Sukhoi Su 30MKI

Super Flanker

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forget 50 they wouldn't even order the 12 aircraft which are needed to replace attrition losses. Defence procurement is a nightmare in this country . For even buying a pen from unit fund approval is needed in the army.
There were no 12 SU-30 MKI Aircrafts lost ,till date only 10 have been lost in Various Accidents. There were Claims that a 11th SU-30 MKI was also lost but the 11th was repaired and put Back to Service in IAF. So only 10 have been lost in Various Accidents.
 

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Hi all, do we have final confirmation on DC-MAWS positioning on Su-30MKI?



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Why don't we use the same 6-axis locations which Su-35-S has used, which is the same as on F-22 & F-35?

DARE's Sub-Optimal MAWS suite installation on Super Su-30MKI-2.jpg
DARE's Sub-Optimal MAWS suite installation on Super Su-30MKI.jpg

Please point out where are MAWS being depicted on this Model of SU-30 MKI? Like show with Arrows or something like that please.
 

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There were no 12 SU-30 MKI Aircrafts lost ,till date only 10 have been lost in Various Accidents. There were Claims that a 11th SU-30 MKI was also lost but the 11th was repaired and put Back to Service in IAF. So only 10 have been lost in Various Accidents.
I am not talking about the number of aircraft lost . I am talking about the order of 12 SU 30s which was supposed to pe placed last year along with 21 Mig 29s
 

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I am not talking about the number of aircraft lost . I am talking about the order of 12 SU 30s which was supposed to pe placed last year along with 21 Mig 29s
You mentioned Attrition Losses so I thought you Mentioned that 12 SU-30s were ordered to replace 12 lost SU-30 MKIs, I guess I mistook what you had said. With regards to that MIG-29 order of 21 units than that has been cancelled:
 

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Hi all, do we have final confirmation on DC-MAWS positioning on Su-30MKI?



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Why don't we use the same 6-axis locations which Su-35-S has used, which is the same as on F-22 & F-35?

IMG_20220128_121606.jpg

Is this Model depicting DRDO SPJ pods or some Russian Pod of Some kind? What is this on the Outer Pylon on of this Model of SU-30 MKI.
@Dark Sorrow mate could you shed some light on This?
 

Dark Sorrow

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View attachment 134358
Is this Model depicting DRDO SPJ pods or some Russian Pod of Some kind? What is this on the Outer Pylon on of this Model of SU-30 MKI.
@Dark Sorrow mate could you shed some light on This?
I don't think it is DRDO SPJ pod. DRDO SPJ pod is designed to be carried under carriage and not on out pylons. Another factor going against why do you need 2. These pods are designed in such a way that only 1 pod suffices, having 2 pods is generally not needed/advised.
It also doesn't look like the High Bandwidth Jammer (HBJ). The image is way too old for it to be HBJ.

1643357081561.png



It appears to be SAP-518 EWSP pods.

1643358326584.png


These pods are the primary reason why DRDO/DARE started development of indigenous SPJ pods.
 
Last edited:

Dark Sorrow

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An old article

EXCLUSIVE: How A Secretive DRDO Lab Is Saving The IAF Su-30MKI



Several layers of biometric security protect one of India’s most secretive military laboratories in Bengaluru, housed in a building where there are unsually low noise levels at all time. It’s an almost modest level of sound for an institution that has put India on a global map for equipment that no country will sell to India without unacceptable conditions. And it is here, at the Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) that the Indian Air Force’s most formidable jet, the Su-30MKI is being given sharper teeth than it has ever had before.


The Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO), the mother body of the DARE, has a rough time dealing with a reputation for waste and delays. To be sure, most criticism it faces is justified. Which is perhaps why it’s always heartening to hear about success. Scientists quietly working behind the scenes on small projects that are truly contributing to the lofty ideal of self-reliance. The story your correspondent reports on today isn’t doing just that — it’s also set to save the Indian Air Force precious capital going into the future.


It all begins with the Russian SAP-518 jammer pod that Moscow supplied with the Su-30MKI. After grappling for years with the pod, the Indian Air Force finally in 2015 realised it simply couldn’t use them for two reasons. One, they were heavy — and when slung onto wingtip hardpoints, they cut into flying envelope like a butcher’s knife.


‘With the Russian pods, the Sukhoi is basically a transport aircraft,’ one of the scientists says.


The second issue is even worse. The IAF realised the SAP-518 pod hadn’t been properly interfacing with the indigenous on-board radar warning receiver (RWR), therefore killing pilots’ chances to exploit both systems fully. While the reasons why the IAF took their time remains unclear (but at one level understandable), DARE stepped in immediately, offering to help. The result is the pod you see those three scientists standing next to in the photograph above.


DARE’s High Band Jammer (HBJ) pod begins dummy carriage trials in six months on an IAF Su-30MKI, with full integration within the year. By 2019, DARE has committed to seeing the pod become fully operational with the IAF’s Flanker fleet.


