Solution to Kashmir keeping India's strategic interests in mind

The Messiah

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Yeah yeah, we know. Pak wants water, I not saying to hand over the entire state of J&K, but in the event of a war...let Pak army take over some parts of the valley (esp areas with high conc of valley muslims), meanwhile Indian Army concentrates on getting Gilgit . Multiple problems so
That will be counter productive. Pakis will not get an inch more.

No it did not. It followed the path of the Grand Trunk Road
 

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LurkerBaba

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btw land transport doesn't even make sense ! What we need is port access, since it's cheaper !

OT

Do you guys knows why most of the Islamic Empires fell? These empires made money of the massive trade between Europe, India and China over the Silk/Spice Routes. But then the Europeans invented steamships which made land routes obsolete (and expensive).

We don't need land access, port access is fine ! (Balochistan/Iran zindabad :D)
 
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Galaxy

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We don't have S-400.
AAD/PDV is not complete.
We have to BUY or/and develop/deploy. Possible in 5 years. I always said minimum 5 years needed.

Deterrence against? They don't have a no first use, they'll use the nukes at the first times of trouble, they don't stand a chance in conventional warfare.
We will destroy their strategic assets, Military bases and Nuke Installation by massive surgical strike in starting only.

That's just cold.
Not as cold as Moutains of Himalayas.


Wars are not fought on maybes we are talking of risking a nuclear conflict here, unless we have complete advantage no point in taking the risk. And China may not have helped them in 99, 71 but all these wars were not fought with a nuclear shadow looming, just as we would liketo end Pakistan for once and for all China would like to do the same to us.
I agree with you. War should not be fought on Ifs and Buts but with complete preparation and planning. We need to plan and implement all such concern in next 5 years minimum.

Why China will help Pakistan ?? Except proxy against India there is no such reason. Chinese never fought a full-fledge war in last few decades. We fought many. We will also have adequate preparation on China border. We can improve our defence on Chinese border, IOR and Strategic alliance with many of her neighbours. Anyway, I don't think China will indulge in such things with so much of risk without any reason. They never did and will never do also. What if U.S. enters such war. These are very hypothetical things which has very limited and minimal chance.

Again, we can't make a doctrine like this. Maybe a whimsical idiot is in power in Pakistan and decides to go MAD.
Idiot or Genius. No Pakistani will take risk for small retaliation with total destruction of Pakistan. Even if they do, Their survival will come in picture.

With the kind of conventional superiority we have, it won't matter. If nukes are out of the equation this war would be over pretty quickly.
why you thinking Pakistan will use Nuke ?? It's very unlikely and it would be major disadvantage for them only.

We are talking of an invasion here, there won't be any other time to use the nukes if not this.
Nuke is not made for use but for deterrence. How many times Nuke was used in last 100 years ?? Only once. Invasion ?? 100's of them. If they use, it would be major disadvantage for them only. BTW, we will destroy maximum in starting only.

We'd take massive losses too and GB is not worth it, at least not right now.
We will have very less losses and GB is not only worth but very important. Today, Tomorrow or any time in future. If we can't take, Then it's our loss. We should take it anyhow after few years of proper planning and preparation.
 
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The Messiah

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btw land transport doesn't even make sense ! What we need is port access, since it's cheaper !

OT

Do you guys knows why most of the Islamic Empires fell? These empires made money of the massive trade between Europe, India and China over the Silk/Spice Routes. But then the Europeans invented steamships which made land routes obsolete (and expensive).

We don't need land access, port access is fine ! (Balochistan/Iran zindabad :D)
what ?

central asian countries are land locked countries...where will they get ports from ?

we will also have rail link.
 

Dovah

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We have to BUY or/and develop/deploy. Possible in 5 years. I always said minimum 5 years needed.



We will destroy their strategic assets, Military bases and Nuke Installation by massive surgical strike in starting only.



Not as cold as Moutains of Himalayas.




I agree with you. War should not be fought on Ifs and Buts but with complete preparation and planning. We need to plan and implement all such concern in next 5 years minimum.

