SpaceX Successfully Lands A Giant Falcon 9 Rocket For The First Time

[Varahamihira]

They have their skin everywhere except in industries with big govt. presence. They do not know whether govt. will continue to outsource the job or not. This policy uncertainty on govt. part is the biggest problem.

We need some crazy Millionaires/Billionaires.
Or there is a second thing, that is, inspire the common man to innovate.Show the magic of science and tech to most of the villages,towns and cities.This is a slow process but will change the mindset of the country towards innovation permanently.

 

[salute]

They have their skin everywhere except in industries with big govt. presence. They do not know whether govt. will continue to outsource the job or not. This policy uncertainty on govt. part is the biggest problem.

so pvt.sector not gonna do anything until govt.makes strong policy,

strong policy making not gonna happen because loksabha,rajya sabha not gonna work,

they not gonna work until millions of fcking bs indian political parties not gonna work together,

every economy or industrial backwardness is because of govt. policies,

even strong govt. like modi govt. are gets trapped never ending bs elections,

not talking about state elections but fcuking district,municipal,rural,

what a load of bs,

blame to stupid indians and their unnecessary,stupid,unreasonable obsessions of politics,

meaning how many bs elections indians gonna have each year.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

so pvt.sector not gonna do anything until govt.makes strong policy,

strong policy making not gonna happen because loksabha,rajya sabha not gonna work,

they not gonna work until millions of fcking bs indian political parties not gonna work together,

every economy or industrial backwardness is because of govt. policies,

even strong govt. like modi govt. are gets trapped never ending bs elections,

not talking about state elections but fcuking district,municipal,rural,

what a load of bs,

blame to stupid indians and their unnecessary,stupid,unreasonable obsessions of politics,

meaning how many bs elections indians gonna have each year.

I don't trust Reliance for doing anything. But other Indian firms are decent.

I am not sure if they need legislation by LS and RS to open the space sector. It is like they hiked FDI limit through cabinet order. But forget about it!

 

[salute]

We need some crazy Millionaires/Billionaires.
Or there is a second thing, that is, inspire the common man to innovate.Show the magic of science and tech to most of the villages,towns and cities.This is a slow process but will change the mindset of the country towards innovation permanently.

there are many crazy indian millionaire and billionaire,

but they are spending on becoming monk.

 

[AnantS]

^Don't worry about the race! Race was on for many decades before India's Space Industry matured. SpaceX or Blue Origin are not new and only Space- Private sector companies in US. Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Hughes were in this business since ages.

I would rather want India to focus on developing reliable cost effective reusable systems than wining any race. A system like that alone will help boost India's market. Think this way, until SpaceX outsources Falcon 9 and derivatives manufacturing to China, the clones in China or alternative reusable launch systems in India will always be cheaper whenever they are realized.

Before Indian Industry can launch completely on its own, it needs to mature on component level manufacturing, and that is why ISRO outsources components manufacturing. Now ISRO will also share comm satellite manufacturing and related ground infra handling tech to private companies. So things are happening in that direction.

Just outsourcing to private sector does not auto-magically solve issues. Indian private Industry will hesitate to spend on research. And if past record is seen, Indian private Industry R&D record is not stellar compared to ISRO or even DRDO.

If Indian industry is really interested in space, they should form consortium and pool money for research, just like Maruti, Tata and Mahindra are now pooling money to develop common components for EV vehicles.

 

[salute]

I don't trust Reliance for doing anything. But other Indian firms are decent.

I am not sure if they need legislation by LS and RS to open the space sector. It is like they hiked FDI limit through cabinet order. But forget about it!

not specifically about space sector but other economy and industries ventures on which they rely on.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

^Don't worry about the race! Race was on for many decades before India's Space Industry matured. SpaceX or Blue Origin are not new and only Space- Private sector companies in US. Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Hughes were in this business since ages.

I would rather want India to focus on developing reliable cost effective reusable systems than wining any race. A system like that alone will help boost India's market. Think this way, until SpaceX outsources Falcon 9 and derivatives manufacturing to China, the clones in China or alternative reusable launch systems in India will always be cheaper whenever they are realized.

Before Indian Industry can launch completely on its own, it needs to mature on component level manufacturing, and that is why ISRO outsources components manufacturing. Now ISRO will also share comm satellite manufacturing and related ground infra handling tech to private companies. So things are happening in that direction.

Just outsourcing to private sector does not auto-magically solve issues. Indian private Industry will hesitate to spend on research. And if past record is seen, Indian private Industry R&D record is not stellar compared to ISRO or even DRDO.

If Indian industry is really interested in space, they should form consortium and pool money for research, just like Maruti, Tata and Mahindra are now pooling money to develop common components for EV vehicles.

