Sukhoi PAK FA

[BON PLAN]

repeating it for idiot like you

Thank's a lot. ..

 

[BON PLAN]

Lets say Rafale for example, French are not planning to use METEOR, why are you certifying it for Rafale? There are lot of things the French apparently "do not need" but they are nevertheless trying to get them certified too,

Facts :
- Meteor will be induced on french Rafale as far as 2018.
- France only ordered 100 pcs to date. We don't think such a range is usefull, but.... in case of.
- It was just impossible to let EF and Gripen with such a weapon without integrating it on Rafale. Marketing reason mainly.

Facts these are, only facts.

 

[gadeshi]

Smestarz is only able to hate Rafale, day after day, and forum after forum.
He don't even know perfectly why...

At least never seen a Rafale with non guided bombs.... It's outdated.

A 5th gen fighter delivering 1st gen bombs....

No weapons can be outdated until they are effective. Rafale has Mk.80 series bombs in the weapons list.

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[gadeshi]

Strange you began tests with dummy bombs. Marketingly speaking it would be nicer to carry more modern bombs.
This config will never be used. No one will risk a 5th gen fighter in low flight bombing.

This photos are not from trials start
PAK FA is not a merchandise, it is a weapon of real war, so its testing goes without looking into customers side.
FGFA will be merchandise and will be properly advertised for sure.

And yes, it is much easier to start testing with a simple things first.

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[Yumdoot]

It's NOT T-50-6-2, but photo is georgeus:

That sensor head on the back will give some fantastic coverage for some really long distances.

A full 4 pi steradian coverage may not even be required with such a big thing installed.

Wish they were putting in rear hemisphere firing R-73s in it. :biggrin2:

 

[smestarz]

I do know the facts, But buying 100 Meteors in 2018 for a Rafale fleet which as of now 120 air craft or so, does not really show your confidence in that system as you say
But like you say, it helps in marketing.
It helps because the customer then understand that there are range of weapons for almost every target and that also in a way gives them confidence that their present stock of bombs and weapons could be used. Its not like their entire stock of weapons have to be just scrapped

Facts :
- Meteor will be induced on french Rafale as far as 2018.
- France only ordered 100 pcs to date. We don't think such a range is usefull, but.... in case of.
- It was just impossible to let EF and Gripen with such a weapon without integrating it on Rafale. Marketing reason mainly.

Facts these are, only facts.

 

[gadeshi]

That sensor head on the back will give some fantastic coverage for some really long distances.

A full 4 pi steradian coverage may not even be required with such a big thing installed.

Wish they were putting in rear hemisphere firing R-73s in it. :biggrin2:

This is not a sensor but IR missiles HEL suppressor 101KS-O.

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[BON PLAN]

I do know the facts, But buying 100 Meteors in 2018 for a Rafale fleet which as of now 120 air craft or so, does not really show your confidence in that system as you say
But like you say, it helps in marketing.
It helps because the customer then understand that there are range of weapons for almost every target and that also in a way gives them confidence that their present stock of bombs and weapons could be used. Its not like their entire stock of weapons have to be just scrapped

My opinion is that Meteor will be used only for :
Rafale Marine, because deconfliction is easyer on sea.
To escort AWACS and tankers.

And another batch of Meteor can be purchased.

First order was 200 or 250 pièces, but cut in defense budget ....

 

[gadeshi]

My opinion is that Meteor will be used only for :
Rafale Marine, because deconfliction is easyer on sea.
To escort AWACS and tankers.

And another batch of Meteor can be purchased.

First order was 200 or 250 pièces, but cut in defense budget ....

You don't even know what LRAAMs are for...
As your MOD as well...
LRAAMs are for:
1 - Force multipliers destruction - knocking down AWACS-es, JSTARS, ESM/ECM crafts, tankers, RF retranslators (flying relays).
2 - ALCMs intercept.

None of them are for Rafale due to weak radar (comparable to heavy fighters of course), weak supersonic envelope (important for interceptor) and high visibility (important for FDOW agressor/interdictor).

But, it is normal for EU main fighter concept optimized for peace time service and completely dependent from US heavies support in real A-A action.

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[Yumdoot]

This is not a sensor but IR missiles HEL suppressor 101KS-O.

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Right.

Though housing a laser in a spherical housing looked too radical. Nearly all of lasers we see are housed behind a flat screen.

Anyhow do you have have the MAWS placement illustration with you for PAKFA.

I was under the wrong impression that the Lasers would be flat faced and MAWS could afford to be behind a hemispherical housing.

But with such a big plane it can be loaded up with even more sensors and lasers. Why only this much ? Or probably there will be other things for future growth, if the need arises.

 

[smestarz]

For most action that France is involved in, I think Rafale M has been used more than other versions of Rafale
so in that case it does make sense to have Meteor on Rafale M.
Else it may be for the planes in air bases around Paris

My opinion is that Meteor will be used only for :
Rafale Marine, because deconfliction is easyer on sea.
To escort AWACS and tankers.

And another batch of Meteor can be purchased.

First order was 200 or 250 pièces, but cut in defense budget ....

 

[smestarz]

Meteor is LRAAM for Europe, but considering that
a) NATO Countries may not go against each other hence will be countries using maybe MiG-29 and Sukhoi 27 derivatives
b) AWACS will always be accompanied by powerful escort like MiG-29 and Su-27/30 which have a big radar and carry missiles having longer ranges than Meteor

Thus the LRAAM like Meteor might get used as an BVRAAM like R-77 etc, The russians have a specialised NOVATOR as AWACS killer at range of 400 kms.

You don't even know what LRAAMs are for...
As your MOD as well...
LRAAMs are for:
1 - Force multipliers destruction - knocking down AWACS-es, JSTARS, ESM/ECM crafts, tankers, RF retranslators (flying relays).
2 - ALCMs intercept.

