Sukhoi PAK FA

[Scarface]

The US WILL NEVER give India ToT on F 35. They want a massive bulk order ~ 100 F 35A and will then put kill switch and spyware on the systems. Even for future upgrades we must bend over for them. With their dominance liberal filth will pervade military and destroy our fighting capability.

Russia gives a no strings attached, money for tech deal. Actually cost will be cheaper as US will push R&D prices on India to fleece us.

US knows it can't do zilch in Asia and they are FORCED to work with us to put pressure on China. Russia will give us critical tech for next to nothing as they need $$$ more than US. Thus for an ecosystem for R&D we must side with Russia and for countering China geostrategically, we must ally with US in Asia. On whole we must be neutral.

Ah yes the ToT,
Which the Russians are ever ready to provide.
Except they are not.The Russians just make big claims and end up making us assemble the aircraft from knocked down kits.
The only difference is Americans say no to our face and the Russians dupe us.

We've been flying Russian frontline fighters for ages and if the Russians had parted with any critical tech our Tejas would be flying now.

As far as kill switches/spyware are concerned,you are a victim of sputnik propaganda.If the US is capable of it then so are the Russians and I am pretty sure neither are willing.Bad for business.

To this date there is no official record of a killswitch used in any US defence equipment.

You cannot play a duplicitous game like being a defence partner of Russia and geopolitical partner of America.That would be utter stupidity.

The defence equipment your purchase from Russia would not sit well with the US, and when you support the US in geopolitical issues like sanctions etc. Russians will be pissed and less likely to sell us weapons because they may perceive us as US ally.

You always have to pick a side.

 

[IndianHawk]

Ah yes the ToT,
Which the Russians are ever ready to provide.
Except they are not.The Russians just make big claims and end up making us assemble the aircraft from knocked down kits.
The only difference is Americans say no to our face and the Russians dupe us.

We've been flying Russian frontline fighters for ages and if the Russians had parted with any critical tech our Tejas would be flying now.

As far as kill switches/spyware are concerned,you are a victim of sputnik propaganda.If the US is capable of it then so are the Russians and I am pretty sure neither are willing.Bad for business.

To this date there is no official record of a killswitch used in any US defence equipment.

You cannot play a duplicitous game like being a defence partner of Russia and geopolitical partner of America.That would be utter stupidity.

The defence equipment your purchase from Russia would not sit well with the US, and when you support the US in geopolitical issues like sanctions etc. Russians will be pissed and less likely to sell us weapons because they may perceive us as US ally.

You always have to pick a side.

Very well said and now add this

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/11...recipient-of-chinese-foreign-aid-north-korea/

Russian are the largest recepient of chinese aid !! They are literally sleeping with our enemy.

 

[Vinod DX9]

So there is nothing like "Kill Switch "?

 

[Scarface]

So there is nothing like "Kill Switch "?

If there was it certainly would have been used when Pakistan helped the Arabs in both wars against America's favorite Israel to destroy their US equipment in case it gets used against Israel.

It is largely Russian propaganda.

 

[IndianHawk]

So there is nothing like "Kill Switch "?

It's a joke mostly. Using a kill switch means loosing reputation as an arms vendor forever. What USA uses generally is denial of spares at certain times. But these can be stocked up .
Russian can do the same.
It all depends on end game. Making India an enemy is not the American endgame so as long china is there.

 

[Spectribution]

Ah yes the ToT,
Which the Russians are ever ready to provide.
Except they are not.The Russians just make big claims and end up making us assemble the aircraft from knocked down kits.
The only difference is Americans say no to our face and the Russians dupe us.

We've been flying Russian frontline fighters for ages and if the Russians had parted with any critical tech our Tejas would be flying now.

As far as kill switches/spyware are concerned,you are a victim of sputnik propaganda.If the US is capable of it then so are the Russians and I am pretty sure neither are willing.Bad for business.

To this date there is no official record of a killswitch used in any US defence equipment.

You cannot play a duplicitous game like being a defence partner of Russia and geopolitical partner of America.That would be utter stupidity.

The defence equipment your purchase from Russia would not sit well with the US, and when you support the US in geopolitical issues like sanctions etc. Russians will be pissed and less likely to sell us weapons because they may perceive us as US ally.

You always have to pick a side.

Russia gives us tech no strings attached.If we had received no tech there would have been no PSLV,GSLV,ATV,INS ARIHANT, KOLKATA CLASS, BRAHMOS,etc.

FGFA is not a mature product which is why we must wait till 2021 ish for Mk II with Item 30 engine and L band AESA radars. F 35 is a US product which is not as good as F 22 in dogfighting. FGFA is. In future we will face J 20 with WS 15X engines and then we have to beg USA for AEFT engine to compete. US will simply milk us and we cannot use their equipment without relying on spares which come from half a world away. Regarding 'Kill Switch' a simple 'Software Upgrade' in a sub component can screw the F 35's ALIS maintenance and interface system as we have NO ACCESS to source code.

