Sukhoi PAK FA

[p2prada]

Pak-Fa may originally be delivered to RuAF in 2014 (The final prototypes)

Introduction is planned in 2015

Currently they r working on integrating new missiles, new " Gold plated F-22 styled Stealth Cockpit" and may go for flat nozzles.....which i am personally highly doubtful...

@ p2prada @ Austin Sirs r Russians goin to develop some new RAM material Skin on Pak fa.....some told me Su-47 berkut had them on limited surface areas....

Yes. The Russian keep developing new RAM coatings every few years. The Mig-21 Bison has RAM coating, and so does the MKI. The Mig-29UPG will see new RAM coating too.

There is very little news about RAM on MKI, but it is there. According to the Russians, the RAM coating on the Mig-21 Bison reduced RCS by 14-15 times. On the Mig-29UPG it is set to reduce by 4-5 times.

There will be a generation difference in the RAM that will go on the PAKFA.

If you are talking about a F-35 style honey comb jackets, then I doubt it. Maybe it is an option on FGFA.

Flat nozzles do little to reduce RF (radio frequency) stealth, but it reduces IR (infrared) stealth. But flat nozzles reduce power by 10 to 20%. What the PAKFA needs is a radar blocker for both the inlet and the exhaust. F-22 has a radar blocker in the exhaust, the F-35 doesn't. One major reason why F-35 isn't considered to be all aspect stealth, unlike F-22 and PAKFA.

A lot of questions on PAKFA remain unanswered to date. We simply have to wait for more information and Aero India-2013 and MAKS-2013 is the best bet for some of the answers. Over the next 6 years we will know a lot more about the aircraft.

 

[Shirman]

Sir 1 imp question

in one history channel Dogfights of the future documentary the scenario where a b767 aew&c came in response to f-22 to spot a berkut or Supposedly ruski stealth plane.....

How aew&cs of the future play role in Stealth to Stealth scenario..........

What i meant is an aew and Vlo fighter combo is sufficient to counter U.S. made stealth....

 

[Shirman]

Some say PAK FA IT SELF IS A mini Aew&c with various band radars....

Only if India develops say a steath Uav/Ucav it will be a better ac compliment while dealing with any scenario.........

 

[DivineHeretic]

What could happen with the advent of the all steath aircraft era is that air combat will take a step back in time to the beginning of the jet age,where majority of the engagements were in in WVR, only difference being that the aircraft will be worth a couple of hundred million.


Note that is just a wild fantasy, and will hopefully in no way reflect reality.

 

[Shirman]

Ok...let me make 1 scenario....

Lets say F-22, F-35 were to take on a target deep in enemy territory.....

Enemy has S-300 PMU , LR-Sams say SA-6 gainful....,Akash battery's....all integrated to say a ground based network of Passive radars say Tamara, Vera.....

Also the enemy has PAK-FA for air interception with Aura stealth type UAV for air policing.......

I know this is too much but if i were an proudy american fan boy i would say the mission can be accomplished by the stealth duo.....

question is will it still cut the cake.....:cool2:

 

[p2prada]

Sir 1 imp question

in one history channel Dogfights of the future documentary the scenario where a b767 aew&c came in response to f-22 to spot a berkut or Supposedly ruski stealth plane.....

How aew&cs of the future play role in Stealth to Stealth scenario..........

What i meant is an aew and Vlo fighter combo is sufficient to counter U.S. made stealth....

The future will see attempts at making the AEW&C and other support assets VLO too, including transports. So, that would mean the AEW&C would also be stealthy. Current gen AEW&C will not be able to pick up VLO aircraft without significant upgrades. In around two decades the RCS of F-22 will easily be picked up by radars of the time. But today, it is not the case.

But yeah, the current plans are to use VLO and AEW&C assets in tandem to counter other VLO aircraft. There isn't much of a choice there. AEW&C can use VHF, L or S band for volume search, detect a VLO aircraft and send in the F-22/PAKFA to take it out.

Some say PAK FA IT SELF IS A mini Aew&c with various band radars....

Only if India develops say a steath Uav/Ucav it will be a better ac compliment while dealing with any scenario.........

Any aircraft with a very good radar can be made to function like a mini AEW&C. Basically the fighter will provide targets to other fighters and will act as a command node. MKI already performs such duties and the radar can use two bands, L band for volume search and X band for all other roles.

Stealthy UCAVs are too small as of today to support air combat. They can only be used as a recce or strike missions. Maybe in the 2040-50 period we will see the advent of 6th gen aircraft like how we have 5th gen aircraft coming up today.

The Americans are planning an optionally manned or fully unmanned heavy aircraft in a program called Next Generation Air Dominance for the 2025-30 period to replace the Super Hornet. This may very well be the first among many UCAVs that can perform adequately in an air combat scenario. The USAF is currently planning a F-22 replacement as well.

As of today, all UCAVs that are planned or are concepts are meant for recce and strike missions, including AURA, maybe even SEAD.

 

[p2prada]

Ok...let me make 1 scenario....

Lets say F-22, F-35 were to take on a target deep in enemy territory.....

Enemy has S-300 PMU , LR-Sams say SA-6 gainful....,Akash battery's....all integrated to say a ground based network of Passive radars say Tamara, Vera.....

Also the enemy has PAK-FA for air interception with Aura stealth type UAV for air policing.......