None of them are for Rafale due to weak radar (comparable to heavy fighters of course), weak supersonic envelope (important for interceptor) and high visibility (important for FDOW agressor/interdictor).

But, it is normal for EU main fighter concept optimized for peace time service and completely dependent from US heavies support in real A-A action.

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[gadeshi]

Meteor is LRAAM for Europe, but considering that
a) NATO Countries may not go against each other hence will be countries using maybe MiG-29 and Sukhoi 27 derivatives
b) AWACS will always be accompanied by powerful escort like MiG-29 and Su-27/30 which have a big radar and carry missiles having longer ranges than Meteor

Thus the LRAAM like Meteor might get used as an BVRAAM like R-77 etc, The russians have a specialised NOVATOR as AWACS killer at range of 400 kms.

Yes, but 3 things:
1 - Novator's KS-172 project is closed, because R-37M (Item 710M) has the same range but less weight and size.
2 - It cannot be used by PAK FA internally (as well as R-37M) due to size and weight (R-37M due to size only - wing and stabilizers are too big even folded).
3 - Due to paragraph 2 there is completely new Item-810 LRAAM with 450km range but with lesser sizes to allow it to be used in T-50 MWBs. It is under flight tests now.

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[PaliwalWarrior]

Smestarz is only able to hate Rafale, day after day, and forum after forum.
He don't even know perfectly why...

At least never seen a Rafale with non guided bombs.... It's outdated.

A 5th gen fighter delivering 1st gen bombs....

So let me get this straight

The air to air gun is what gen ?

Is it guided or unguided ?

Does rafale have a air to air gun or not ?

Do you want me to continue on this line further ?

 

[BON PLAN]

So let me get this straight

The air to air gun is what gen ?

Is it guided or unguided ?

Does rafale have a air to air gun or not ?

Do you want me to continue on this line further ?

Continue my dear.
What does that prove ? PAK FA Doesn't have canon ?

No one will risk a $ multimillions aircraft to deliver free fall bomb. It's the job of SU25 Frogfoot !

 

[gadeshi]

Continue my dear.
What does that prove ? PAK FA Doesn't have canon ?
No one will risk a $ multimillions aircraft to deliver free fall bomb. It's the job of SU25 Frogfoot !

Yes, of course.
But noone will reject to add such a small piece to a masterpiece like certifying unguided weapons, especially for multi-million plane. And Dassault guys were not so stupid to reject Mk.80 series bombs sertification for Rafale.
The other point is where to use them (of course, the most appropriate platform for this is Su-34), but PAK FA is needed not only in a FDOW... And of course we should ask does the particular craft can use them effectively PAK FA can. As far as all the others in VKS (due to algorythms from SVP-24) which we could clearly see in Syria.

It's just a small option, not a trend. I see no reason to discuss it except for another weapon mark in the long list...

 

[BON PLAN]

You don't even know what LRAAMs are for...
As your MOD as well...
LRAAMs are for:
1 - Force multipliers destruction - knocking down AWACS-es, JSTARS, ESM/ECM crafts, tankers, RF retranslators (flying relays).
2 - ALCMs intercept.

None of them are for Rafale due to weak radar (comparable to heavy fighters of course), weak supersonic envelope (important for interceptor) and high visibility (important for FDOW agressor/interdictor).

But, it is normal for EU main fighter concept optimized for peace time service and completely dependent from US heavies support in real A-A action.

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And of course YOU know it better than others. Of course.... You are a proud russian !

Intercept ALCM ? absolutely sure not. Too small and stealth to be detected at such a range. It 's not a missile problem, but a search and track problem.

I gave my explanation about why so few Meteor ordered. And just see how even medium missile (not to speak about LRAAM) are fired at max range.... these range are quite useless except for Awacs, tanker...

And non officials datas about Meteor give a ballistic range of more than 250km.... enough for a slow moving target as tanker and AWACS.

 

[gadeshi]

And of course YOU know it better than others. Of course.... You are a proud russian !

No comment for this for Friench, whos nation never had MiG-31

Intercept ALCM ? absolutely sure not. Too small and stealth to be detected at such a range. It 's not a missile problem, but a search and track problem.

Yes. Not for Rafale, as I've mentioned in the previous post.
But OK for Su-30SM, Su-35S and MiG-31.
MiG-31 could detect and track 15 ALCMs at once and hit 4 of them at once with 4 R-33/S on 130km range with no hassle in the mid 80-s

I gave my explanation about why so few Meteor ordered. And just see how even medium missile (not to speak about LRAAM) are fired at max range.... these range are quite useless except for Awacs, tanker...

As I've said in Paragraph 1. Destroy force multipliers.
Any other intercept except ALCMs is impossible on this range because you should fire on maneuvered target with ECM protection.

And non officials datas about Meteor give a ballistic range of more than 250km.... enough for a slow moving target as tanker and AWACS.

So when (rather like IF) it will ever fly even on 120km (which is unlikely), then we'll talk about this pseudo-scientific fiction seriousely

 

[BON PLAN]

For most action that France is involved in, I think Rafale M has been used more than other versions of Rafale
so in that case it does make sense to have Meteor on Rafale M.
Else it may be for the planes in air bases around Paris

Why specially protecting Paris? No need of MRAAM or LRAAM because we need to opticaly identify a suspect plane. MICA more than enough. And canon (you know, the 5th generation weapon...) to show your determination before a shoot.

 

[BON PLAN]

No comment for this for Friench, whos nation never had MiG-31

What's the link ?
How many long range missile a Mig25/31 fired operationnaly? zzzzeeerrrroooo or near.

But some were fired over Irak by F15/16....