Russia also has loyalty while US changes allies by the TV shows it produces. Thus we must stay invested in FGFA if we want a modern viable 5th gen fighter for which we gain ToT as well.

Regarding Tejas, your argument shows how little you know about defence acquisition and technology. We had a cancelled deal with Lockheed during late 90s because of nuke tests. They put sanctions on us. A very bad precedent to rely on major ToT. Maybe with bits and pieces like in EMALS but not whole environments like FGFA.

Your ToI level insight into geostrategic affairs is insulting for a DFI member. Today USA is no longer numero uno. We just have them as most dominant militarily and economically. By mid 2030s that may change if democrats can take power for 8+ years again. Thus investing in multiple allies helps greatly in the long run.

We allied secretly with Israel in late 90s during Kargil after they gave us laser guided bombs and 155mm shells for IAF and IA respectively. Today we have LRASM Barak 8, Barak 8 ER, MF STAR AESA, SPYDER, HERON series drones, ELTA 2052 AESA just because we were friendly to them. Russia has been a brother to us.

In 1971 we would have been scuppered had it not been for them. Please read up on defence articles more before you post as it reflects badly on the forum's quality.

 

[Spectribution]

https://www.defensenews.com/air/201...pitches-souped-up-version-of-the-f-35-engine/

F 35 engine growth 1.0 further reading.

 

[Scarface]

Russia gives us tech no strings attached.If we had received no tech there would have been no PSLV,GSLV,ATV,INS ARIHANT, KOLKATA CLASS, BRAHMOS,etc.

FGFA is not a mature product which is why we must wait till 2021 ish for Mk II with Item 30 engine and L band AESA radars. F 35 is a US product which is not as good as F 22 in dogfighting. FGFA is. In future we will face J 20 with WS 15X engines and then we have to beg USA for AEFT engine to compete. US will simply milk us and we cannot use their equipment without relying on spares which come from half a world away. Regarding 'Kill Switch' a simple 'Software Upgrade' in a sub component can screw the F 35's ALIS maintenance and interface system as we have NO ACCESS to source code.

Russia also has loyalty while US changes allies by the TV shows it produces. Thus we must stay invested in FGFA if we want a modern viable 5th gen fighter for which we gain ToT as well.

Regarding Tejas, your argument shows how little you know about defence acquisition and technology. We had a cancelled deal with Lockheed during late 90s because of nuke tests. They put sanctions on us. A very bad precedent to rely on major ToT. Maybe with bits and pieces like in EMALS but not whole environments like FGFA.

Your ToI level insight into geostrategic affairs is insulting for a DFI member. Today USA is no longer numero uno. We just have them as most dominant militarily and economically. By mid 2030s that may change if democrats can take power for 8+ years again. Thus investing in multiple allies helps greatly in the long run.

We allied secretly with Israel in late 90s during Kargil after they gave us laser guided bombs and 155mm shells for IAF and IA respectively. Today we have LRASM Barak 8, Barak 8 ER, MF STAR AESA, SPYDER, HERON series drones, ELTA 2052 AESA just because we were friendly to them. Russia has been a brother to us.

In 1971 we would have been scuppered had it not been for them. Please read up on defence articles more before you post as it reflects badly on the forum's quality.

All of those would have been possible without the Russians.Hell Russians still have technology reserved in Brahmos which we cannot make indigenously.The fact that they exist shows that the Russians didn't help us with jack shit,Russians have been operating SSBNs for decades and the fact that we only just yet got ours shows that.It would not have taken us so long had they been so brotherly with us.Don't give credit which is due to our Scientists to the Russians just because of your delusions

FGFA is a dead end project which is far from a 5th Gen fighter with RCS (according to the most pro-Russian source) matches that of 4.5th Gen Eurocanards which is embarassing for a 5th Gen fighter,meanwhile F-35 actually has a future

What the US did to us is irrelevant since fools like you who are high on Kremlin propaganda in Congress allied us with the Soviets/Russians despite America helping us more and when we needed it more.Now we have a party with a sober foreign policy in power and they are fixing our mistakes.

What did our brother Russia do when the US sanctioned us,they could have ignored the US sanctions and helped us with Tejas,did they ? NO,The project slowed down drastically and no one helped us.

There is no evidence of US killing any of their defence equipment even when they wanted to because they could not.Stop spreading Russian propaganda.

I don't care if the US is numero uno or not.They have something we need and we have something they need and our interests align.

And I must say Russians have loyalty was the funniest thing I have read.The Russians are for sale to the highest bidder and the highest bidder is China.You are ignoring the very large evidence about how brotherly Russians are stabbing us in the back.They are living on Chinese aid.