I know this is too much but if i were an proudy american fan boy i would say the mission can be accomplished by the stealth duo.....

question is will it still cut the cake.....:cool2:

They will eat everything and go home.

Only PAKFA will put up a fight as long as they find their enemy.

AURA will be pointless.

 

[Somreet Bhattacharya]

Sir 1 imp question

in one history channel Dogfights of the future documentary the scenario where a b767 aew&c came in response to f-22 to spot a berkut or Supposedly ruski stealth plane.....

How aew&cs of the future play role in Stealth to Stealth scenario..........

What i meant is an aew and Vlo fighter combo is sufficient to counter U.S. made stealth....

See..the US made Stealth fighters are not yet proven..in actual combat..nor have they faced any proper AEW platform operating an AESA radar..once they do it will be proven..which I doubt anyway..

 

[Somreet Bhattacharya]

My question here is..what can we classify the PAKFA as...heavy fighter or a medium fighter....??

 

[p2prada]

My question here is..what can we classify the PAKFA as...heavy fighter or a medium fighter....??

Heavy, of course. MTOW or max weight is expected to be 34 tonnes.

LCA is at 16 tonnes, classified light and AMCA is at 25 tonnes, classified medium.

 

[arnabmit]

PAK FA
Empty weight: 18,500 kg (40,786 lb)
Loaded weight: 26,000 kg (57,320 lb)

So its a more or less medium fighter. FGFA might be similar.

AFAIK...
< 15mt : Light (eg: Tejas, Harrier, JF-17 etc.)
>15, <30mt : Medium (eg: EF Typhoon, Rafale, F-16, F-18, MiG-27, Su-27, Su-35 etc.)
>30mt : Heavy (eg: F-22, F-35? etc.)

Maybe only US uses heavy fighters...

BTW... if you consider MTOW, then the equation changes.

My question here is..what can we classify the PAKFA as...heavy fighter or a medium fighter....??

 

[t_co]

Quick question: what is the timeframe for formal induction of the FGFA into IAF service?

 

[arnabmit]

minimum 2022

Quick question: what is the timeframe for formal induction of the FGFA into IAF service?

 

[t_co]

minimum 2022

Got it. Thanks!

 

[p2prada]

PAK FA
Empty weight: 18,500 kg (40,786 lb)
Loaded weight: 26,000 kg (57,320 lb)

So its a more or less medium fighter. FGFA might be similar.

AFAIK...
< 15mt : Light (eg: Tejas, Harrier, JF-17 etc.)
>15, <30mt : Medium (eg: EF Typhoon, Rafale, F-16, F-18, MiG-27, Su-27, Su-35 etc.)
>30mt : Heavy (eg: F-22, F-35? etc.)

Maybe only US uses heavy fighters...

BTW... if you consider MTOW, then the equation changes.

Among air superiority fighters, the only aircraft heavier than the Su-35/MKI is the F-22.

You are confused about empty weight, loaded weight and MTOW for Flankers and other aircraft.

Heavy fighters,

E = Empty weight, L = Loaded weight

MKI/Su-35BM
E = 18.5T
L = ~25T (half fuel)
MTOW = 38.8T

F-22
E = ~20T
L = 29T
MTOW = 38T

F-35A
E = ~13T
L = ~23T
MTOW = 31T

Mig-31
E = ~22T
L = ~40T
MTOW = ~47T

For medium aircraft

Rafale

E = 9.5T
L = 14.5T
MTOW = ~25T

This should give you an example of how the Flankers compare.

 

[arnabmit]

My bad... thangs for the correction.

Among air superiority fighters, the only aircraft heavier than the Su-35/MKI is the F-22.

You are confused about empty weight, loaded weight and MTOW for Flankers and other aircraft.

Heavy fighters,

E = Empty weight, L = Loaded weight

MKI/Su-35BM
E = 18.5T
L = ~25T (half fuel)
MTOW = 38.8T

F-22
E = ~20T
L = 29T
MTOW = 38T

F-35A
E = ~13T
L = ~23T
MTOW = 31T

Mig-31
E = ~22T
L = ~40T
MTOW = ~47T

For medium aircraft

Rafale

E = 9.5T
L = 14.5T
MTOW = ~25T

This should give you an example of how the Flankers compare.

 

[p2prada]

Quick question: what is the timeframe for formal induction of the FGFA into IAF service?

As of today we know there will be 3 prototypes delivered to India. That's in 2014, 2017 and 2019 (officially known dates).

So, final production model will be delivered in 2019 which would mean a full squadron induction around 2022.

However, for full squadron induction to happen the first deliveries would most probably take place a few months after 2019 and go on until 2022 for 18 - 21 aircraft.

 

[Somreet Bhattacharya]

That sounds like, it will take the T-90/Arjun route once AMCA takes to air (if ever it does)....

 

[average american]

As of today we know there will be 3 prototypes delivered to India. That's in 2014, 2017 and 2019 (officially known dates).

So, final production model will be delivered in 2019 which would mean a full squadron induction around 2022.

However, for full squadron induction to happen the first deliveries would most probably take place a few months after 2019 and go on until 2022 for 18 - 21 aircraft.

Ten years, one wonders if todays technology might be obsolete in air warfare in ten years.

 

[SPIEZ]

Ten years, one wonders if todays technology might be obsolete in air warfare in ten years.

You should the know famed F-16 was developed in the 70's