Sukhoi PAK FA

[Bahamut]

care to explain on what level i am wrong ???? so far MKI still suffer from low availability and mig 29k are jokes their availability as low as 25% a mig 29k and su 33 also crashed within a week aboard kuznetsov also


heard this from PARIKRAMA

"Hearing from different circles..
Rafale exciting news will be out soon..

Both for Make In India and a bigger surprise of Rafale M order from Merignac. And it's quite a big size number !!!

India has chosen the upgraded engine Rafale which is going to meet multiple requirements including deck ops at 14 degree ski jump.

The upgraded engine will curtail the limitation of MTOW which is present in M88-4E for marine version operating from STOBAR carriers. The other competitor to this SH but it's not considered by IN owing to even less compatibility for STOBAR ops.

Oh btw IAF need is now 400jets and IN need for deck ops is 80 and shore based is another 60+. And single engine requirement is again going super slow..

And most importantly the IAF and IN fighter must also be MII fighter and a substantial benefit in TOT in terms of manufacturing and repair & overhaul ecosystem.

Since navy won't chose single engine as of now, the chances dimmed for the other so called single engine need of IAF based MII.

Enjoy the Christmas and happy new year in advance.. good work is done behind by DA, France and India."


INDIA NAVY IS THINKING OF MODIFYING VIKRAMADITYA AND REPLACING THE ENTIRE MIG 29K FLEET CAUSE THEY SUCK SO MUCH WITH SHIT ENGINE AND RELIABILITY WITH RAFALE BOTH VIKRAMADITYA AND VIKRANT WILL BE SPORTING RAFALE WHICH I THINK IS FINE.


russia is not the same soviet union they hardly have money to spend on quality R&D still recycling old tech to make jets we should go with france to make new jets since they already are helping us with engine tech not to mention their engines are reliable i mean mirage 2000 is our strategic deterrent carrier despite being single engine.

i love MKI as every other one here but russian jets are hardly reliable and crude we need to buy rafale and then co operate with france on AMCA otherwise we will be spending resources on 2 5th gen programmes???

who does that are we that rich??? to waste money on recycled old tech

AMCA will be delayed if we buy PAK-FA so focus on AMCA and replace all the migs and old russian tech with homemade and french jets except MKI

Mig 29k is a new plane and it's serviceability is low because of the fact that engine have to be sent to Russia for repair, it is only recently that IN has started keeping RD33 engine in stocks like IAF keeps 4 engine for each MKI and in future Rafale.
Plus we do not have technology for engine manufacturing of the quality of AL31 or M88 from scratch. Even from lower version of RD 33, critical components are imported.

 

[gadeshi]

Mig 29k is a new plane and it's serviceability is low because of the fact that engine have to be sent to Russia for repair, it is only recently that IN has started keeping RD33 engine in stocks like IAF keeps 4 engine for each MKI and in future Rafale.
Plus we do not have technology for engine manufacturing of the quality of AL31 or M88 from scratch. Even from lower version of RD 33, critical components are imported.

Su-33 and MiG-29K have crushed due to Kuznetsov arrestor wires system failures, not due to planes flaws.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[OnePunchMan]

Mig 29k is a new plane and it's serviceability is low because of the fact that engine have to be sent to Russia for repair, it is only recently that IN has started keeping RD33 engine in stocks like IAF keeps 4 engine for each MKI and in future Rafale.
Plus we do not have technology for engine manufacturing of the quality of AL31 or M88 from scratch. Even from lower version of RD 33, critical components are imported.

rd 33 is overhauled in india my friend and al 31 is manufactured in india minus some components in te koraput plant in nashik and they are unreliable because they are shit engines and in carrier ops specially STOBAR it puts lot of stress on engines and they just cant handle it.

 

[OnePunchMan]

First thing.............. Use punctuation. Seems you forgot to do so and all have gone gibberish like the very idea.

Now coming to point, why we do need PAK-FA or FGFA in our case.