As far as my knowledge about Defence and Geopolitics is concerned it exceeds far beyond anyone who has been duped by Kremlin Propaganda or someone who is a Kremlin shill which includes you.

And as far as favours are concerned we are much more in debt to the Americans than Russians.In 1962 when the Soviet mouthpiece newspapers were saying India is at fault in the India -China war,The US despite us being in the Soviet camp sent the USS Kitty Hawk to help us,USAF actually flew sorties and dropped supplies to our troops , involving them directly in the war.

It was their international clout and especially among the Arab and Gulf nations that put pressure on China to withdraw back to McMahon Line set by the British or we would have lost massive amount of territory in NEFA which is now known to the common Indian as Arunachal Pradesh giving a big blow to India's territorial integrity

Unlike the Soviets who just sent their subs to trail the US 7th fleet,not even a blockade attempt.

But you wouldn't know this , because the Congressi education system does not tell you this.Because Kremlins toadies have buried this fact and have lauded their actions in 1971 only.

Don't talk about other people's knowledge when all your knowledge is comes from Russian propaganda like RT,Sputnik

However this is rather off topic , won't be surprised if this conversation gets shifted by mods

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Moving away from Russian dependence should not mean moving towards american arms dependence. Indegenization is the future and projects like Tejas mk2, AMCA should be promoted and projects like FGFA, SE F16 should be junked at all cost.

 

[Spectribution]

All of those would have been possible without the Russians.Hell Russians still have technology reserved in Brahmos which we cannot make indigenously.The fact that they exist shows that the Russians didn't help us with jack shit,Russians have been operating SSBNs for decades and the fact that we only just yet got ours shows that.It would not have taken us so long had they been so brotherly with us.Don't give credit which is due to our Scientists to the Russians just because of your delusions

FGFA is a dead end project which is far from a 5th Gen fighter with RCS (according to the most pro-Russian source) matches that of 4.5th Gen Eurocanards which is embarassing for a 5th Gen fighter,meanwhile F-35 actually has a future

What the US did to us is irrelevant since fools like you who are high on Kremlin propaganda in Congress allied us with the Soviets/Russians despite America helping us more and when we needed it more.Now we have a party with a sober foreign policy in power and they are fixing our mistakes.

What did our brother Russia do when the US sanctioned us,they could have ignored the US sanctions and helped us with Tejas,did they ? NO,The project slowed down drastically and no one helped us.

There is no evidence of US killing any of their defence equipment even when they wanted to because they could not.Stop spreading Russian propaganda.

I don't care if the US is numero uno or not.They have something we need and we have something they need and our interests align.

And I must say Russians have loyalty was the funniest thing I have read.The Russians are for sale to the highest bidder and the highest bidder is China.You are ignoring the very large evidence about how brotherly Russians are stabbing us in the back.They are living on Chinese aid.

As far as my knowledge about Defence and Geopolitics is concerned it exceeds far beyond anyone who has been duped by Kremlin Propaganda or someone who is a Kremlin shill which includes you.

And as far as favours are concerned we are much more in debt to the Americans than Russians.In 1962 when the Soviet mouthpiece newspapers were saying India is at fault in the India -China war,The US despite us being in the Soviet camp sent the USS Kitty Hawk to help us,USAF actually flew sorties and dropped supplies to our troops , involving them directly in the war.

It was their international clout and especially among the Arab and Gulf nations that put pressure on China to withdraw back to McMahon Line set by the British or we would have lost massive amount of territory in NEFA which is now known to the common Indian as Arunachal Pradesh giving a big blow to India's territorial integrity

Unlike the Soviets who just sent their subs to trail the US 7th fleet,not even a blockade attempt.

But you wouldn't know this , because the Congressi education system does not tell you this.Because Kremlins toadies have buried this fact and have lauded their actions in 1971 only.

Don't talk about other people's knowledge when all your knowledge is comes from Russian propaganda like RT,Sputnik

However this is rather off topic , won't be surprised if this conversation gets shifted by mods

The US will NEVER India F 35 without taking a massive pound of flesh. They will make us a vassal like S. Korea and Japan and will interfere in our nuclear program in the name of 'non proliferation.' They tried once, they will try again as they did. The US government ideology swings like the mood swings of a PMSing woman.

F 35 is a half baked cookie in it's current stage.

https://gizmodo.com/the-f-35-amazingly-has-even-more-problems-than-we-thoug-1791285476

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-f-35-14-trillion-dollar-national-disaster-19985

Even Israel is having second thoughts on this subject.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/israel-begins-doubt-capability-new-f-35-fighter-jets/

FGFA is required for India as it has a much better Kinematic and radar set compared to F 35. It's RCS is 4++ gen but in the future L band radars will neutralize much of 5th gen stealth designed in 90s. This goes back to kinematics and jammer systems where FGFA wins hands down.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...inas-radars-track-americas-stealth-f-22-15261

Nuke subs were all Russian tech based on Akula. I am an engineer in EnTC with many colleagues in L&T and complete sections are based on Russian data. Indian government technicians are so incompetent that they require Russian technical advisors to understand simple CAD CAM drawings of hull sections.

