Sukhoi PAK FA

[gadeshi]

Has the issue of rivots and bolts sticking out been resolved in this phase?

Т-50-4 (on photo) is one of the Phase 1 prototypes which had no special surface finish cause have not been intended for RCS tests.
T-50-5R and especially T-50-6-2 (the first Phase 2 airframe) has high quality surface from the Day 1.

 

[gadeshi]

If that is true, then it is a very poor quality construction for a 5th generation plane.

Then you'll agree that F-22 and F-35 (and especially YF-22 and X-35) have the poor quality surface as well being non-painted and without top coat on early to mid stage trials

 

[Armand2REP]

Т-50-4 (on photo) is one of the Phase 1 prototypes which had no special surface finish cause have not been intended for RCS tests.
T-50-5R and especially T-50-6-2 (the first Phase 2 airframe) has high quality surface from the Day 1.

Do you have a high res close up image of the Phase 2 to confirm this?

 

[gadeshi]

More T-50-11 (1-11) for your pleasure:

 

[Armand2REP]

More T-50-11 (1-11) for your pleasure:

It is too blurry to tell once zoomed in.

 

[gadeshi]

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[Bahamut]

Interview with United Engine Corporation Chief on New features of 117 Engine currently on PAK-FA compared to 117S Engine on Su-35 and AL-31F on Su-30

http://vpk-news.ru/articles/8228

1 ) there will be new ceramic materials can withstand very high temperatures.
2 ) High-pressure turbine can operate without cooling blades, bearings - no lubrication.
3 ) Inlet temperature exceeds the temperature of the combustion theater kerosene at 2300 degrees.
4 ) The engine is a new low-pressure compressor.
5 ) Substantially upgraded high-pressure compressor.
6 ) The new combustion chamber.
7 ) The new turbine.
8 ) Almost all new units 80 % new parts compared to 117S
9 ) Weight Reduction of 150 kg link
10 ) Fundamentally new system of automatic control system (ACS) - fully digital, with full responsibility. For the first time it will be built at the Russian element basis. Architecture of the system, the control algorithm and its Russian counterparts

 

[gadeshi]

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[Armand2REP]

It still has the same bolts hanging out of it.

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[gadeshi]

No bolts here since T-50-6-2.
Composite panels are mounted with hidden headed screws and rivets covered with several layers of putty.
The things you call bolts are Dzus-typed screw locks on openable service panels.
They are hidden-headed as well but not covered with putty.
Service hatches bunching lines are covered with dielectric scotch during combat mission, just like on F-22/35.
But Russians don't bother them when the plane is not on combat mission.

 

[Armand2REP]

You see the bolts and fixtures forward of the unit number?

Still there...

No bolts here since T-50-6-2.
Composite panels are mounted with hidden headed screws and rivets covered with several layers of putty.
The things you call bolts are Dzus-typed screw locks on openable service panels.
They are hidden-headed as well but not covered with putty.
Service hatches bunching lines are covered with dielectric scotch during combat mission, just like on F-22/35.
But Russians don't bother them when the plane is not on combat mission.

 

[Gessler]

Then you'll agree that F-22 and F-35 (and especially YF-22 and X-35) have the poor quality surface as well being non-painted and without top coat on early to mid stage trials

And this is a completed F-22 -

^^ See how smooth those surfaces are...like a baby's bum. Not a single rivet or bolt sticking out.

 

[Pash]

And this is a completed F-22 -

^^ See how smooth those surfaces are...like a baby's bum. Not a single rivet or bolt sticking out.

Understand

But one is closeup (F22?)

other is far
Post closeup for T-50 too

 

[Armand2REP]

I think the point is that the Su-57 still has the same outdated construction method as its T-50 prototypes. The construction techniques of modern fighters use less fasteners while Russia is still using rivots and bolts in record numbers. This effects the reflectivity of the surface as the RAM coat cannot be applied thick enough to mask it. It also increases the weight of the aircraft.

Understand

But one is closeup (F22?)

other is far
Post closeup for T-50 too

 

[Gessler]

I think the point is that the Su-57 still has the same outdated construction method as its T-50 prototypes. The construction techniques of modern fighters use less fasteners while Russia is still using rivots and bolts in record numbers. This effects the reflectivity of the surface as the RAM coat cannot be applied thick enough to mask it. It also increases the weight of the aircraft.

Urm...I think you did not get the sarcasm in my post.

Even the F-22 (a completed, in-service model) has glaring rivets & bolts. Take a look at the pics I posted.

No one has seen a Su-57. What you're seeing are still T-50 prototypes.

And no - even modern F35 use same construction techniques as T-50...only that the rivets are not visible once the stealth paint/coating has been applied. T-50 has not applied these coatings as yet.

 

[Armand2REP]

The Phase 2 aircraft are the airframes incorporated with the RCS reductions and they are pictured above. The F-22 rivots are flush with the surface of the aircraft thanks to precision drilling. The same is true of the F-35 pictured below and only uses 50 cut pieces as opposed to 9000 of the F-16. It is not the case in the construction of Su-57.

Urm...I think you did not get the sarcasm in my post.

Even the F-22 (a completed, in-service model) has glaring rivets & bolts. Take a look at the pics I posted.

No one has seen a Su-57. What you're seeing are still T-50 prototypes.

And no - even modern F35 use same construction techniques as T-50...only that the rivets are not visible once the stealth paint/coating has been applied. T-50 has not applied these coatings as yet.

 

[Gessler]

The Phase 2 aircraft are the airframes incorporated with the RCS reductions and they are pictured above. The F-22 rivots are flush with the surface of the aircraft thanks to precision drilling. The same is true of the F-35 pictured below and only uses 50 cut pieces as opposed to 9000 of the F-16. It is not the case in the construction of Su-57.

There is still a lot of touch-up to do with the T-50 mate - it's not even in LRIP stage yet. Don't jump to conclusions.

As of flush rivets, this is a completed Su-35 surface -

Save for the RWR section in front of the gun port, you can see rivets on rest of the plane too, and as you can see there are perfectly conform with airframe. How different are they from F-22 rivets as seen here? -

Flush rivets and precision drilling is something Sukhoi has already performed on Su-35, which is not even meant to be a stealthy aircraft. You think they won't do it for Su-57?

You're being too hasty.

This is a finished in-service Su-34 (hi-res) with proper paint and everything. You can see rivets but are they any worse than what's on F-22 shown above?

 

[Armand2REP]

Not only are the rivets not flush, they fasten a new panel for every square foot of the plane. It is the perfect example of how Sukhoi manufactures its current fighters.

 

[Kchontha]

Let's discuss nuts, bolts and rivets etc forever. This is very intersting. If we don't have other than this to discuss then let's scratch our head with a pencil.

 

[Armand2REP]

Let's discuss nuts, bolts and rivets etc forever. This is very intersting. If we don't have other than this to discuss then let's scratch our head with a pencil.

Construction technique is just as important as engines, radar, missiles ect. It might not be as glamorous but it is of more importance to what India can get out of the ToT.