Sri Lanka expels 161 foreign Muslim clerics, including Indians

[Galaxy]

This is not the non Muslims fault...... many Muslims communities in SL are not opened to public... and non Muslims dare not to go into those places.. they prefer to be a different group rather than to integrate into the society.

This is the problem in every country.

 

[Ray]

This is the problem in every country.

Why is it so and why are the govts helpless?

 

[Galaxy]

Why is it so and why are the govts helpless?

I believe, Muslims prefer ghettoization/concentrated areas where they are minority. Normally, they don't mix-up with other community/ethnic groups. Recently, German chancellor said the same, That Muslims failed to integrate in Europe. Feeling for religious identity is more important that country integrity for large no. of Muslims.

Then one more reason is, For some, Muslim world is more important than own country. Whenever, there is some issue in Middle-east, Muslims of every country have some strong opinion even when country has nothing to do that. Sometime, problem in small area of Gaza is more important than their own country. They even blame the country where they living when religion comes. It's "Muzloom mentality". Also, Most of the Islamic groups are funded by KSA or Iran which is more of Muslim world.

Most of the country where Muslims are minority are actually secular country, Still they have problem. Govt. is helpless because they become aggressive for small penny religious thing. They don't want to see increase in radicalzation and terrorism. A small issue with Sikh/Hindu in France dies out in no time with peaceful protest and a cartoon invites riot, fatwas, burning of building, rebellion nature against gov in country as well as the world. In short, Everywhere, For Muslims, Islam comes 1st whereas all other religion including Christians prefer the country 1st. This is what i feel.

 

[Ray]

I believe, Muslims prefer ghettoization/concentrated areas where they are minority. Normally, they don't mix-up with other community/ethnic groups. Recently, German chancellor said the same, That Muslims failed to integrate in Europe. Feeling for religious identity is more important that country integrity for large no. of Muslims.

Then one more reason is, For some, Muslim world is more important than own country. Whenever, there is some issue in Middle-east, Muslims of every country has some strong opinion even when country has nothing to do that. Sometime, problem in small area of Gaza is more important than their own country. They even blame the country where they living when religion comes. It's "Muzloom mentality". Also, Most of the Islamic groups are funded by KSA or Iran which is more of Muslim world.

Most of the country where Muslims are minority are actually secular country, Still they have problem. Govt. is helpless because they become aggressive for small penny religious thing. They don't want to see increase in radicalzation and terrorism. A small issue with Sikh/Hindu in France dies out in no time with peaceful protest and a cartoon invites riot, fatwas, burning of building, rebellion nature against gov in country as well as the world. In short, Everywhere, For Muslims, Islam comes 1st whereas all other religion including Christians prefer the country 1st. It's just what i feel.

Personally, I feel that the whole problem is the issue of Dar ul Harb and Dar ul Islam.

It is ingrained and a good and pious Muslim, rightly, cannot divorce onself from the religious diktats, no matter how educated he or she may be.

Islamic rules are quite strict and without flexibility!

Can't blame them!

 

[The Messiah]

I dont see anything wrong with this move.

They were on tourist visa so behave like a tourist or get thrown out.

 

[agentperry]

everybody is gathering their forces and everyone needs something more than just a paper to put their faith on other-religion might become a new i card.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

What where foreign Mullas doing in sri-lanak? Do they even understand or respect the diffrences in their society?

Only sky is the limit for sri-lanka if it chooses to go on the path of development.

 

[Galaxy]

Personally, I feel that the whole problem is the issue of Dar ul Harb and Dar ul Islam.

It is ingrained and a good and pious Muslim, rightly, cannot divorce onself from the religious diktats, no matter how educated he or she may be.

Islamic rules are quite strict and without flexibility!

Can't blame them!

Yes, True. But isn't this against the integrity of the country ?

Why Muslims prefer so called "Muslim areas" and i am not saying about Delhi or Mumbai, But it's everywhere in the world. If they will not mix-up or better i say they don't prefer living with other community, How come distance between communities will decrease ? Indeed, It's going to increase more and more.

As HeinzGud said, Non-Muslims mostly don't prefer going to Muslim areas for known/unknown reason. Even I don't remember when last time went to so called Muslim areas of Delhi. There is always doubt on them which is sometime true and sometime untrue. But doubt will remain forever until, they mix with society

I won't shy to say, Muslims wherever they are minority, Largely failed to integrate with other religion/ethnic. I don't see, things going to improve in years to come.

 

[Ray]

I dont see anything wrong with this move.

They were on tourist visa so behave like a tourist or get thrown out.

That is a good one.

Come as tourist till you are caught and use the time to convert!

Good one, that!

And yet, everyone goes whole hog to criticise the Christian chaps for doing the same, and more openly!

 

[Ray]

Why Muslims prefer so called "Muslim areas" and i am not saying about Delhi or Mumbai, But it's everywhere in the world. If they will not mix-up or better i say they don't prefer living with other community, How come distance community will decrease ? Indeed, It's going to increase more and more.

Could they be feeling guilty of the Partition?

Could they feel that they are socially inferior?

Could they feel that their way of lifestyle is a bit archaic and so are embarrassed?