Don't tell me that Indians do not invest in R&D. They do when needed and returns are expected. Pharma and automobile being prime examples. Space and defense works on govt. contracts and hence the unease among private players.

 

[AnantS]

Private players are always involved but we are talking of nodal space research firm. India does not provide guarantee like US to its start-ups. SpaceX was given contract for supplying cargo to international space ship much before it matured. Something that you would not see in India. And so private firms would not invest.

Sakal it will take time, our current filthy rich Industrialists are risk averse, most have Lala mentality. That is firmly believing in how to make or be as much as close to dictum"Hing Lage na Phatkari...". Expensive R&D is not their cup of tea right now. Indian Govt does not have capital to splurge on multiple nodal space research firms. Even SpaceX success was ensured because its staff is practically ex Nasa and Nasa did a lot of hand holding.

India is also going in that direction albeit in a gradual way while minding its Industry's means and capability. As a immediate next planned by ISRO is allowing private Industry to manufacture its own satellite and do the ground handling

 

[Varahamihira]

^Don't worry about the race! Race was on for many decades before India's Space Industry matured. SpaceX or Blue Origin are not new and only Space- Private sector companies in US. Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Hughes were in this business since ages.

I would rather want India to focus on developing reliable cost effective reusable systems than wining any race. A system like that alone will help boost India's market. Think this way, until SpaceX outsources Falcon 9 and derivatives manufacturing to China, the clones in China or alternative reusable launch systems in India will always be cheaper whenever they are realized.

Before Indian Industry can launch completely on its own, it needs to mature on component level manufacturing, and that is why ISRO outsources components manufacturing. Now ISRO will also share comm satellite manufacturing and related ground infra handling tech to private companies. So things are happening in that direction.

Just outsourcing to private sector does not auto-magically solve issues. Indian private Industry will hesitate to spend on research. And if past record is seen, Indian private Industry R&D record is not stellar compared to ISRO or even DRDO.

If Indian industry is really interested in space, they should form consortium and pool money for research, just like Maruti, Tata and Mahindra are now pooling money to develop common components for EV vehicles.

The race is to get or acquire the technology(through Govt. or other means) by private players and not winning something.Technology denial is a big factor and no one's gonna share it with us.That's why I'm saying next 15 years are very crucial for India.There will be accords signed regarding technology denial and cartels will be formed.That's why I want everything to be fast paced in the next 15years.We can't stay neutral for much longer and time will come where we have to decide on which cartel we will be joining or supporting.

 

[AnantS]

Don't tell me that Indians do not invest in R&D. They do when needed and returns are expected. Pharma and automobile being prime examples. Space and defense works on govt. contracts and hence the unease among private players.

Pharma granted but mostly its reverse engineering. Automobile sector is mostly via JV/Foreign subsidiary route and domestic track record is not that brilliant. Case in Point Tata trucks relies on Cummins and Ashok Leyland on Cummins or Hino engines. Mahindra is now leveraging Ssangyong for new family on engines, whereas Tata on Jaguar R&D. Their current crop of diesel engines for SUV's/cars are based on AVL design.

Granted Indian Govt contracts are risk prone, esp when cust is like Indian Army, and Indian Govt Orgs will to mature and warm towards joint ownership of R&D risk.

 

[AnantS]

The race is to get or acquire the technology(through Govt. or other means) by private players and not winning something.Technology denial is a big factor and no one's gonna share it with us.That's why I'm saying next 15 years are very crucial for India.There will be accords signed regarding technology denial and cartels will be formed.That's why I want everything to be fast paced in the next 15years.We can't stay neutral for much longer and time will come where we have to decide on which cartel we will be joining or supporting.

India was single handedly responsible for not joining this cartel in past and will not do so in future. US was pressurizing India to sign some agreement after which India could not have offered lower launch costs compared to other countries. They wanted to have cartel for Launch services just like oil but launchprices being decided by US. India flatly refused. The only immediate thing India should worry about is coming NPT kind of cartel on ASAT! India must test ASAT before that. Space Industry is relatively immune to denial because each country has to put in own efforts and rely on freely available COTS. Ban does not affect much! Sanctions never stopped ISRO launch services or its R&D.

 

[salute]

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad

yeah indian private companies will invest in space rocket if its needed,

but maybe its not on top off their list right now,

whats the demand for half of the rocket that returns back to earth,

and not forgetting spacex objective is to reduce the satellite launch cost,

and this all only for that purpose,

atleast for now,

and isro is good competitor cheap cost satellite launching,so private companies must be saying let isro do it,

its good for isro fundings,because many other bigger things isro requires to accomplish moon rover or maybe mars rover,manned space flight,

isro just requires to get that gslv a$$ off the ground,

spacex and others long time interest is to make going to earth orbit is simple as taking off of the commercial jetliner or even smaller private planes.