GSLV,PSLV has seed tech from Russia again. ISRO and DRDO in missile tech has done much better because of Kalam not GoI.

https://thewire.in/138915/cryogenic-ce-20-isro-gslv-mk-iii/

In 1962 Nehru botched up Indo - China war due to his believing himself to be 'a statesman of the world.' Kennedy wanted to help us because we were NON ALIGNED aka POTENTIAL ALLY. Today we are again being forced to join US Alliance or Russia - China - XYZ Tinpot Dictator(s) alliance. By not picking a side we can gain technology from both US and Russia.

P.S: I am a BJP voter as my posts show allover this forum. Liberal 'multicultural' snowflake like you want US influence to turn India into another degenerate homosexual haven like West and subvert Indian nationalism to western cultural appropriation. I watch trash like CNN and BBC to even abstractionists like RT and DW.

You are more of an Americunt as represented by that F 22 you have as your profile pic than I am by my anti - vassal mindedness.

U.S. sent CBG to blockade us not as a picnic during 1971 war.

 

[Spectribution]

Moving away from Russian dependence should not mean moving towards american arms dependence. Indegenization is the future and projects like Tejas mk2, AMCA should be promoted and projects like FGFA, SE F16 should be junked at all cost.

One is flying (FGFA ), one is one paper and will always be an IAF hobby project (Tejas MK II).

BTW F 16 is shit and AMCA is going to remain cool concept art till 2030s when 6th generation aircraft arrive.

 

[Scarface]

The US will NEVER India F 35 without taking a massive pound of flesh. They will make us a vassal like S. Korea and Japan and will interfere in our nuclear program in the name of 'non proliferation.' They tried once, they will try again as they did. The US government ideology swings like the mood swings of a PMSing woman.

F 35 is a half baked cookie in it's current stage.

https://gizmodo.com/the-f-35-amazingly-has-even-more-problems-than-we-thoug-1791285476

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-f-35-14-trillion-dollar-national-disaster-19985

Even Israel is having second thoughts on this subject.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/israel-begins-doubt-capability-new-f-35-fighter-jets/

FGFA is required for India as it has a much better Kinematic and radar set compared to F 35. It's RCS is 4++ gen but in the future L band radars will neutralize much of 5th gen stealth designed in 90s. This goes back to kinematics and jammer systems where FGFA wins hands down.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...inas-radars-track-americas-stealth-f-22-15261

In 1962 Nehru botched up Indo - China war due to his believing himself to be 'a statesman of the world.' Kennedy wanted to help us because we were NON ALIGNED aka POTENTIAL ALLY. Today we are again being forced to join US Alliance or Russia - China - XYZ Tinpot Dictator(s) alliance. By not picking a side we can gain technology from both US and Russia.

P.S: I am a BJP voter as my posts show allover this forum. Liberal 'multicultural' snowflake like you want US influence to turn India into another degenerate homosexual haven like West and subvert Indian nationalism to western cultural appropriation. I watch trash like CNN and BBC to even abstractionists like RT and DW.

You are more of an Americunt as represented by that F 22 you have as your profile pic than I am by my anti - vassal mindedness.

U.S. sent CBG to blockade us not as a picnic during 1971 war.

Do you even know the current geopolitics dynamics ?.
We have signed an N-deal with the US.We are one of the very few if not the only country that can buy Nuclear Fuel despite of not being a signatory to the Non-Proliferation treaty allowing us to use Indian reserves of Uranium for our Nuclear Arsenal.The US can't stop our Nuclear program because it has already succeeded and they know and have accepted it as long as our Nukes are pointed towards China.

That is why despite having the capability our ICBMs are deliberately downplayed so that the US knows they are targeting China,we have a tacit agreement with the US so stop worrying about that.

Also have you read the F-35 thread,most of your concerns and links you gave have already been adressed by me in legnthy discussions between me and other DFI members and neither is this thread a place to address them again.

But I will say as much,despite countries having many options , even the option to join FGFA program or buying chink trash or even buying indigenous countries like the UK and Israel with respectable militaries are buying the F-35.

The Non-Aligned Policy is a joke and it exists to this day,we were in Soviet Camp firmly by 1962,we had received more financial aid from the USSR than its other allies including China and yet when push came to shove the Soviets left us high and dry.

