Sukhoi PAK FA

[kstriya]

Better to go alone in FGFA since HAL has a airframe designed keeping IAF ASQR in mind based on PAK-FA. Invest more in AMCA project. No point in investing 7 billion dollars on PAK-FA when 2-3 indegeneous fifth gen fighter projects can be financed with it in light (Tejas Mk3 ALCA), medium (AMCA) and heavy (AHCA) as well as Ghatak UCAV.

We need a MKI’ed version of PAKFA to understand and learn to build a heavy class fighter. We can later build better 5+ generation aircraft. We need dedicated bomber too on lines with PAKDA. I see opportunity for both Russia and India to collaborate on next generation aircraft’s like the Bhramos venture.

 

[Armand2REP]

This is a crap article already ministry panel had given a go ahead for the deal. FGFA deal will be signed very soon.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...s-top-panel/story-mPrhroM6ftEOSFldOtunnJ.html

Your article is almost 3 months old with no progress in-site.

 

[Bahamut]

I found this on another forum
New Item 30 engine photo

 

[gadeshi]

I found this on another forum
New Item 30 engine photo

It is not Item 30, it is an experimental Al-31FM-2 with KLIVT real 3D nozzle.

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[gadeshi]

Video from Sergey Sobyanin (a Moscow Major) visit to Salut:

 

[ash2win]

It is not Item 30, it is an experimental Al-31FM-2 with KLIVT real 3D nozzle.

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Are you sure ? this handle says so.

 

[gadeshi]

Are you sure ? this handle says so.

Yes, absolutely sure.
These photos and video were made on Saliut Engines Production Plant near Moscow which has no connection to Item 30 development or production but has developped several Al-31F enhanced versions including Al-31FM-1 and Al-31FM-2 engines with 13500kgs thrust.
There is known that one of Al-31FM-2 prototypes has participated in KLIVT 3D nozzle trials for Liulka DB engines. As far as we clearly see KLIVT nozzle we can be 100% sure that the engine on photo is that Al-31FM-2 KLIVT prototype.

As for Item 30, it is developped by Liulka/Saturn DB and produced by UMPO.

 

[IndianHawk]

The Indo-Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Programme (FGFA) was planned about a decade ago and several billion dollars have been spent by both the countries for its design and development.

This article is factually incorrect. India never spent billions on FGFA. All it funded was preliminary research by some 200-300 million $$. I don't recall any other subsequent funding by India.

But with the Air Force not very happy with the FGFA, it will be up to the government to do decide whether the deal goes through or not. The decision will also have to be taken at the highest level. There are some concerns about what happens if the deal falls through. Would the Russians play hardball on the S-400 air defence system deal? That is something India wants.

Without IAF support FGFA is not happening. Govt can't force the plane down the IAF throat. It will become an scandal akin to bofors if that happens. Russian can always sell other things. More nuke subs, more missiles. Sky won't fall if the deal on FGFA is scuttled.

 

[Spectribution]

This article is factually incorrect. India never spent billions on FGFA. All it funded was preliminary research by some 200-300 million $$. I don't recall any other subsequent funding by India.



Without IAF support FGFA is not happening. Govt can't force the plane down the IAF throat. It will become an scandal akin to bofors if that happens. Russian can always sell other things. More nuke subs, more missiles. Sky won't fall if the deal on FGFA is scuttled.

No FGFA no Indian MKI of 5th generation. Liberal scum will force us to buy F 35A. Widen your narrow 'Coke' logic and see the bigger picture. India is blue balling Russia till we get Item 30 on FGFA. That will happen around 2019-20. Then after testing we get it around 2024 for testing with induction around 2027. Even J 20 uses subpar engines.

F 35 will get new engines in 2023 AEFT 5th gen three fan engine with 10% greater thrust. Around that time real 5th gen will start like 4th gen started in mid 70s but took off in the mid-late 80s.

So please read up before you post such rubbish.


P.S: India spent $295 mn on preliminary design on FGFA. In a country where people ask for paper bill at petrol stations to avoid GST govt. won't trash the plan because of US lobby colluding with a few IAF officers. F 16 is crap and even US knows it. Ultimately they want to sell F 35A which is again not ready till 2023.

 

[IndianHawk]

No FGFA no Indian MKI of 5th generation. Liberal scum will force us to buy F 35A. Widen your narrow 'Coke' logic and see the bigger picture. India is blue balling Russia till we get Item 30 on FGFA. That will happen around 2019-20. Then after testing we get it around 2024 for testing with induction around 2027. Even J 20 uses subpar engines.

F 35 will get new engines in 2023 AEFT 5th gen three fan engine with 10% greater thrust. Around that time real 5th gen will start like 4th gen started in mid 70s but took off in the mid-late 80s.

So please read up before you post such rubbish.


P.S: India spent $295 mn on preliminary design on FGFA. In a country where people ask for paper bill at petrol stations to avoid GST govt. won't trash the plan because of US lobby colluding with a few IAF officers. F 16 is crap and even US knows it. Ultimately they want to sell F 35A which is again not ready till 2023.