Russia might not have presented a sleek F-22 or F-35 sort of design. But PAK-FA in itself is technologically superior to any of its counter part in our arsenal. Agreed that there has been issues in between India and Russia regarding the work share in designing. But it has been tried many a times to iron out these issues. If some one says that India has been interested in PAK-FA, then it is just plain lie. India from first has always been interested in FGFA programme rather then PAK-FA. PAK-FA has always been a Russian child and India only invested in it to pick out nits and kits of structure designing. India never said that they were interested in Russian avionics and neither can India work on with Russian avionics. Avionics and others wold always be Indian, but it was the structure which had drawn India towards it.
Now coming on to French collaboration. Do you seriously think India is going to get any sort of help from French in this regard? Lets keep each and every one out of it and just keep ourself in place of Russia or France or lets say USA. Do you think we would have been straight forward or open to sharing the knowledge with anyone? No country is going to help you out in your venture for advance tech. You got to acquire them yourself or simply purchase it off the self. Tejas is one good example for that. Moreover France has yet to come up with any design, leave alone working on it as of now. With NATO on their side, few years down the line don't be surprise to see F-35 or may be F-22 flying in France color.
When you talk about Su-30, it has been conceived in 1990. Where was our aviation sector at that time? We have been busy with license production of Migs and maintenance of Mirage. As far as ToT is concerned, ofcourse there is no ToT to share with. Russia did provided with rights to license build the airframe of the fighter, avionics you have customized as per your need. What left is the engine. Now no one in world is going to help you out with engine tech. What ToT are you talking of over here? If there was zero ToT, then do you think India would have been able to design a MKI from scratch?
Rather then pulling the plug from PAK-FA what we need is infact careful investment in its development. There is always something to learn from one development or another. Now its upto you how much involvement you could derive out from the venture. You might have heard, "A bird in hand worth more then two in bush".

except we dont have a bird in hand because bird is not even ready get it???? atleast not until 2022.


and if you support indigenization then choosing AMCA is better than FGFA also i know the indian variant will be FGFA but its not even on the drawing board yet because PAK-FA is half baked prototype do you know SU MKI is far superior to anything russia has because of indian mission computer and yet we dont get any royalty no IP over it if we will be designing and manufacturing the entire avionics and EW suite of FGFA then why do we need to pay heavy royalties to russia to do that why not just focus on indigenous programme.

also read my other posts about engine tech also engine tech transfer is part of the offset of the rafale deal thats the whole reason deal was stuck for so long and as you can see there is far more requirement for rafale

quoting parikrama again



Hearing from different circles..
Rafale exciting news will be out soon..

Both for Make In India and a bigger surprise of Rafale M order from Merignac. And it's quite a big size number !!!

India has chosen the upgraded engine Rafale which is going to meet multiple requirements including deck ops at 14 degree ski jump.

The upgraded engine will curtail the limitation of MTOW which is present in M88-4E for marine version operating from STOBAR carriers. The other competitor to this SH but it's not considered by IN owing to even less compatibility for STOBAR ops.

Oh btw IAF need is now 400jets and IN need for deck ops is 80 and shore based is another 60+. And single engine requirement is again going super slow..

And most importantly the IAF and IN fighter must also be MII fighter and a substantial benefit in TOT in terms of manufacturing and repair & overhaul ecosystem.

Since navy won't chose single engine as of now, the chances dimmed for the other so called single engine need of IAF based MII.

Enjoy the Christmas and happy new year in advance.. good work is done behind by DA, France and India.


understand now whats going on???
we are not getting these jets for free from russia like china gives to packies we pay arm and leg and thus need to get the best finished products no half baked shoddy russian crap which cant ever achieve full potential and is hugely expensive to maintain with no proper support and low quality in general.

IF INDIAN NAVY IS READY TO MODIFY ENTIRE AIRCRAFT CARRIER JUST TO OPERATE RAFALE THEN YOU CAN UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH MIG 29K SUCKS AND THERE IS A VERY HUGE GAP IN ITS CAPABILITY WORD IS ONLY 2-3 JETS ARE EVER OPERATIONAL IN ENTIRE NAVAL WING.

 

[gadeshi]

I don't like this but if Russians do not come clean on their engagements with Porkistan then we might not see PAK FA in the IAF. Our relationship with US is transactional and different from Russian relationship with Porkistan as US and Russia do not share common border. If Russians cannot understand our sensitivities then thay can say good bye to billions of dollars from India into their nuclear and military industry.

It is offtopic here but Russians have clear goals with Pakis and in the region itself:
1 - No wars and riots, just cooperation, trade, co-development and (if possible) friendship within the actors;
2 - Russians need to have foreign bases and fulcrum points around Afganistan to suppress narcotraffic and (if possible) US-backed and inspired drugs production in it.

That's all.
No other goals with Pakis due to their uncertain political status.

 

[gadeshi]

There is a brewing Pak-China-Russia nexus. Paki jornos are taking about their secret Russin friendship for about a year now. After Putin's support for taliban in Afghanistan and this new support for CPEC, I don't think India will risk future of their Air Force in untrustworthy russian hands who can very well repeat Admiral Gorshkov debacle. Modi and Doval aren't idiots, mark my words FGFA program is dead. AMCA or F35 or both are going to be india's 5th gen fighters.