Although those that I have interacted with on this forum know I am a right wing hardliner I don't see how that factors into the discussion,Hell the US itself is right wing considering the this terms election results

I won't lie , I prefer Americans as allies more than the Russians because they are far more reliable than them but as far as my loyalties are concerned you don't need to look as far as my profile pic to find where it lies,just look at the flag over it.

I want what is best for India and our interests lie with the US

The US sent a CBG to help its ally,the situation would have been different had we realized the US as an ally after it actually fought with us in the 62 war and Nehru messed it up by staying non aligned.Meanwhile the Soviets walked away in the China conflict,Neither did they blockade the American CBG in 71, they just sent their Submarines on trailing mission.

 

[Kshithij]

The US WILL NEVER give India ToT on F 35. They want a massive bulk order ~ 100 F 35A and will then put kill switch and spyware on the systems. Even for future upgrades we must bend over for them. With their dominance liberal filth will pervade military and destroy our fighting capability.

Russia gives a no strings attached, money for tech deal. Actually cost will be cheaper as US will push R&D prices on India to fleece us.

US knows it can't do zilch in Asia and they are FORCED to work with us to put pressure on China. Russia will give us critical tech for next to nothing as they need $$$ more than US. Thus for an ecosystem for R&D we must side with Russia and for countering China geostrategically, we must ally with US in Asia. On whole we must be neutral.

None will give ToT, as far as I see.

Very well said and now add this

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/11...recipient-of-chinese-foreign-aid-north-korea/

Russian are the largest recepient of chinese aid !! They are literally sleeping with our enemy.

Russia has as much oil as Saudi Arabia. They also have complete self sufficiency in terms of food, minerals, gas and coal. Russia is in fact exporter in oil, gas, gold, phosphorus etc. Russia has enough resources to even bother about money. US only advantage is that it can print dollars. Since dollars is international currency, they automatically get rich.

Don't think Russia is a beggar state. Just because of its relative isolation Russia may have lower exchange rate to rubles but that doesn't change the wealth of Russia

So there is nothing like "Kill Switch "?

India never accept imported software as far as possible. The software and avionics have to. Be written by India. Even in Su30, India has its own fadec and avionics. Without software bugs, kill switch is difficult.

Russia gives us tech no strings attached.If we had received no tech there would have been no PSLV,GSLV,ATV,INS ARIHANT, KOLKATA CLASS, BRAHMOS,etc.

FGFA is not a mature product which is why we must wait till 2021 ish for Mk II with Item 30 engine and L band AESA radars. F 35 is a US product which is not as good as F 22 in dogfighting. FGFA is. In future we will face J 20 with WS 15X engines and then we have to beg USA for AEFT engine to compete. US will simply milk us and we cannot use their equipment without relying on spares which come from half a world away. Regarding 'Kill Switch' a simple 'Software Upgrade' in a sub component can screw the F 35's ALIS maintenance and interface system as we have NO ACCESS to source code.

Russia also has loyalty while US changes allies by the TV shows it produces. Thus we must stay invested in FGFA if we want a modern viable 5th gen fighter for which we gain ToT as well.

Regarding Tejas, your argument shows how little you know about defence acquisition and technology. We had a cancelled deal with Lockheed during late 90s because of nuke tests. They put sanctions on us. A very bad precedent to rely on major ToT. Maybe with bits and pieces like in EMALS but not whole environments like FGFA.

Your ToI level insight into geostrategic affairs is insulting for a DFI member. Today USA is no longer numero uno. We just have them as most dominant militarily and economically. By mid 2030s that may change if democrats can take power for 8+ years again. Thus investing in multiple allies helps greatly in the long run.

We allied secretly with Israel in late 90s during Kargil after they gave us laser guided bombs and 155mm shells for IAF and IA respectively. Today we have LRASM Barak 8, Barak 8 ER, MF STAR AESA, SPYDER, HERON series drones, ELTA 2052 AESA just because we were friendly to them. Russia has been a brother to us.

In 1971 we would have been scuppered had it not been for them. Please read up on defence articles more before you post as it reflects badly on the forum's quality.

First, India in 1967 was capable of producing nukes. Homi bhabha had proclaimed that and immediately was assassinated. In 1965, Shastri was assassinated by USSR and indira was installed as an ally. Bangladesh war was actually hindu genocide and Indira did very little to stop it. If Shastri was not assassinated, things would have been far different.

Russia doesn't have great geniuses who are absent in India. The Brahmos was not ToT. The aircrafts were also not ToT. India had Marut aircraft which was abandoned by Indira under Russian pressure. The submarine was reverse engineered and not ToT. Don't praise Russia. USA at least is frank about its refusal but Russia cheats.

BTW, Why do I get the porn ad every time?

 

[Spectribution]

None will give ToT, as far as I see.