Significantly, the HBJ pod will be a fully indigenous one. A DARE scientist explains that the HBJ pod currently has three major systems: the integrated EW suite, the active array phased transmit-receive unit and the cooling system. While the first two have been rapidly developed in-house, the complex cooling system is in process, with DARE sourcing an Israeli system for the moment. The team says they’ll have a fully functional Indian cooling system on the HBJ pod before full integration trials by the end of the year.


Better still, the HBJ pod, the scientists tell Livefist, will spawn a family of EW sensors and systems for platforms like the LCA Tejas, MiG-29 and any other fighter the IAF chooses to operate.


The Indian Air Force, which has embraced the wares from DARE more than equipmentfrom most other DRDO labs is expectedly thrilled. An IAF Su-30MKI pilot at the show confirmed that the HBJ pod was a ‘very promising system’ and that ‘more than anything, it is our own in-house development, so I don’t have to run to the Russians if something doesn’t work’.


A DARE scientist associated with the project tells a familiar story: Russia’s unwillingness to share codes (or its insistence on an additional commercial understanding) that could have helped manage the interfacing issues between the SAP-518 pod and Indian RWR better and faster.



Incidentally, the indigenous DARE RWR on the IAF’s Su-30MKIs will also be replaced soon. The lab is in final testing of an all digital RWR (the existing system is analog) christened ‘Dhruti’ that will begin ground testing in May this year, followed by a phased installation across the fleet.


DARE is one of the DRDO’s most low-profile laboratories and also one of its most successful. Its systems populate virtually every combat aircraft currently in service, including missile approach warning systems, mission computers and avionics of every kind.


A final little flourish from the unassuming DARE stand at Aero India is the SIVA pod, a development from the nineties that didn’t quite work out and was quietly abandoned. Recently, scientists dusted out from the corner of a DARE warehouse when a team of scientists suddenly realised they could help the people at BrahMos save a penny on testing the airborne seeker on the BrahMos-A.

With the new DRDL-led imaging and monopulse RF seeker (IMR, for a future variant of the BrahMos) fitted into the Siva pod in a matter of days (the DRDL had tendered out for the integration process), the pod was quickly slung onto a Su-30MKI and sent up for the required airborne tests. It was an immediate success, with BrahMos Corp. sending a special word of thanks to the DARE team. Without that flash of brilliance from DARE, BrahMos would have had to hot-step it to Russia or elsewhere to get a testbed. And the Siva pod would have forever remained a failed relic from DARE’s early days. Instead it is now a valuable, cheap test-bed for high-performance systems.


‘Now we have a very capable in-house testbed capable of testing a variety of electronics and systems in the airborne regime. This is the beginning of a testbed capability that is normally very expensive to hire. It will be finetuned and evolved before being offered as a full-fledged service, perhaps even to foreign customers,’ says a DRDO officer.

 

Super Flanker

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I don't think it is DRDO SPJ pod. DRDO SPJ pod is designed to be carried under carriage and not on out pylons. Another factor going against why do you need 2. These pods are designed in such a way that only 1 pod suffices, having 2 pods is generally not needed/advised.
It also doesn't look like the High Bandwidth Jammer (HBJ). The image is way too old for it to be HBJ.

View attachment 134361


It appears to be SAP-518 EWSP pods.

View attachment 134362

These pods are the primary reason why DRDO/DARE started development of indigenous SPJ pods.
Thank you for the Detailed Answer but have you noticed how in this Model the Pod seems to be sticking Below the Outer Pylon of the SU-30 MKI? And not right on the Outer Pylon like the one in which you have sent.
IMG_20220128_141013.jpg
IMG_20220128_141037.jpg
IMG_20220128_121606.jpg

Look at the way it is Attached to the Outer Pylon and look at the way it is in the picture you have sent, they are different from each other.
1643358326584.png

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Super Flanker

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I don't think it is DRDO SPJ pod. DRDO SPJ pod is designed to be carried under carriage and not on out pylons. Another factor going against why do you need 2. These pods are designed in such a way that only 1 pod suffices, having 2 pods is generally not needed/advised.
It also doesn't look like the High Bandwidth Jammer (HBJ). The image is way too old for it to be HBJ.

View attachment 134361


It appears to be SAP-518 EWSP pods.

View attachment 134362

These pods are the primary reason why DRDO/DARE started development of indigenous SPJ pods.
I have heard that Pylon mounted Jammers have lower coverage. Is This true?
 

Dark Sorrow

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Thank you for the Detailed Answer but have you noticed how in this Model the Pod seems to be sticking Below the Outer Pylon of the SU-30 MKI? And not right on the Outer Pylon like the one in which you have sent.View attachment 134365View attachment 134366View attachment 134367
Look at the way it is Attached to the Outer Pylon and look at the way it is in the picture you have sent, they are different from each other.
View attachment 134368
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In MKI anything attached to outer pylon is attached underneath the and not on the side edge of outer pylon. This is true for all Su-30s.