Your words lack consistensy and sanity in both statements.

 

[Bahamut]

rd 33 is overhauled in india my friend and al 31 is manufactured in india minus some components in te koraput plant in nashik and they are unreliable because they are shit engines and in carrier ops specially STOBAR it puts lot of stress on engines and they just cant handle it.

All raw materials comes from Russia as we lack a facility to manufacture it (titanium alloy) so more in deep repair they do to Russia. As for engine quality of RD 33,MIG 29K2 was build according to specification from IN and they found thrust to be good and there are plan to fix mig 35 variety RD 33 to increase thrust.

 

[gadeshi]

except we dont have a bird in hand because bird is not even ready get it???? atleast not until 2022.


and if you support indigenization then choosing AMCA is better than FGFA also i know the indian variant will be FGFA but its not even on the drawing board yet because PAK-FA is half baked prototype do you know SU MKI is far superior to anything russia has because of indian mission computer and yet we dont get any royalty no IP over it if we will be designing and manufacturing the entire avionics and EW suite of FGFA then why do we need to pay heavy royalties to russia to do that why not just focus on indigenous programme.

also read my other posts about engine tech also engine tech transfer is part of the offset of the rafale deal thats the whole reason deal was stuck for so long and as you can see there is far more requirement for rafale

quoting parikrama again



Hearing from different circles..
Rafale exciting news will be out soon..

Both for Make In India and a bigger surprise of Rafale M order from Merignac. And it's quite a big size number !!!

India has chosen the upgraded engine Rafale which is going to meet multiple requirements including deck ops at 14 degree ski jump.

The upgraded engine will curtail the limitation of MTOW which is present in M88-4E for marine version operating from STOBAR carriers. The other competitor to this SH but it's not considered by IN owing to even less compatibility for STOBAR ops.

Oh btw IAF need is now 400jets and IN need for deck ops is 80 and shore based is another 60+. And single engine requirement is again going super slow..

And most importantly the IAF and IN fighter must also be MII fighter and a substantial benefit in TOT in terms of manufacturing and repair & overhaul ecosystem.

Since navy won't chose single engine as of now, the chances dimmed for the other so called single engine need of IAF based MII.

Enjoy the Christmas and happy new year in advance.. good work is done behind by DA, France and India.


understand now whats going on???
we are not getting these jets for free from russia like china gives to packies we pay arm and leg and thus need to get the best finished products no half baked shoddy russian crap which cant ever achieve full potential and is hugely expensive to maintain with no proper support and low quality in general.

IF INDIAN NAVY IS READY TO MODIFY ENTIRE AIRCRAFT CARRIER JUST TO OPERATE RAFALE THEN YOU CAN UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH MIG 29K SUCKS AND THERE IS A VERY HUGE GAP IN ITS CAPABILITY WORD IS ONLY 2-3 JETS ARE EVER OPERATIONAL IN ENTIRE NAVAL WING.

1 - Indians are not able to finish out even 20-30 times more simple light fighter like LCA Tejas.
Like it or not, that is your competential and technical level for now.
And there are no signs that you can or ever been able to do anything viable and on-level youself.
2 - Nobody except Russians and Americans has G5 technologies even close.
3 - Nobody except Russians wil share these technologies with you even for the huge money.

That's the situation as it is. Now you can think about it (if you can to, which is very doughtful though).

 

[OnePunchMan]

All raw materials comes from Russia as we lack a facility to manufacture it (titanium alloy) so more in deep repair they do to Russia. As for engine quality of RD 33,MIG 29K2 was build according to specification from IN and they found thrust to be good and there are plan to fix mig 35 variety RD 33 to increase thrust.

blades and spares are there by the hundreds man we dont need to send it russia are you loosing your sanity man no carrier ops rely on mail order engine they have 6 engines per mig for carrier ops and crap load of spares its even after this that the rate of availability is crap one out every 3 sortie is resulting in a engine packing up thus sending the mig 29k in deep repairs they simply cant handle carrier ops thats why INDIAN NAVY HAS DECIDED TO RELY ON SUPREMELY SUPERIOR RAFALE AND ITS M88 ENGINE i have no gripe with russians just saying how it is.

 

[Bahamut]

SU MKI is far superior to anything russia

Herd of Su 35,its the king of flanker family.

we dont get any royalty no IP over it if we will be designing and manufacturing the entire avionics and EW suite of FGFA then why do we need to pay heavy royalties to russia to do that why not just focus on indigenous programme

The EW and avionics are jointly developed as many components like radar, engine, jammer etc are the same. No royalty, but final integration is done by KRET.