What rubbish did I posted ??
IAF has submitted in writing that it's not happy with PAKFA.

 

[Scarface]

Liberal scum will force us to buy F 35A.

Might be the first good thing Liberal scum do.

 

[ash2win]

Yes, absolutely sure.
These photos and video were made on Saliut Engines Production Plant near Moscow which has no connection to Item 30 development or production but has developped several Al-31F enhanced versions including Al-31FM-1 and Al-31FM-2 engines with 13500kgs thrust.
There is known that one of Al-31FM-2 prototypes has participated in KLIVT 3D nozzle trials for Liulka DB engines. As far as we clearly see KLIVT nozzle we can be 100% sure that the engine on photo is that Al-31FM-2 KLIVT prototype.

As for Item 30, it is developped by Liulka/Saturn DB and produced by UMPO.

But, Embassy of Russia too

 

[shiphone]

there was the 3rd image missing...the full body shot might be able to end this confusing

 

[gadeshi]

But, Embassy of Russia too

I trust MOD and UAC/Sukhoi official statements (which are absent for now) and inside info + previous infos comparison.

Who is @EmbassyOfRussia on Twitter?
In which country Embassy does this account belongs to?

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[Spectribution]

Might be the first good thing Liberal scum do.

F 35 is a great fighter jet but like FGFA not at full potential. Plus no ToT,US kill switch and for spares reliance on US. With Russia you can grease their palms and they will sell you their grandmother.

Think long term not 'Coke' logic.

 

[Spectribution]

What rubbish did I posted ??
IAF has submitted in writing that it's not happy with PAKFA.

IAF wants FGFA Phase II not current Su57. Thus they will blue ball Russia till it gets Item 30 engine test up and running, i.e they will not buy sexed up Su35M as Su57. Till then ignore all dalals for US lobby.

 

[Scarface]

F 35 is a great fighter jet but like FGFA not at full potential. Plus no ToT,US kill switch and for spares reliance on US. With Russia you can grease their palms and they will sell you their grandmother.

Think long term not 'Coke' logic.

That applies to the Ruskies as much as it does the US.

Even the US will fall in line if you grease their palms,as long as your strategic interests align with theirs.

Suppose an imaginary war with Iran using Russian Equipment and see if they provide us what we need.

As of now our interests align more with US than the Russians.US wants a counterbalance to China and a stabilizer in Afghanistan,as long as we do that the Americans couldn't give 2 shits about Pakistan.

 

[Spectribution]

That applies to the Ruskies as much as it does the US.

Even the US will fall in line if you grease their palms,as long as your strategic interests align with theirs.

Suppose an imaginary war with Iran using Russian Equipment and see if they provide us what we need.

As of now our interests align more with US than the Russians.US wants a counterbalance to China and a stabilizer in Afghanistan,as long as we do that the Americans couldn't give 2 shits about Pakistan.

The US WILL NEVER give India ToT on F 35. They want a massive bulk order ~ 100 F 35A and will then put kill switch and spyware on the systems. Even for future upgrades we must bend over for them. With their dominance liberal filth will pervade military and destroy our fighting capability.

Russia gives a no strings attached, money for tech deal. Actually cost will be cheaper as US will push R&D prices on India to fleece us.

US knows it can't do zilch in Asia and they are FORCED to work with us to put pressure on China. Russia will give us critical tech for next to nothing as they need $$$ more than US. Thus for an ecosystem for R&D we must side with Russia and for countering China geostrategically, we must ally with US in Asia. On whole we must be neutral.

 

[IndianHawk]

IAF wants FGFA Phase II not current Su57. Thus they will blue ball Russia till it gets Item 30 engine test up and running, i.e they will not buy sexed up Su35M as Su57. Till then ignore all dalals for US lobby.

That is what IAF is complaining about. It's not sure if the phase2 will achieve any of the promised target.

 

[IndianHawk]

The US WILL NEVER give India ToT on F 35. They want a massive bulk order ~ 100 F 35A and will then put kill switch and spyware on the systems. Even for future upgrades we must bend over for them. With their dominance liberal filth will pervade military and destroy our fighting capability.

Russia gives a no strings attached, money for tech deal. Actually cost will be cheaper as US will push R&D prices on India to fleece us.

US knows it can't do zilch in Asia and they are FORCED to work with us to put pressure on China. Russia will give us critical tech for next to nothing as they need $$$ more than US. Thus for an ecosystem for R&D we must side with Russia and for countering China geostrategically, we must ally with US in Asia. On whole we must be neutral.

That is all true and logical. But what do we do if a specified weapon system just doesn't has the specific capacity that we require.

In any case we should forget about TOT from Russia in FGFA and focus on Amca.
Let Russia develope and induct su57 with item 30 and all the promised belt and wishes and then simply purchase off the shelf.

No more half baked products. Mig29 fiasco should not be repeated.