Russia has as much oil as Saudi Arabia. They also have complete self sufficiency in terms of food, minerals, gas and coal. Russia is in fact exporter in oil, gas, gold, phosphorus etc. Russia has enough resources to even bother about money. US only advantage is that it can print dollars. Since dollars is international currency, they automatically get rich.

Don't think Russia is a beggar state. Just because of its relative isolation Russia may have lower exchange rate to rubles but that doesn't change the wealth of Russia



India never accept imported software as far as possible. The software and avionics have to. Be written by India. Even in Su30, India has its own fadec and avionics. Without software bugs, kill switch is difficult.


First, India in 1967 was capable of producing nukes. Homi bhabha had proclaimed that and immediately was assassinated. In 1965, Shastri was assassinated by USSR and indira was installed as an ally. Bangladesh war was actually hindu genocide and Indira did very little to stop it. If Shastri was not assassinated, things would have been far different.

Russia doesn't have great geniuses who are absent in India. The Brahmos was not ToT. The aircrafts were also not ToT. India had Marut aircraft which was abandoned by Indira under Russian pressure. The submarine was reverse engineered and not ToT. Don't praise Russia. USA at least is frank about its refusal but Russia cheats.

BTW, Why do I get the porn ad every time?

Russian FGFA will give us an environment for fifth generation fighter jet development. This will allow us to establish an entire support network with which we can further develop unmanned fifth generation technology.
The USAF has created 5th gen target drones in this manner.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-cadets-invented-stealth-fighter-22281

With the involvement of reputed private sector contractors like L&T,Reliance Defence,Tata,Adani,Kalyan and sale of stake in HAL to private companies, we shall have an actual future proof aircraft design environment.

Arihant class is redesign of Akula to fit K4,K15 in the VLS tubes. Some designs of Type 204 hull have been used but it is mostly Akula. This I know from friends working in L&T.

Brahmos is now manufactured completely by India. Only restrictions in ToT are in guidance technology which were limited by MCTR till now. This ToT has helped a lot in our hypersonic ramjet development.

P.S: Delete cookies or use VPN when tending to your 'needs'. Cookies and bits of code may sneak in with your next visit to Lisa Aunty and Sunny Bhabi.

 

[Spectribution]

Do you even know the current geopolitics dynamics ?.
We have signed an N-deal with the US.We are one of the very few if not the only country that can buy Nuclear Fuel despite of not being a signatory to the Non-Proliferation treaty allowing us to use Indian reserves of Uranium for our Nuclear Arsenal.The US can't stop our Nuclear program because it has already succeeded and they know and have accepted it as long as our Nukes are pointed towards China.

That is why despite having the capability our ICBMs are deliberately downplayed so that the US knows they are targeting China,we have a tacit agreement with the US so stop worrying about that.

Also have you read the F-35 thread,most of your concerns and links you gave have already been adressed by me in legnthy discussions between me and other DFI members and neither is this thread a place to address them again.

But I will say as much,despite countries having many options , even the option to join FGFA program or buying chink trash or even buying indigenous countries like the UK and Israel with respectable militaries are buying the F-35.

The Non-Aligned Policy is a joke and it exists to this day,we were in Soviet Camp firmly by 1962,we had received more financial aid from the USSR than its other allies including China and yet when push came to shove the Soviets left us high and dry.

Although those that I have interacted with on this forum know I am a right wing hardliner I don't see how that factors into the discussion,Hell the US itself is right wing considering the this terms election results

I won't lie , I prefer Americans as allies more than the Russians because they are far more reliable than them but as far as my loyalties are concerned you don't need to look as far as my profile pic to find where it lies,just look at the flag over it.

I want what is best for India and our interests lie with the US

The US sent a CBG to help its ally,the situation would have been different had we realized the US as an ally after it actually fought with us in the 62 war and Nehru messed it up by staying non aligned.Meanwhile the Soviets walked away in the China conflict,Neither did they blockade the American CBG in 71, they just sent their Submarines on trailing mission.

We got nuke deal because again it gives US leverage against China not for our benefit. US has a habit of pitting one country against another. After watching Pakistan being treated like a cheap whore and China having US by it's balls (debt bonds), India joining US faction is tantamount to committing seppuku.

We are repeatedly delaying test of Agni V, VI because EUfags get nervous and tell US to intervene and thus we have to hold up to look like a 'good boy'. US wants only itself to have nukes or to neutralize other's capability by positioning Arleigh Burke BMD destroyers or PAC 3 sites near their borders. I don't trust US one bit regarding their so called 'commitment'.

F 35A is at best in kinematics an F/A 18SH BLK III with increased acceleration and F 22 stealth and radar technology. F 35B and F 35C is rubbish in kinematics. I am an avid contributor of those 'discussions' on the forum on F 35 so I know this puppy's limitations and strengths all too well. FGFA is anti stealth with L band AESA IFF and F 22 like kinematics and electronics and stealth comparable to Rafale or better. Paying in rubles for tech + aircraft is cheaper than paying in $ for aircraft only.

