Sukhoi PAK FA

Steven Rogers

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@Steven Rogers
NAL Saras is a mere 4-5 ton aircraft. It 's prototype is powered by P&w turboprop engine 1200 hp class. Since you didn't read the document clearly let me post the specification of engine to tested (page 16 of the pdf):

View attachment 21164

Also for engine nozzle design and thrust vectoring technology GTRE is collaborating with IIT Bombay, Madras,Kanpur,IISC etc apart from Russian's where only a JV is signed with Klimov (no details of any work progress just like PAK-FA). This is the broad specification of the engine on which work is initiated. Keeping overweight issues of Kaveri in the past weight is on the higher side on the design stage itself to allow for room to manuver.
Disscusion on Kaveri engine in DFI : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/kaveri-engine.5097/page-73
idrw article : http://idrw.org/how-90kn-kaveri-and-125kn-kaveri-engine-projects-will-be-game-changer-for-india/
Hence I suggest you to read and then comment. How on early did you get the idea of 130 Kn turbojet engine powering tiny NAL Saras?
Pardon me I didn't meant for NAL SARAs But HAL SAGAR sea plane...... By the idrw link is just an assumption..and yeah IIT and IISc are collaboration with drdo for the "laboratory " not for designing and developing a gas turbine from scratch which boosts 130kN thrust.
 
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shuvo@y2k10

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Pardon me I didn't meant for NAL SARAs But HAL SAGAR sea plane...... By the idrw link is just an assumption..and yeah IIT and IISc are collaboration with drdo for the "laboratory " not for designing and developing a gas turbine from scratch which boosts 130kN thrust.
Don't misquote me. I said IIT/IISC collaborating with gtre on thrust vectoring and engine nozzle technology. If you have any experience on working on a sponsored project in IIT then you will know DRDO sponsors many project to increase it knowledge and skill base but it doesn't mean that IIT will design the end product which is DRDO's responsibility.In other words IIT cannot replace DRDO and can only collaborate in developing technologies some of it will find it's way to end product which will be inducted in the armed forces.
 

Steven Rogers

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Don't misquote me. I said IIT/IISC collaborating with gtre on thrust vectoring and engine nozzle technology. If you have any experience on working on a sponsored project in IIT then you will know DRDO sponsors many project to increase it knowledge and skill base but it doesn't mean that IIT will design the end product which is DRDO's responsibility.In other words IIT cannot replace DRDO and can only collaborate in developing technologies some of it will find it's way to end product which will be inducted in the armed forces.
Exactly for research and knowledge... GTRE is responsible for development of engine.

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WolfPack86

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THIS IS WHAT THE RUSSIANS HAVE TO SAY ON THE FGFA PROGRAM
Russian-Indian development of 5th-generation fighter jet goes according to plan

MOSCOW:
Russia and India continue their joint project to develop the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), the press office of Russia’s state arms seller Rosoboronexport said on Tuesday.

Defense News earlier reported citing a report by the command of the Indian Air Force that the plane being developed on the basis of the Russian Su-57 fifth-generation fighter jet did not meet desired stealth features. Besides, in the opinion of Indian Air Force officials, the fifth-generation fighter aircraft does not have a modular engine concept, which makes maintenance and serviceability of the fleet expensive. That is why, they proposed to the Indian authorities to get out of the Russian-Indian FGFA program, Defense News reported.

"Currently, the Russian-Indian inter-governmental agreement is in effect; there are commitments, under which the parties are implementing the joint project for developing the 5th-generation plane in accordance with the agreed stages and time limits," Rosoboronexport said.

The agreement on the FGFA project was signed in 2007. In early May, a source in India’s Defense Ministry told the Indian news agency PTI that a contract on the development of a detailed project of the new fighter jet would be signed in the second half of 2017.

In spring, Russian officials announced that Russia was fully implementing its obligations under the project and expected a decision by the Indian side.

The Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) is being developed on the basis of the Russian Su-57 plane in compliance with the technical requirements set by the Indian side. The Indian Air Force is expected to be the initial customer of this plane, after which these aircraft are planned to be exported to third countries.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/10/this-is-what-russians-have-to-say-on.html

 

Scarface

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Again do you have a technical background or education to make calls on core technology components? I do, so stop embarrassing yourself like a script kiddie and do some research. Kopp's APA documents called for hearing in Australia's parliament. Nearly everything he predicted has been proven as true. You and your wannabe playmates couldn't even tell how angular symmetry correlates to L band detection in a set region varies with altitude.

http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2012/pdf/dod/2012f35jsf.pdf
www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/...Affairs.../~/.../e02.pdf

Your rant about F 35 shows you have no idea about timeline. Back in 2008 when report surfaced US F 22 program manufactured jets. This was a lobbying attempt to get a mature solution than a half baked immature platform. Then production stopped in 2012 so debate is now on price negotiation.