I think because of the angle of photograph it seems to on edge.

Another possibility is for sake of construction of model they attached the pods on side edge.
 

Dark Sorrow

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I have heard that Pylon mounted Jammers have lower coverage. Is This true?
Compared to under carriage jammers, Pylon mounted jammers have its own advantages and disadvantages.
Pylon mounted jammers have size and form-factor limitation. They might even have power limitation depending on aircraft.
These factors limit the transmission power and to some extent receive capability compared to under carriage jammers.
Pylon mounted jammers tend to have higher lateral azimuth and have less inference from the host aircraft compared to under carriage jammers.
As for Pylon mounted jammers have lower coverage; that depends upon your definition of coverage.
 

Super Flanker

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In MKI anything attached to outer pylon is attached underneath the and not on the side edge of outer pylon. This is true for all Su-30s.

I think because of the angle of photograph it seems to on edge.

Another possibility is for sake of construction of model they attached the pods on side edge.
Well I have seen SU-30 MKIs Carry some Pods on the edge of their Outer Pylons many times so not really sure about this claim of yours really. I agree with the rest.
Compared to under carriage jammers, Pylon mounted jammers have its own advantages and disadvantages.
Pylon mounted jammers have size and form-factor limitation. They might even have power limitation depending on aircraft.
These factors limit the transmission power and to some extent receive capability compared to under carriage jammers.
Pylon mounted jammers tend to have higher lateral azimuth and have less inference from the host aircraft compared to under carriage jammers.
As for Pylon mounted jammers have lower coverage; that depends upon your definition of coverage.
I agree with you. Thank you very much for the Information!
 

Super Flanker

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N011M BARS hybrid PESA radar of Su-30MKI/MKM. Surprisingly i’ve never come across this image before. Thats Tomcat’s AWG-9 level behemoth radar. Impressive work knowing Soviet/Russians couldn’t crack what Americans did with F-22A’s APG-77 radar using gallium arsenide (GaAs) TRMs.
 

Dark Sorrow

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Well I have seen SU-30 MKIs Carry some Pods on the edge of their Outer Pylons many times so not really sure about this claim of yours really.
Can you share some images where by SU-30 MKIs Carry some pods on the edge of their Outer Pylons instead of under the outer pylons.
 

Super Flanker

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Can you share some images where by SU-30 MKIs Carry some pods on the edge of their Outer Pylons instead of under the outer pylons.
Here are some pictures of SU-30 MKI carrying various types of Pods on the Edge of their Outer Pylon, maybe one of these you might think is not on the edge of the Pylon but I can assure it is:-
IMG_20220128_233506.jpg

IMG_20220128_233659.jpg
IMG_20220128_233710.jpg
IMG_20220128_233723.jpg
 

Super Flanker

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In MKI anything attached to outer pylon is attached underneath the and not on the side edge of outer pylon. This is true for all Su-30s.

I think because of the angle of photograph it seems to on edge.

Another possibility is for sake of construction of model they attached the pods on side edge.
Could you share images of SU-30 MKI with Pods underneath the Outer Pylon?

Because till date I have never seen any kind of Picture of a SU-30 MKI with any kind of Pod on underneath its outer pylon. All I have seen is pods on the edge of Outer Pylon and undercarriage. But not under the outer pylon so if you have a pic please share here. Thank you.
 

Dark Sorrow

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Could you share images of SU-30 MKI with Pods underneath the Outer Pylon?

Because till date I have never seen any kind of Picture of a SU-30 MKI with any kind of Pod on underneath its outer pylon. All I have seen is pods on the edge of Outer Pylon and undercarriage. But not under the outer pylon so if you have a pic please share here. Thank you.
I am looking for some high resolution images. In the images I have, things are not clear.

1643395597190.png


1643395690973.png


1643395703797.png


In the images above one can see the hard-point railing for outer pylon is under wing.
 

Super Flanker

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I am looking for some high resolution images. In the images I have, things are not clear.

View attachment 134457

View attachment 134458

View attachment 134459

In the images above one can see the hard-point railing for outer pylon is under wing.
See the Pictures you have quoted here saying that these are pictures of SU-30 MKI carrying pods Underneath their Outer Pylon are not true. The pictures you have sent are showing SU-30 MKI with R-73 Missiles traning Round. I am talking about Pods and not Missiles and by the way the pics of SU-30 MKI you have sent carrying R-73 are not even Real R-73! These are Training versions of R-73 which you can come to know by its black strips and Absence of fins.
 

Super Flanker

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@Dark Sorrow I guess there is only one conclusion that we can derive here and that is:

  • SU-30 MKI don't carry any kind of Pod underneath their Outer Pylon.
  • They always carry them on the edge of the Outer Pylon or under the Carriage of the Flanker's body.
 

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