If we stay out of factions, we can play both sides for tech and grow strong quietly. Compare china of 2004 when they launched their Type 052C to now in 2017 when they launch Type 055. Meanwhile USA sat with their thumb in their ass and dicked around in Middle East for resources China now holds rights to. USA ship in 2004 was Arleigh Burke Flight IIA and now Arleigh Burke Flight III, only major change is radar PESA to AESA.

We can get EMALS from US, FGFA from Russia and radar tech from Israel. NAM is just a cover for our real strength. Why should we be anybody's bitch when we can have muscular nationalism with a resurgent economy help us overtake China by 2035-40. We should actively oppress liberal elites and promote the idea of Indian exceptionalism to the mass where being Indian is a brand and an icon. Also allying with USA means Indian military involvement in their military 'interventions' all over the world. They badly want us to join them in the Afghanistan quagmire.

1962 again was Nehru Congi's fault with him sniffing panties of English ladies and probably offing Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel who screamed hoarse about China. Kennedy was the last US president who gave a damn regarding India till Trump. Nixon hated Indira and wanted India broken in 1971. Soviets subs acted as deterrence to US adventurism.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-Indian-Army-in-1971/articleshow/10625404.cms

https://swarajyamag.com/world/decem...l-ships-into-bay-of-bengal-and-ussr-responded

 

[Kshithij]

Russian FGFA will give us an environment for fifth generation fighter jet development. This will allow us to establish an entire support network with which we can further develop unmanned fifth generation technology.
The USAF has created 5th gen target drones in this manner.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/us-air-force-cadets-invented-stealth-fighter-22281

With the involvement of reputed private sector contractors like L&T,Reliance Defence,Tata,Adani,Kalyan and sale of stake in HAL to private companies, we shall have an actual future proof aircraft design environment.

Arihant class is redesign of Akula to fit K4,K15 in the VLS tubes. Some designs of Type 204 hull have been used but it is mostly Akula. This I know from friends working in L&T.

Brahmos is now manufactured completely by India. Only restrictions in ToT are in guidance technology which were limited by MCTR till now. This ToT has helped a lot in our hypersonic ramjet development.

P.S: Delete cookies or use VPN when tending to your 'needs'. Cookies and bits of code may sneak in with your next visit to Lisa Aunty and Sunny Bhabi.

Brahmos engine and seeker is Russian. Only the fuel, casing, warhead is Indian. Now, India may have developed engine and even seeker, but not from ToT.

Arihant is reverse engineered AKULA. That is what I am saying.

FGFA has no important ToT. If they are giving what we already know, then there is no point. No infrastructure is developed. Tejas and Kaveri are what holds promise. Next, AMCA is what needed. The biggest problem in making 5th generation fighter is engine of 5th generation and stealth profile. We are already developing AESA, Stealth, RAM paint, engine for AMCA.

FGFA is made to be more maneuverable than stealth. The engine is not even close to finish. AESA is not yet developed. Russia is in no mood to transfer technology of AESA or engine. So, what infrastructure are you aiming for?

 

[Spectribution]

Brahmos engine and seeker is Russian. Only the fuel, casing, warhead is Indian. Now, India may have developed engine and even seeker, but not from ToT.

Arihant is reverse engineered AKULA. That is what I am saying.

FGFA has no important ToT. If they are giving what we already know, then there is no point. No infrastructure is developed. Tejas and Kaveri are what holds promise. Next, AMCA is what needed. The biggest problem in making 5th generation fighter is engine of 5th generation and stealth profile. We are already developing AESA, Stealth, RAM paint, engine for AMCA.

FGFA is made to be more maneuverable than stealth. The engine is not even close to finish. AESA is not yet developed. Russia is in no mood to transfer technology of AESA or engine. So, what infrastructure are you aiming for?

All ToT transfer involves technical design and maintenance data transfer at least. Pre verified simulation data with a ready product and service centres for FGFA will ensure core technology gets handed over to India. Even if key tech like crystal fan blade of engines are not immediately available by OEM, the infrastructure to study, research and develop our own will be given to us.

FGFA has Rafale+ stealth and avionics with F 22 like dogfighting capability and radars like 'L' band AESA IFF which was also originally planned to be used on F 22. For India it is a cheap option. US lobby in IAF desperately wants F 35A even though the irony is that it itself is under development. We have 0 experience in US fighter design and unlike Russia who will give tech for money, US wants you to bend the knee first before you get tech.

In ToT no one will give you a 'How To Build For Dummies'. You get core seed tech that you back track and figure out how it works. It's like in school teacher solves a question on board and then dictates a harder one. You must then use logic and reference to previous example to solve it. Same with how GSLV was made.