US influence inevitably ends up erasing indigenous cultural heritage of the ally nation and neuters them to a vassal status. E.g: Baseball popularity in Japan, S. Korea, K Pop, Anime,etc. India must swim away from this shark so that we can become a global power in 2025-ish without US support and reliance. They have managed to infiltrate the SC through that snake D.Y.Chandrachud.

US shills have started popping up in this forum recently to sway public opinion towards globalist establish and subjugate us through soft power. US will always be treated like an outsider so let your liberal friends know about this and burn on the inside.

With HAL backing and GoI leaning towards FGFA IAF dalals will have blue balls this government. Stick with your
congi Pappu in the hopes this 'rebranding' exercise may make us pity vote for him! :laugh:
Australian Parliament will hear out anyone.You can submit suggestions online itself.Carlo Kopp got laughed at in the Australian Parliament when the Australian Air Force official called him out on being a looney and his thesis being based on assumptions about things he does not have knowledge of due to those things being classified.He was literally called out for being a "hobby analyst with no real military insight"

Not my words,those are senior Royal Australian Air Force officers.

U.S influence kills the culture of those who have weak cultures.India has it's own cultures in place to counter their influence.We have our sports like Hockey,We have our own Bollywood.

Where the Koreans were weak in culture they died,where the Koreans were strong they still exist.K-pop is influencing America,it is not an example of US influence,Similiarly Anime,the Americans despise Anime fanboys referring to them as Weaboos.Thats an example of Japanese culture influencing America not the other way around.

The Americans cannot influence anyone because their own culture is weak.

You are borderline illiterate when it comes t geopolitics and cultures.You should stop embarassing yourself.


They Americans are also allied with many European countries like Britain,France but those countries usually consider Americans uncultured because they have strong homegrown cultures like us.

Your delusions and dreams about India becoming a Russian sattelite state can stay.
This current government is the doing the best thing we can hope geopolitically which is clear alignment to the US,the signing of LSA with U.S,Buying their drones,Getting entry into MTCR with US help.

You and your Kremlin toadie allies can close your eyes and pretend it isn't happening as much as you want.The ground realities won't change.

And the biggest irony is your favorite liberal congress opposed the LSA by saying pur relations with Russia will be soured.

Kremlin propagandists should realize pappu is their only hope , and even historically right wing parties have supported US alignment and commies like the New Gandhis have preferred their commie brethren in Soviet Union and now Russia.
 

Spectribution

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Australian Parliament will hear out anyone.You can submit suggestions online itself.Carlo Kopp got laughed at in the Australian Parliament when the Australian Air Force official called him out on being a looney and his thesis being based on assumptions about things he does not have knowledge of due to those things being classified.He was literally called out for being a "hobby analyst with no real military insight"

Not my words,those are senior Royal Australian Air Force officers.

U.S influence kills the culture of those who have weak cultures.India has it's own cultures in place to counter their influence.We have our sports like Hockey,We have our own Bollywood.

Where the Koreans were weak in culture they died,where the Koreans were strong they still exist.K-pop is influencing America,it is not an example of US influence,Similiarly Anime,the Americans despise Anime fanboys referring to them as Weaboos.Thats an example of Japanese culture influencing America not the other way around.

The Americans cannot influence anyone because their own culture is weak.

You are borderline illiterate when it comes t geopolitics and cultures.You should stop embarassing yourself.


They Americans are also allied with many European countries like Britain,France but those countries usually consider Americans uncultured because they have strong homegrown cultures like us.

Your delusions and dreams about India becoming a Russian sattelite state can stay.
This current government is the doing the best thing we can hope geopolitically which is clear alignment to the US,the signing of LSA with U.S,Buying their drones,Getting entry into MTCR with US help.

You and your Kremlin toadie allies can close your eyes and pretend it isn't happening as much as you want.The ground realities won't change.

And the biggest irony is your favorite liberal congress opposed the LSA by saying pur relations with Russia will be soured.

Kremlin propagandists should realize pappu is their only hope , and even historically right wing parties have supported US alignment and commies like the New Gandhis have preferred their commie brethren in Soviet Union and now Russia.
Carlo Kopp pretty much predicted all the fallacies with F 35 long before they emerged with reports in media and official US government press releases. F 35 currently has critical parts shortage and maintenance backlog.
It also raises questions about kinematic survivability in a 21st century setting when countermeasures to stealth and jammers will be widely available.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-270312-1.html
http://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...ustainment-problems-affecting-f-35-readiness/

I advocated for a non aligned India with respect to international affairs. In Cold War we lived under shadow of Soviet Union. 1990s was a slap to reality for us. We realised that only India stands for India. US changes allies like a chameleon changes colour. Even Tillerson was pressuring us to close embassy in N.Korea because Trump Kim twitter war was causing tensions. If you call this an equal partnership, I have a Taj Mahal to sell you.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-swaraj-to-tillerson/articleshow/61228739.cms

If you go through my posts, nearly all seed tech from Arihant to GSLV came from Russians. Russians have pure greed and want $$$ for tech. US demands loyalty and $$$ for tech. Leaning too heavily towards one side will result in India becoming the next Japan, neutered and complacent. Their race of nu-males will be their undoing. From a country of warriors to one of anime loving sissies.