 

[CrYsIs]

I don't trust Reliance for doing anything. But other Indian firms are decent.

I am not sure if they need legislation by LS and RS to open the space sector. It is like they hiked FDI limit through cabinet order. But forget about it!

Most Indian private sector biggies are in dire financial situation and investing in Rocket launching business which is already saturated with big players like SpaceX,ULA,Russia,China,ESA would bring no financial gain to them.

 

[Illusive]

Falcon 9 is good, but quite complex procedure for recover! ISRO is pursuing other path: TSTO, with the first baby step in that direction being RLV-TD which could be tested coming feb.

Where would the 2nd stage land, BoB? cause you'd have to pick it up and deliver it back. How many times can it be reused. The space x way seem to be really efficient in terms of landing it directly to spaceport.

If the second stage have retractable wings it could do horizontal landing like the first stage. It would make the project more complex, but if the benefits are there in terms of cost then we should look into it.

 

[AnantS]

Where would the 2nd stage land, BoB? cause you'd have to pick it up and deliver it back. How many times can it be reused. The space x way seem to be really efficient in terms of landing it directly to spaceport.

If the second stage have retractable wings it could do horizontal landing like the first stage. It would make the project more complex, but if the benefits are there in terms of cost then we should look into it.

The way the picture in reference depicts, it is suppose to land near airbase. In Space X Falcon 9, its the first stage which lands back, second stage for now is not recovered, maybe for future they will work out something. Similarly in ISRO plans, its the first stage that is supposed to land back at airport. The second stage is recovered via parachute.

 

[pmaitra]

Thanks for the informative comparison @Sakal Gharelu Ustad. I will add that there are only two countries that have commercial launches of Polar Satellites. Not that others cannot, just that they don't.

Regarding the opinion of some members ( @Sakal Gharelu Ustad, @salute, @Bangalorean ), I see they are still living in their make believe world that private companies will come up with some magic pill. I wonder where such unfathomable and illusory faith in private companies comes from, given these companies cannot even make a world class car/truck engine without riding the coat-tails of some foreign company. Recently, we had a discussion on how GE and Alstom were going to make locomotives in India, which will be no better than the ones being made by our public sector units already. Then there was the 25 kN jet turbine developed by HAL. Whatever happened to the Indian private companies?

Private companies spend a lot of money in publicity. They are very good at that. Sorry to tell you this, as of today, private sector is not match for public sector when it comes to defence and space industry.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Thanks for the informative comparison @Sakal Gharelu Ustad. I will add that there are only two countries that have commercial launches of Polar Satellites. Not that others cannot, just that they don't.

Regarding the opinion of some members ( @Sakal Gharelu Ustad, @salute, @Bangalorean ), I see they are still living in their make believe world that private companies will come up with some magic pill. I wonder where such unfathomable and illusory faith in private companies comes from, given these companies cannot even make a world class car/truck engine without riding the coat-tails of some foreign company. Recently, we had a discussion on how GE and Alstom were going to make locomotives in India, which will be no better than the ones being made by our public sector units already. Then there was the 25 kN jet turbine developed by HAL. Whatever happened to the Indian private companies?

Private companies spend a lot of money in publicity. They are very good at that. Sorry to tell you this, as of today, private sector is not match for public sector when it comes to defence and space industry.

Indian defence is a closed sector where bribe will get you much farther than innovation. Do you really think private firms will invest in such a situation?

Private firms need to be backed by some guarantee for return on their investment. So, defence needs some controlled competition and some expected payoffs. Otherwise do not expect them to fund any research. Even USSR had Mikoyan vs Sukhoi to get some competitive results.

 

[AnantS]

The ideal situation is DRDO and other PSU take up R&D. Joint if possible. Once an item is developed, transfer to pvt Industry for promotion and mass production.

 

[salute]

@pmaitra

that public sector defence companies are decades behind when it comes to innovation,

always has been and always will be,

what @Sakal Gharelu Ustad told is must be correct,

the environment required for nourishment for the manufacturing or here specifically for innovation is not present in indian govt. and the indian manufacturing or business culture,

innovation means hugh investment in r&d and indian companies not gonna invest that tremendous amount of money in such corrupt environment,

specially when indian companies are competing with world and among themselves in this world economy.

 

[salute]

p.s.

@pmaitra

indian public defence or aerospace companies always gonna be behind when it comes to innovation because they do not require to compete with anyone in india,

and this drdo or hal only got to wait for next defence budget,
and it does not matters to them whether that defence budget is gonna more or less,

because they will get to keep their job and salary,

and only innovation what will be lag behind,

while when it comes to pvt. companies its about their survival,their jobs and salary,
so pvt. companies works fast,
because their next contract indian or foreign depends on their previous performance.