 

[proud_indian]

https://twitter.com/manupubby

 

[Scarface]

We got nuke deal because again it gives US leverage against China not for our benefit. US has a habit of pitting one country against another. After watching Pakistan being treated like a cheap whore and China having US by it's balls (debt bonds), India joining US faction is tantamount to committing seppuku.

We are repeatedly delaying test of Agni V, VI because EUfags get nervous and tell US to intervene and thus we have to hold up to look like a 'good boy'. US wants only itself to have nukes or to neutralize other's capability by positioning Arleigh Burke BMD destroyers or PAC 3 sites near their borders. I don't trust US one bit regarding their so called 'commitment'.

F 35A is at best in kinematics an F/A 18SH BLK III with increased acceleration and F 22 stealth and radar technology. F 35B and F 35C is rubbish in kinematics. I am an avid contributor of those 'discussions' on the forum on F 35 so I know this puppy's limitations and strengths all too well. FGFA is anti stealth with L band AESA IFF and F 22 like kinematics and electronics and stealth comparable to Rafale or better. Paying in rubles for tech + aircraft is cheaper than paying in $ for aircraft only.

If we stay out of factions, we can play both sides for tech and grow strong quietly. Compare china of 2004 when they launched their Type 052C to now in 2017 when they launch Type 055. Meanwhile USA sat with their thumb in their ass and dicked around in Middle East for resources China now holds rights to. USA ship in 2004 was Arleigh Burke Flight IIA and now Arleigh Burke Flight III, only major change is radar PESA to AESA.

We can get EMALS from US, FGFA from Russia and radar tech from Israel. NAM is just a cover for our real strength. Why should we be anybody's bitch when we can have muscular nationalism with a resurgent economy help us overtake China by 2035-40. We should actively oppress liberal elites and promote the idea of Indian exceptionalism to the mass where being Indian is a brand and an icon. Also allying with USA means Indian military involvement in their military 'interventions' all over the world. They badly want us to join them in the Afghanistan quagmire.

1962 again was Nehru Congi's fault with him sniffing panties of English ladies and probably offing Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel who screamed hoarse about China. Kennedy was the last US president who gave a damn regarding India till Trump. Nixon hated Indira and wanted India broken in 1971. Soviets subs acted as deterrence to US adventurism.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-Indian-Army-in-1971/articleshow/10625404.cms

https://swarajyamag.com/world/decem...l-ships-into-bay-of-bengal-and-ussr-responded

We got anything and everything from any other country because they wanted something in return,nothing is free in geopolitics.

Pakistan is a cheap whore,and it got treated like that because it was actively working against the US in Afghanistan,you cannot expect to call someone an ally and then kill their soldiers and conspiring with its enemies (China and CPEC),treating Pakistan like it deserves doesn't cast US as an ally in any negative light.It is the most reliable ally given its track record.

You work against your ally and you get what you deserve.

We have mutual agreement with the US about our Nuclear Program as long as our missiles are aimed at China.

What is wrong with trying to win a war,any country with the power would have done the same as US did.I don't care if you trust them or not,the fact that you blindly seem to trust Russians it does not come as a surprise.

Do quote me in the F-35 thread next time you post because I haven't seen you debunk any of my reasons which I gave for the IAF should go for the F-35 and the most recent posts in the F-35 thread are that of StealthFlanker who is quite adeptly advocating the F-35 and I haven't seen you reply to him either.

If we stay out of factions like we did in 1962 thanks to Nehru despite the Americans helping us, we will again be left with no one to help us when the Chinks try anything and get nothing from any side because I have explained to you how duplicity will leave us with no tech from either side.

You seem to be repeating the same stupid things again and again while ignoring their clear counters posted by me and other members in this thread.You still think Russia is a reliable ally despite it being the highest recipient of Chinese aid,You still think playing both sides is the right thing to do despite me explaining how that makes us all alone.

Address some of the peoples points instead of just repeating things.

Being an ally does not mean being anyones bitch.The liberals are gone for good from India and I don't see the liberal parties coming back for a long long time so stop with the liberal boogeyman.Those fools have no say when it comes to defense.

And yes being US ally means joining their interventions and frankly I don't see the problem with that.If countries like Poland,Estonia,Canada can commit resources and men to help America so can a country with a mighty military like ours.

And in return you can expect the US to go to war for you.

Now compare what the Soviets did for us in 71 to what the Americans did for us in 62.

Trailing and "deterring" a Naval group versus actually sending a naval group to help us and USAF actually fighting in the war by giving our soldiers supplies and directly antagonazing China.

Russia showed their teeth for us.
The Americans fought with us.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Can HAL complete the FGFA project on its own? that is can it develop the PMF FGFA fighter on its own without Russian assistance in case India formally decides to withdraw from the program?