US has control of global media, fashion trends, cinema, food, lifestyle, gaming, technology and spiritual trends. Even as recently as 1990s ******s were an exception, today either you accept and emulate their behavior or die.
Liberals are trying desperately to import this cultural filth to our next generation. Watch Ola ad released recently.
A dyke tries to hurriedly justify ******ry between a sardar and another ******. Paedophilia is next.

Liberals like radical Islam believe in taqiyya or projection. What they believe in they will project. ANTIFA claims to fight fascism despite supporting a One World Government aka a 'Proletariat Dictatorship'. Similarly you want India to turn into a US client state and never become a global power in her own right. I like tech transfer from all directions and not just lean in one direction.

P.S: You are probably a commerce or law graduate liberal with no technical knowledge or background but a conceited sense of self gratification smug. Pan global nationalist wave will turn your lot into a relic of the past my dear Congi.
 

gadeshi

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One of the most precise Sukhoi/KnAAPO insider known under forums nick Azokhen Vay was accused for treason and secret information sell attempt (Su-57 tests data) to foreign citizen.
He has been fired from KnAAZ aircraft factory and accused for 4.5 years of prison + 1 year of moving freedom restrictions.
Very sad event for us all :( :
https://kms.city/accident/treason.html

 

Kay

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One of the most precise Sukhoi/KnAAPO insider known under forums nick Azokhen Vay was accused for treason and secret information sell attempt (Su-57 tests data) to foreign citizen.
He has been fired from KnAAZ aircraft factory and accused for 4.5 years of prison + 1 year of moving freedom restrictions.
Very sad event for us all :( :
https://kms.city/accident/treason.html

Which country did he sell information to?
 

Rahul Prakash

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Australian Parliament will hear out anyone.You can submit suggestions online itself.Carlo Kopp got laughed at in the Australian Parliament when the Australian Air Force official called him out on being a looney and his thesis being based on assumptions about things he does not have knowledge of due to those things being classified.He was literally called out for being a "hobby analyst with no real military insight"

Not my words,those are senior Royal Australian Air Force officers.

U.S influence kills the culture of those who have weak cultures.India has it's own cultures in place to counter their influence.We have our sports like Hockey,We have our own Bollywood.

Where the Koreans were weak in culture they died,where the Koreans were strong they still exist.K-pop is influencing America,it is not an example of US influence,Similiarly Anime,the Americans despise Anime fanboys referring to them as Weaboos.Thats an example of Japanese culture influencing America not the other way around.

The Americans cannot influence anyone because their own culture is weak.

You are borderline illiterate when it comes t geopolitics and cultures.You should stop embarassing yourself.


They Americans are also allied with many European countries like Britain,France but those countries usually consider Americans uncultured because they have strong homegrown cultures like us.

Your delusions and dreams about India becoming a Russian sattelite state can stay.
This current government is the doing the best thing we can hope geopolitically which is clear alignment to the US,the signing of LSA with U.S,Buying their drones,Getting entry into MTCR with US help.

You and your Kremlin toadie allies can close your eyes and pretend it isn't happening as much as you want.The ground realities won't change.

And the biggest irony is your favorite liberal congress opposed the LSA by saying pur relations with Russia will be soured.

Kremlin propagandists should realize pappu is their only hope , and even historically right wing parties have supported US alignment and commies like the New Gandhis have preferred their commie brethren in Soviet Union and now Russia.
I don't think any country can withstand not being influenced by us culture for a long time if they are friends with it.what makes India so special.

I hate it when India is just reduced to democracy.india is much more than that.democracy is just a way to choose our rulers and nothing more.for USA it is a religion.if tommorow our culture comes in the way of democracy USA will gladly destroy it.china does not want us to be a superpower but it is atleast a civilizational state.india should be a civilizational state instead of a meaningless market that any alien can be part of.
 

Anirbann Datta

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may be chidichor chinnes? all they khow is to steal and then Crtl+C> Crtl+V
 

gadeshi

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may be chidichor chinnes? all they khow is to steal and then Crtl+C> Crtl+V
May be, but Chinese have gone MiG 1.46 way accepting its scheme and concept.
This concept is totally different from those for T-50, so those flight tests data will not be really useful.
Chinese may be very interested in MWBs and FSBs internal layout and construction info and in air intake construction / stealth measures data as well, but no info about this data was attempted to sell is revealed.

