Sukhoi PAK FA

[Kchontha]

FGFA will it come at all? Su-57 itself isn't ready anyway. The platform which isn't ready itself, how can anyone make it better?

FGFA may come when its definitive propulsion called as item 30 is ready. At the moment ruskies are struggling with this turbofan.

 

[smestarz]

Most hilarious thing I read for a long time. You really do overestimate the Rafale and underestimate the Chinese planes.. but try not to talk so stupid. Rafale against china = Cannon fodder for Chinese planes.
Which long range missiles are you talking abt? You mean to say India does not have long range A2A missiles???

Rafale will be used against china . Su30 mki will be used to achieve air superiority over tibet , south Western china.

Rafale with it's long range missiles will help su30 and Indian army to destroy radars and whatever advanced fighters china can throw up , few j20s or su35s.

Rafale is intended to deal with few advanced jets that china will have in near future before FGFA again established Indian edge over china .

 

[smestarz]

With all the Data fusion done on Su-57, I still wonder why India wants twin seater.
They are not insisting on same for Rafale.. is IAF trying to make it difficult for Russian planes only?

FGFA may come when its definitive propulsion called as item 30 is ready. At the moment ruskies are struggling with this turbofan.

 

[IndianHawk]

Most hilarious thing I read for a long time. You really do overestimate the Rafale and underestimate the Chinese planes.. but try not to talk so stupid. Rafale against china = Cannon fodder for Chinese planes.
Which long range missiles are you talking abt? You mean to say India does not have long range A2A missiles???

Too smart for your own good???
What planes does china have , copies of mig21 , copies of su30 which are inferior to su30mki. The only advanced plane China has today are su35 that is just ordered from Russia. J20 might be slightly better then rest of Chinese crap that too 5 years from now.

Rafale has more advanced missiles meteor is more potent than anything Russian or Chinese. Yes India does not have as long range missiles as of now as french.

You can overestimate china all you want . Don't impose your stupidity on others.

 

[TPFscopes]

FGFA may come when its definitive propulsion called as item 30 is ready. At the moment ruskies are struggling with this turbofan.

FGFA will it come at all? Su-57 itself isn't ready anyway. The platform which isn't ready itself, how can anyone make it better?

First few test airframes will be delivered directly from Russia with Al-41 engine and it is expected to have first airframe by 2020 end or early 2021.
Su-57 is almost ready except its dedicated Izdeliye-30.

 

[gadeshi]

First few test airframes will be delivered directly from Russia with Al-41 engine and it is expected to have first airframe by 2020 end or early 2021.
Su-57 is almost ready except its dedicated Izdeliye-30.

All the Su-57 tech parts are ready and have production status except Item 30 engine and 4 types of new weapons from 14 declared.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Why does IAF want twin seater?

The mmrca was not twin seater nor are any other fighters except the MKI.

 

[TPFscopes]

FGFA artwork

. .

 

[TPFscopes]

PAK-FA's LEVCONs performing as air brakes...

Adjustable leading edge vortex controllers (LEVCONs) PAK FA

 

[TPFscopes]

Why does IAF want twin seater?

This question has always perplexed many of our defence analysts. They've always raised the questions as to why India prefers to operate twin seat variants of Fighters. However, this assumption is not always true. India has operated the Single seat fighters in Mirage 2000, Tejas, Mig 29, even MiG 21. So, why some twin seaters and some single seaters?

Traditionally it has got to do with the current fleet composition and future procurement plans. Also, the aircraft with IDS (air Interdiction and Strike) capabilities have been twin seaters.
Let us revisit the trends.

The examples stated above are Su-30 MKI, MRCA and FGFA.

If you notice, all these aircraft had not been designed only with Air-superiority in mind. This, in part, is because of the versatility of their platforms. They are also designed to undertake SEAD and DEAD missions (SEAD stands for Suppression of Enemy Air Defences and DEAD stands for Destruction of Enemy Air Defences). These aircraft will be deployed by IAF on the Day 1 of the conflict. Their role will not be to just establish air-superiority but also sustain Air-superiority. This essentially means loitering around in the hostile airspace and shooting down oncoming enemy fighters while protecting our own strike aircraft. Under such demanding situations, having a two man crew is not just essential but more than helpful. While the pilot takes care of flying the platform and carrying our evasive manoeuvres to escape enemy SAMS and AAA, the WSO who sits in the back operates the ECMs and Weapons locking and deployment. However, it is the pilot who launches the weapon and employs flares and chaff after weapon launch. Also, the WSO maintains constant communication link with Ground Stations and nearby AWACS... This removes the pressure of the pilot who can concentrate on flying the aircraft in such a demanding situation and returning the crew back safely out of the hostile airspace. It also helps when you have a fellow warrior behind you.