One cannot answer.

It is too technical and confusing!

My Muslim friends, who are educated and social mobile, even though very Muslim, don't feel the same.

In fact, one shocked the gathering by saying that it was good that the Babri Mazjid was demolished since it was defiled by placing of the Hindu gods inside!

 

[Tronic]

Why are the Muslims being targeted in Sri Lanka?

Have been successful in converting the Buddhists of Sri Lanka/

If so, how many?

And why are the Buddhists, who follow a peaceful religion, are being converted to a religion that is supposed to be a religion of peace, but is not that peaceful as Buddhism practised by Sri Lankans?

Tablighi, the Muslims claim, is a peace loving organisation that only spread the goodness of Islam but does not demand that people convert without their own will!

Why does every thread have to be turned into Islam vs "us" thread?

It is quite clear from the article that it were local Sri Lankan Muslims themselves who had issues with these clerics:

The official also said that some local Muslims had complained that the visitors were not teaching a moderate form of Islam.

Quite clearly it is more of a moderates vs radicals issue rather than a "Islamic boogeyman" vs "us" issue.

 

[KS]

A related thread...a bit different reaction there.

http://defenceforumindia.com/religion-culture/22652-american-tourists-conversion-drive-asked-leave-3.html

A related news from India

INDIA Kerala: U.S. evangelical pastor William Lee expelled - Asia News

 

[HeinzGud]

Pol pot was a Maoist - atheist. Also, oppressive regimes are not representative of the people. The same applies to Myanmar.

I cannot think of a bigger genocide than what happened in SL among Buddhist dominated nations. Any way, these are my views only. You are free to disagree.

sorry for going off topic but I think trackwhack should posts evidence to show Buddhists committed genocide in SL or else it is very unfair to call SL Buddhist are the worst in the world.....

 

[ejazr]

As Ray indicated, the TJ group specifically focuses on Muslims and is not a missionary group that converts people to Islam. Even the news reports indicate that the "preaching" was within the Muslim community. This is one of the reasons Salafist/Wahabbist groups attack the TJ as being a deviant group. That they don't convert other people to Islam actively. The second attack is usually on its sufi practices and importance given to elders and saints.

And participants are not even clerics or Maulanas really. They come from a wide range of people from all walks of life. Each participant is supposed to fund their own travel expenses for the duration of the period of their travels. But the participants should have applied on the religious visa as per law instead of the tourist visa.

Foreign Tabligh Jamaat members given grace period to leave | Breaking News
The group of 161 foreigners of the 'Tabligh Jamaat' movement who have been asked to leave Sri Lanka for violating visa rules will be given a one-week grace period to leave the island, Senior Minister A. H. M. Fowzie told the Daily Mirror.

A meeting with the relevant stakeholders including officials of the Department of Muslim Religious and Cultural Affairs will be held at 2.00pm today to further discuss the issue, he said.

Minister Fowzie has also briefed Defence Secretary Gotabhaya Rajapaksa and Economic Development Minister Basil Rajapaksa on the Tabligh Jamaat movement.

"I explained that this movement has helped put the Muslim community on the right track. They encourage Muslims to pray, be honest in their business dealings and to act in accordance with the Quran. I pointed out that they have not come here to create problems but to help the community, and therefore they should be accommodated," Minister Fowzie said.

"The fact is that they were not aware that it is unlawful to engage in religious preaching while on a visit visa. They should have applied for a visa under the 'religious' category. So they will leave within a week and re-apply under this category," he said.

"Both Secretary Gotabhya Rakapaksa and Minister Basil Rajapaksa agreed that the foreign Tabligh Jamaat members can re-apply for a religious visa," Fowzie said.

Asked if he would be attending today's meeting at the Immigration and Emigration Department he said, "As a matter of protocol it is not right for me to go to government departments to meet officials there," he maintained.

To be accurate, its not even a formal organisation. Its like an open volunteer society, completely apolitical and focusing on self improvement and working within Muslims as well and work around the world. In fact, they do their work openly even in Israel while the HQ is situated in Delhi. IF they were actually involved in "Jihadi work", I think action would have been taken against them already. Infact, one of the largest gatherings happens in Bhopal every year where there is a BJP govt. and if there were conversions happening, they would have picked on it straightaway rather having the CM personally involved in its preparations.

We can discuss this group further as a separate thread if people are interested.

 

[ejazr]

...
.
In short, Everywhere, For Muslims, Islam comes 1st whereas all other religion including Christians prefer the country 1st. This is what i feel.

Well how you feel is not usually the reality

Here is a pew survey on America where Muslims are better educated and have higher incomes than average on the same issue versus Christians

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-08-22/...s-sampling-error-pew-research-center?_s=PM:US
Most Christians are more likely to describe themselves as Christian first and American second, according to a new CNN poll examining religious views in the United States.

The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll found that of the 750 Christians in the survey, 59 percent identify themselves first by their faith, then as Americans, while 36 percent described themselves in the reverse.

CNN's findings are not that different from those in a recent Pew Research Center poll on Muslim-American attitudes. In that poll, 47 percent of Muslims in America say they are Muslim first, American second. Younger Muslims were especially likely to feel that way: 60 percent of them responded they were Muslim first.