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shuvo@y2k10

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My personal opinion is that we should drop the FGFA partnership with Russia and invest money in a indegeneous design of a heavy class fighter.
Suggestion is that we could develop the 3B01 model of AMCA into our desi heavy class FGFA (which is not selected for AMCA) but a lot of aerodynamic simulation and wind tunnel testing has been done on that. This will save a lot of money and we can develop 2 fifth gen fighters at the price of 1.Both these projects can be handled by the AMCA team which has already finalised the 3B-08 model and is building a full scale 1:1 mock up version in the next 1 year.
The engine can be the upgraded version of the 130 KN thrust engine which is under developement and whose tender for testing facilities is out.

hwyIJgs.png
3 B01.JPG
220px-Medium_combat_aircraft.jpg
MediumCombatAircraft1.JPG
 

Armand2REP

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One of the most precise Sukhoi/KnAAPO insider known under forums nick Azokhen Vay was accused for treason and secret information sell attempt (Su-57 tests data) to foreign citizen.
He didn't attempt to do it, he has already handed over the materials and they are out in the open. The Su-57 is compromised as they will most certainly be going to China. India needs to get out now as the materials lost included testing data.
 

Spectribution

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Guy got caught in a sting operation. Russians aren't that stupid, just greedy. 'Attempted to sell' not 'leak' or 'sent'.
Read between lines.
 

Armand2REP

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Guy got caught in a sting operation. Russians aren't that stupid, just greedy. 'Attempted to sell' not 'leak' or 'sent'.
Read between lines.
Or you could actually read the lines... "and subsequently handed them over to a representative of a foreign state."
 

Spectribution

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My personal opinion is that we should drop the FGFA partnership with Russia and invest money in a indegeneous design of a heavy class fighter.
Suggestion is that we could develop the 3B01 model of AMCA into our desi heavy class FGFA (which is not selected for AMCA) but a lot of aerodynamic simulation and wind tunnel testing has been done on that. This will save a lot of money and we can develop 2 fifth gen fighters at the price of 1.Both these projects can be handled by the AMCA team which has already finalised the 3B-08 model and is building a full scale 1:1 mock up version in the next 1 year.
The engine can be the upgraded version of the 130 KN thrust engine which is under developement and whose tender for testing facilities is out.

View attachment 21417 View attachment 21418 View attachment 21419 View attachment 21420
India struggles to make Tejas MK1A and you want AMCA! If you throw a stone at the moon, it will probably come back and hit you on your face!
 

shuvo@y2k10

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India struggles to make Tejas MK1A and you want AMCA! If you throw a stone at the moon, it will probably come back and hit you on your face!
Don't post stupid quotes just to belittle the performance of our indegeneous Tejas or AMCA aircraft. As far as Tejas is concerned it has almost reached FOC standard and is much ahead as a 4++ generation fighters than those obsolete 50-60 years old F-16 and Gripen single engine fighters whose sale to IAF is being hugely pursued by our arm's lobby.
As far as AMCA and FGFA aircraft is concerned it is our future investment and if indeed we pull out of the the program as it has failed to meet IAF PSQR we should have an indegeneous heavy fighter option of the class of Su-30mki. My post was about exploring those indegeneous options.
With 6 billiion dollar R&D investment(which Russians are asking) in the Indian aviation sector we can have 2-3 fifth gen fighters,AURA as well as our own stealth bombers apart from Kaveri and its future derivatives. We should not repeat the mistake of the 70s when our HF-24 marut program was shelved leading the decades lost in indegeneous aviation capability.Had that programme been continied we would have a number of indegeneous 3rd and 4th generation fighters namely HF-25, ASF-300 etc (HAL designs which were pitched to IAF) and not just Tejas and AMCA would have been inducted in the IAF by now.
 

Steven Rogers

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My personal opinion is that we should drop the FGFA partnership with Russia and invest money in a indegeneous design of a heavy class fighter.
Suggestion is that we could develop the 3B01 model of AMCA into our desi heavy class FGFA (which is not selected for AMCA) but a lot of aerodynamic simulation and wind tunnel testing has been done on that. This will save a lot of money and we can develop 2 fifth gen fighters at the price of 1.Both these projects can be handled by the AMCA team which has already finalised the 3B-08 model and is building a full scale 1:1 mock up version in the next 1 year.
The engine can be the upgraded version of the 130 KN thrust engine which is under developement and whose tender for testing facilities is out.

View attachment 21417 View attachment 21418 View attachment 21419 View attachment 21420
1:1 model was scheduled for completion November 2017, as per Aero India.

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