Then, you may conjure as to why do we operate Single seat MiG 29s and LCAs. These are designed to defend the Indian skies from any invading aircraft. They never leave the Indian airspace unless deemed utmost necessity. In fact, they are optimised for BVR combat so that they enemy aircraft can be shot at even before it enters our sky.

This planning of our fleet can even be noticed by observing the airbases. The MiG 29s are never operated from any of the eastern airbases of India. They only operate on the western flank of india . Why? Because, in any future war, against Pakistan India will just operate BVR fighters to maintain a high strike rate against Pakistani F16s. But against the Chinese, India will try to carry out surgical strikes deep inside Chinese territory to take out the airfields of Tibet. Here, the unique features and capabilities of Su-30MKI will be more suited for the role than single seaters. If my guess is right, the Rafale (if inducted) will also be operated exclusively from the eastern airbases and northeast bases.



P.S: sorry if my answer veered out of topic.

The mmrca was not twin seater nor are any other fighters except the MKI.

Twin seat fighters of IAF:

1.Mirage 2000TH/TI : Total 9 in service

2. Mig-29UPG

3. Jaguar

4. Su-30MKI & Mig-21UM

5.Upcoming RAFALE-DH

 

[airtel]

With all the Data fusion done on Su-57, I still wonder why India wants twin seater.
. is IAF trying to make it difficult for Russian planes only?

Why does IAF want twin seater?

.

IAF is Doing the Right Thing ..........one Pilot can control the Fighter Jet and 2nd Pilot will Control The Drones & UCAVs.........In The past also IAF Used Twin seater Jets But For different Reasons .


even the Europeans want to develop a next Generation twin seater Jet .

http://www.popsci.com/jet-fighter-2040s-is-stealthy-drone-herder

http://thediplomat.com/2015/05/will-f-35-pilots-command-a-swarm-of-drones-in-flight/

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/02/future-air-force-fighter-planes-will-be.html

 

[smestarz]

Well, I think you know yourself better, right? So stop posting hilarious things
Rafale was beaten hands down by Su-30 MKI in WVR combat, and one of the weakness of Su-30 MKI is very big RCS, On other hand Su-57 is stealthy and very low RCS in design itself, further with all the other avionics that are going to come with it, We might be looking at planes like Rafale how we might look at Westland Vampire now.
Su-47 has the range, the load and also the Stealth to perform deep strike roles in China for which planes like Rafale would struggle to get past the border.

The Chinese have their copies of Su-27 and which they are trying to develop further, They have ordered Su-35 which is very capable plane and more capable than Su-30 MKI, and now if Su-30 MKI can take down Rafales , then it should be far easier for Su-35 to do that, thanks to their powerful engine, Aerodynamics and their long range Irbis E radar. J-20 not much is known about it, also they have an F-22 look alike called J-31, by the way J-20 is in LRIP as I understand, and not "5 years from now", unfortunately we are the ones going to get Rafale 5 years from now starting from 2019. This is a fact and you can research if you want.

Meteor, Rafale has one way data link to it, are you aware of that?
Do you know of Russian missiles like Novator, R-77?, K-77 M, BTW K-77M is designed for Su-57 and its IOC will be this year..

I never underestimate China, but you like a buffoon are doing the mistake, I dont need to impose my knowledge, the problem is knowledge is there but brains like yours are semi permeable, sometimes even simple and logical things dont go through tiny brain of yours.. Pity

Too smart for your own good???
What planes does china have , copies of mig21 , copies of su30 which are inferior to su30mki. The only advanced plane China has today are su35 that is just ordered from Russia. J20 might be slightly better then rest of Chinese crap that too 5 years from now.

Rafale has more advanced missiles meteor is more potent than anything Russian or Chinese. Yes India does not have as long range missiles as of now as french.

You can overestimate china all you want . Don't impose your stupidity on others.

 

[smestarz]

K-77M as I understand will receive IOC this year, which 4 weapons are still pending.
Would be nice to have the list of these 14 goodies

All the Su-57 tech parts are ready and have production status except Item 30 engine and 4 types of new weapons from 14 declared.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[smestarz]

Doesnt look that cute in this colour scheme, I think the Grey one that IAF uses would be much better,
The russian one is attractive, but I think that would suit the topography in Russia.

FGFA artwork

. .