 

[OnePunchMan]

1 - Indians are not able to finish out even 20-30 times more simple light fighter like LCA Tejas.
Like it or not, that is your competential and technical level for now.
And there are no signs that you can or ever been able to do anything viable and on-level youself.
2 - Nobody except Russians and Americans has G5 technologies even close.
3 - Nobody except Russians wil share these technologies with you even for the huge money.

That's the situation as it is. Now you can think about it (if you can to, which is very doughtful though).

1) tejas is finished and is being inducted with second line mulled for production also tejas hasnt had a single crash thats massively reliable and better than any russian plane i mean russia dont even make single engine jets anymore because of how unreliable and crap their design and engines are.
2) france is G5
3) france is sharing the tech as part of the offsets and mirages is the highest reliable jet in indian arsenal and it performed supremely in kargil.

 

[OnePunchMan]

Herd of Su 35,its the king of flanker family.

The EW and avionics are jointly developed as many components like radar, engine, jammer etc are the same. No royalty, but final integration is done by KRET.

who died and made it the king???
su 35 is nothing but few iterative improvements and doesnt hold anything over MKI except the uprated al 41 engine besides its what's inside that matters

avionics and EW its what its all about russian flankers are beautiful no doubt sure but they are decades behind western tech in terms of electronics



here is the footage of F-35 EOTS and DAS picking a missile 800 miles away while the pathetic OLS on SU-30 family has effective range of about 50-60 KM do you the difference in the level of tech here???

even china has surpassed russia in terms of electronics russian design are still relying on old fabricated chips and use old architecture with very high TDP and low level miniaturization .

 

[Bahamut]

they have 6 engines per mig for carrier ops a

We have about 45 mig 29in navy and the 100engine between them.100/45, I am sure it is not six.

blades and spares are there by the hundreds man we dont need to send it russia are you loosing your sanity man no carrier ops rely on mail order

There is a shortage of spares and it is acknowledged by navy and by air force that why deals are signed to reduce the time period.

 

[Bahamut]

here is the footage of F-35 EOTS and DAS picking a missile 800 miles away while the pathetic OLS on SU-30 family has effective range of about 50-60 KM do you the difference in the level of tech here???

The 800km range is done by inputs from satellite, on its own DAS and EOTS have similar ranges.

su 35 is nothing but few iterative improvements and doesnt hold anything over MKI except the uprated al 41 engine besides its what's inside that matters

Heard IbisE radar, 300+km range, multiple frequency jammer, jam proof communication.

 

[BON PLAN]

Go and read something serious (abd it's not Pedivikia), son.
Your posts are like typical "I've read and know nothing but I have the right for my own oppinion coz my dad says I'm clever".

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The news given by Parikrama were very acccurate about the Rafale indian purchase. Even in term of lead time...
I'm among those who think it's a pretty very good source.

 

[OnePunchMan]

We have about 45 mig 29in navy and the 100engine between them.100/45, I am sure it is not six.

There is a shortage of spares and it is acknowledged by navy and by air force that why deals are signed to reduce the time period.

those 100 were purchased as spares the planes came with a set of engines and a set of spares already and yes in general there is shortage of spares but for immediate OPS they do stock spares especially on carrier ops during active deployment.

 

[BON PLAN]

Islam is the real snake which has plagued the entire globe.

WELL SAID. It's the main threat of the near future. We all have to ban radical islam and all their supports.

 

[OnePunchMan]

WELL SAID. It's the main threat of the near future. We all have to ban radical islam and all their supports.

bon plan man i think your on wrong thread here we were discussing the PAK-FA here islam bashing thread is ----------------->>>>>>> that way

 

[Filtercoffee]

This thread is for updates about the subject. Please refrain from ranting and abusing. We hope to keep this clean and streamlined for non mil public and for their understanding on a broader level, leaving the serving personel to worry about out comes in the near future. Please do not undermine since there are others who want things to progress.

 

[Bahamut]

those 100 were purchased as spares the planes came with a set of engines and a set of spares already and yes in general there is shortage of spares but for immediate OPS they do stock spares especially on carrier ops during active deployment.

I did some research and found out that when flying over sea the salts corrodes the engine and aircraft structure faster and there is a loss. A carrier can carry limited about of spares, so one must have the delivered by ship or by cargo plane. But for short interval serviceability can increase to close 90 and then it falls down. The 25% is average. Eg. The serviceability of Rafale is 49 but during Libyan conflict the increase it to close to 90%,the Su 30 survivability was close 100% in last red flag.