In other words, more Muslims in the US tend to regard themselves as Americans first Muslims second as compared to Christians Americans.
In any case, its the age of multiple identities and after all Islam is not a country just like Christianity is not a country. More worrisome would be loyalty to other countries as nation states are after all the dominant forces in International politics. Not religious affiliation.

 

[HeinzGud]

@ejazr

In other words, more Muslims in the US tend to regard themselves as Americans first Muslims second as compared to Christians Americans.
In any case, its the age of multiple identities and after all Islam is not a country just like Christianity is not a country. More worrisome would be loyalty to other countries as nation states are after all the dominant forces in International politics. Not religious affiliation.

I don't know about the America... but I can surely say that in 2011 WC match Pak vs SL, when Pak won crackers were lit to celebrated the movement by the Muslim communities living in Colombo... this action was heavily criticized by many people including some Muslims...

 

[Ray]

@ejazr



I don't know about the America... but I can surely say that in 2011 WC match Pak vs SL, when Pak won crackers were lit to celebrated the movement by the Muslim communities living in Colombo... this action was heavily criticized by many people including some Muslims...

Nothing unusual that should upset you.

As one of the leading Muslims in India, Shahabuddin said - Muslims are Muslims first and Indians later or words to that effect.

If Muslims win, that is paramount!

Everything else come later!

Can't blame them. That is what is so important in the religion!

 

[Ray]

Why does every thread have to be turned into Islam vs "us" thread?

It is quite clear from the article that it were local Sri Lankan Muslims themselves who had issues with these clerics:



Quite clearly it is more of a moderates vs radicals issue rather than a "Islamic boogeyman" vs "us" issue.

Why does this become an Islam vs us?

The answer is simple.

Why is it that Islam has a problem with everyone and not others?

Christians are also in great numbers in many countries. How come there is no such issues.

Maybe you could answer that so that I am and we all are educated!

Moderate and radicals?

How is it that the moderates are not taking on the radical as they can take on others that indicate the Islam is a religion of peace?

How about some radical stuff that has the moderates taking on the radical in a real cognizable way than some off hand chap making weak bleats?

Since you are a champion of peace, maybe you could help us!

 

[Tronic]

Why does this become an Islam vs us?

The answer is simple.

Sir, because of intolerance.

Why is it that Islam has a problem with everyone and not others?

I don't agree entirely with that, sir.

A news which in essence is dealing with the issue of Sri Lankan Muslims internal ideological clashes, was used to instigate and provoke a completely unrelated Islamic community vs Buddhist community contention; in this post;

Why are the Muslims being targeted in Sri Lanka?

Have been successful in converting the Buddhists of Sri Lanka/

If so, how many?

And why are the Buddhists, who follow a peaceful religion, are being converted to a religion that is supposed to be a religion of peace, but is not that peaceful as Buddhism practised by Sri Lankans?

Tablighi, the Muslims claim, is a peace loving organisation that only spread the goodness of Islam but does not demand that people convert without their own will!

That post had nothing to do with the article as the article clearly pointed out that;

1.) Muslims were not being "targeted", rather the Sri Lankan Muslims themselves were unhappy with this organization which they considered radical.

2.) The news had nothing to do with converting Buddhists.


It goes a long way in showing that the intolerance in our world isn't the trait of radical Muslims alone.

Christians are also in great numbers in many countries. How come there is no such issues.

Maybe you could answer that so that I am and we all are educated!

Moderate and radicals?

Sire, the issues are all there! The difference is all in what you choose to see and not to see.

I have already started to see the vilification against Christians in India beginning to prop up, though I will admit, the intolerance is still in its infancy.

It won't be long that some crackpots decide to "punish" innocent and defenceless Christians in some totally unrelated corner of India for the deeds done by the Christian crackpots in Assam or Tripura (NLFT, NSCN, MNCA, Baptist Church of Tripura, you take your pick). This will only spark off another cycle of young Christians taking towards their religion in more fervour and things go downhill from that point.

If you are sure, Brigadier, that such confrontations will only remain limited to Muslims, than please do explain to me the Khandamal riots of 2008.

Intolerant and Radical Muslims, Christians, Hindus or Sikhs feed off each other and make each other stronger. It is only the Moderates who become the targets and end up on the loosing side.

How is it that the moderates are not taking on the radical as they can take on others that indicate the Islam is a religion of peace?

How about some radical stuff that has the moderates taking on the radical in a real cognizable way than some off hand chap making weak bleats?

The moderates, especially in India, have raised their voice each and every time some crackpot Mullah has said something intolerant or stupid. The only difference is that you choose to give more importance to what a crackpot Mullah says, than to what the moderates say!

It is not too far away from the Pakistanis, who label Bal Thackeray to be the sole voice of the Hindus and the supreme ruler of India!

You choose to give more importance to leaders who better fit your agenda.

Since you are a champion of peace, maybe you could help us!

I'm not a Champion of Peace, far from it!

Rather, just someone who tries to call spade a spade.

 

[Armand2REP]

I am suprised they aren't kicking out the hoards of Christian missionaries.