 

[smestarz]

Usually at least during the soviet times the Russian had twin seat trainers for most planes and they were having U in their model no, for example the Twin seat trainer version of MiG-21 would be MiG-21U. When we were buying MiG-21, IAF used bombers like Canberras, the requirement of twin seat came after the planes became complicated and lot of avionics came into picture.
Planes like Jaguar were twin seater because they were designed to then drop mostly bombs on the target, When Jaguars were designed the missiles were not as reliable as they were today, So these planes had to fly deep and low and do pin point strike on enemy targets And so the pilot had to focus mainly on flying and the WSO was the one involved in ensuring the weapons are delivered on target, else it would be more workload on pilot, Thus in a way, it was just an extension of the WW2 planes.

But sometimes the actions of IAF does confuse me. for example
Most of our Su-30 MKI are twin seater as you described,
For MRCA they had specified just a few nos as twin seater and rest were to be single seater.
For FGFA their insistence is on more twin seaters.and that too specially since the plane is going to be more advanced than MRCA planes simply because its designed and developed at much later time and hence incorporating a lot of knowledge of shaping etc etc.

Su-57 is one of the planes that is purposefully designed and built with stealth and supermaneuverability unlike some of the flying western counterparts, which add some RAM paste and then declare their plane " as capable as 5th Gen plane"

This question has always perplexed many of our defence analysts. They've always raised the questions as to why India prefers to operate twin seat variants of Fighters. However, this assumption is not always true. India has operated the Single seat fighters in Mirage 2000, Tejas, Mig 29, even MiG 21. So, why some twin seaters and some single seaters?

Traditionally it has got to do with the current fleet composition and future procurement plans. Also, the aircraft with IDS (air Interdiction and Strike) capabilities have been twin seaters.

Let us revisit the trends.

The examples stated above are Su-30 MKI, MRCA and FGFA.

If you notice, all these aircraft had not been designed only with Air-superiority in mind. This, in part, is because of the versatility of their platforms. They are also designed to undertake SEAD and DEAD missions (SEAD stands for Suppression of Enemy Air Defences and DEAD stands for Destruction of Enemy Air Defences). These aircraft will be deployed by IAF on the Day 1 of the conflict. Their role will not be to just establish air-superiority but also sustain Air-superiority. This essentially means loitering around in the hostile airspace and shooting down oncoming enemy fighters while protecting our own strike aircraft. Under such demanding situations, having a two man crew is not just essential but more than helpful. While the pilot takes care of flying the platform and carrying our evasive manoeuvres to escape enemy SAMS and AAA, the WSO who sits in the back operates the ECMs and Weapons locking and deployment. However, it is the pilot who launches the weapon and employs flares and chaff after weapon launch. Also, the WSO maintains constant communication link with Ground Stations and nearby AWACS... This removes the pressure of the pilot who can concentrate on flying the aircraft in such a demanding situation and returning the crew back safely out of the hostile airspace. It also helps when you have a fellow warrior behind you.

Then, you may conjure as to why do we operate Single seat MiG 29s and LCAs. These are designed to defend the Indian skies from any invading aircraft. They never leave the Indian airspace unless deemed utmost necessity. In fact, they are optimised for BVR combat so that they enemy aircraft can be shot at even before it enters our sky.

This planning of our fleet can even be noticed by observing the airbases. The MiG 29s are never operated from any of the eastern airbases of India. They only operate on the western flank of india . Why? Because, in any future war, against Pakistan India will just operate BVR fighters to maintain a high strike rate against Pakistani F16s. But against the Chinese, India will try to carry out surgical strikes deep inside Chinese territory to take out the airfields of Tibet. Here, the unique features and capabilities of Su-30MKI will be more suited for the role than single seaters. If my guess is right, the Rafale (if inducted) will also be operated exclusively from the eastern airbases and northeast bases.



P.S: sorry if my answer veered out of topic.


Twin seat fighters of IAF:

1.Mirage 2000TH/TI : Total 9 in service

2. Mig-29UPG

3. Jaguar

4. Su-30MKI & Mig-21UM

5.Upcoming RAFALE-DH

 

[Vinod DX9]

Most hilarious thing I read for a long time. You really do overestimate the Rafale and underestimate the Chinese planes.. but try not to talk so stupid. Rafale against china = Cannon fodder for Chinese planes.
Which long range missiles are you talking abt? You mean to say India does not have long range A2A missiles???

Couldn't understand why you did say so... what A2A missile they have which make world's one of the finest current fighter jet an easy target? Only possible great threat is VLRAAM which is being sepaculated of having 400 km range with a Mach 6 speed. But that too isn't ready. And even in that case too we have K-100, same range (if you say that is just for AEWS killing and doesn't have confirmed range more than 200 km, same logic applies for Chinese VLRAAM).
Rafale has Meteor with 100+km range with 60km NEZ. Besides SPECTRA, RBE 2 AA, OSF combo... It is not at all any excellent SEAD pupose giant without any reason.

As Rafale hasn't entered into IAF,if enters may carry K-100 can be used from Su-57, so will be from FGFA too,and possibly from AMCA too in future.

However, this thread should be used for Su-57 and FGFA only

 

[TPFscopes]

Doesnt look that cute in this colour scheme, I think the Grey one that IAF uses would be much better,
The russian one is attractive, but I think that would suit the topography in Russia.

Did you mean somrthing like this , enjoy

 

[TPFscopes]

Most of our Su-30 MKI are twin seater as you described,

Not most but all Su-30MKIs are twin seat jets.

For MRCA they had specified just a few nos as twin seater and rest were to be single seater.

8 dual-seat Rafale-DH and 28 single-seat Rafale-EH aircraft on order.

 

[Kchontha]

With all the Data fusion done on Su-57, I still wonder why India wants twin seater.
They are not insisting on same for Rafale.. is IAF trying to make it difficult for Russian planes only?

Both single and twin seaters have their own pros and cons. Though fgfa is designed based on the t50/su57 the Indian version will be different and developed on the basis of IAF specific requirements and doctrine. Therefore two prototypes of fgfa will be developed i.e. single seater will be developed in Russia and twin seater will be developed in India by HAL. IAF argument for a twin seater is factored on pilot fatigue and the needs for a weapon system operator (WSO). This requirement is an furthering of IAF su30mki experience. However Russian argued that modifying a single seater to a twin one will compromise aircraft's stealthyness. Whatever the case maybe, aircraft such as rafale which was designed earlier than su57 doesn't need WSO. I wonder IAF is still adamant about a decade old requirement.

 

[IndianHawk]

Most hilarious thing I read for a long time. You really do overestimate the Rafale and underestimate the Chinese planes.. but try not to talk so stupid. Rafale against china = Cannon fodder for Chinese planes.
Which long range missiles are you talking abt? You mean to say India does not have long range A2A missiles???

Too smart for your own good???
What planes does china have , copies of mig21 , copies of su30 which are inferior to su30mki. The only advanced plane China has today are su35 that is just ordered from Russia. J20 might be slightly better then rest of Chinese crap that too 5 years from now.

Rafale has more advanced missiles meteor is more potent than anything Russian or Chinese. Yes India does not have as long range missiles as of now as french.

You can overestimate china all you want . Don't impose your stupidity on others.

Well, I think you know yourself better, right? So stop posting hilarious things
Rafale was beaten hands down by Su-30 MKI in WVR combat, and one of the weakness of Su-30 MKI is very big RCS, On other hand Su-57 is stealthy and very low RCS in design itself, further with all the other avionics that are going to come with it, We might be looking at planes like Rafale how we might look at Westland Vampire now.
Su-47 has the range, the load and also the Stealth to perform deep strike roles in China for which planes like Rafale would struggle to get past the border.

The Chinese have their copies of Su-27 and which they are trying to develop further, They have ordered Su-35 which is very capable plane and more capable than Su-30 MKI, and now if Su-30 MKI can take down Rafales , then it should be far easier for Su-35 to do that, thanks to their powerful engine, Aerodynamics and their long range Irbis E radar. J-20 not much is known about it, also they have an F-22 look alike called J-31, by the way J-20 is in LRIP as I understand, and not "5 years from now", unfortunately we are the ones going to get Rafale 5 years from now starting from 2019. This is a fact and you can research if you want.

Meteor, Rafale has one way data link to it, are you aware of that?
Do you know of Russian missiles like Novator, R-77?, K-77 M, BTW K-77M is designed for Su-57 and its IOC will be this year..

I never underestimate China, but you like a buffoon are doing the mistake, I dont need to impose my knowledge, the problem is knowledge is there but brains like yours are semi permeable, sometimes even simple and logical things dont go through tiny brain of yours.. Pity

You are mentally retard aren't you.

In your post you claimed rafale won't be used again china to which I simply stated they will be. Now you are jumping topic all typing all kind of bullshit.

IAF has decided to field rafale in Bengal to face china. That is fact on the ground . Deal with it.

IAF knows rafale it knows su30 mki and it know all plane that china flies.

But it seems your delusional brains has more knowledge , expertise and experience than IAF !!!!

Your stupidity in technical matters aside you call out others by insulting terms without provocation. Enough of your :bs:

I'm blocking you . No need to reply to this post. Enjoy your ramblings in your own shitty mind.