Why China will help Pakistan ?? Except proxy against India there is no such reason. Chinese never fought a full-fledge war in last few decades. We fought many. We will also have adequate preparation on China border. We can improve our defence on Chinese border, IOR and Strategic alliance with many of her neighbours. Anyway, I don't think China will indulge in such things with so much of risk without any reason. They never did and will never do also. What if U.S. enters such war. These are very hypothetical things which has very limited and minimal chance.



Idiot or Genius. No Pakistani will take risk for small retaliation with total destruction of Pakistan. Even if they do, Their survival will come in picture.



why you thinking Pakistan will use Nuke ?? It's very unlikely and it would be major disadvantage for them only.



Nuke is not made for use but for deterrence. How many times Nuke was used in last 100 years ?? Only once. Invasion ?? 100's of them. If they use, it would be major disadvantage for them only. BTW, we will destroy maximum in starting only.



We will have very less losses and GB is not only worth but very important. Today, Tomorrow or any time in future. If we can't take, Then it's our loss. We should take it anyhow after few years of proper planning and preparation.


Look, don't think I won't enjoy the day Pakistan is annihilated. But going to war for GB is not right.
Balochistan however would be a better deal, they hate Pakis, won't mind taking our help,will give us a port in the region for a naval base, link us to Afghanistan and Iran and also cut Pakistan from Iran...Win.
All we need to do is supply them with weapons, finance, bring Iran on board and BLF/A would do the rest, no need to take the risk of an outright invasion.
Once we have a stronghold in Balochistan we could then try to take out their nukes.
 

Galaxy

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Look, don't think I won't enjoy the day Pakistan is annihilated. But going to war for GB is not right.
Balochistan however would be a better deal, they hate Pakis, won't mind taking our help,will give us a port in the region for a naval base, link us to Afghanistan and Iran and also cut Pakistan from Iran...Win.
All we need to do is supply them with weapons, finance, bring Iran on board and BLF/A would do the rest, no need to take the risk of an outright invasion.
Once we have a stronghold in Balochistan we could then try to take out their nukes.
Well, I can understand your point mate. But you have to understand one thing that we neither have claim on Balochistan nor any connection with border area. That's why it has it's own limitation.

We should surely support them and it's strategically important too.

As I said, For GB - we need lots of preparation and planning and may be after few years or after decade we will be in good position to take GB too. Of course, Not in present situation.

Both Baluchistan and GB are important and we should focus on both.

If we will plan and prepare, Both possible at least GB as it's in our hand to prepare ourself.
 
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Dovah

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Well, I can understand your point mate. But you have to understand one thing that we neither have claim on Balochistan nor any connection with border area. That's why it has it's own limitation.

We should surely support them and it's strategically important too.

As I said, For GB - we need lots of preparation and planning and may be after few years or after decade we will be in good position to take GB too. Of course, Not in present situation.

Both Baluchistan and GB are important and we should focus on both.

If we will plan and prepare, Both possible at least GB as it's in our hand.
5 years is too short a time period to mount an advance on GB a decade at least with all our preparations focused on it , altering our doctrine and doing all this under the radar quite a tall order. then we need to equip ourselves to match this doctrine apart from that years of recon. infiltrate their armed forces, establish a spy network all this while maintaining cordial diplomatic relations and when the time and our economy is right just shock and awe.
Very difficult in a "democratic" government like ours, we'd need a stable, strong government, hopefully not a coalition government in power for two terms(maybe Congress, BJP) to come anywhere near achieving this.
 

civfanatic

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Just a thought. Kashmir insurgency would look like a walk in the park, if we do manage to get hold of PoK. :namaste:
Round up all the dissenters and send them to Bihar, while simultaneously allowing Biharis to settle PoK. This well get rid of the insurgency in no time.
 

Galaxy

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5 years is too short a time period to mount an advance on GB a decade at least with all our preparations focused on it , altering our doctrine and doing all this under the radar quite a tall order. then we need to equip ourselves to match this doctrine apart from that years of recon. infiltrate their armed forces, establish a spy network all this while maintaining cordial diplomatic relations and when the time and our economy is right just shock and awe.
Very difficult in a "democratic" government like ours, we'd need a stable, strong government, hopefully not a coalition government in power for two terms(maybe Congress, BJP) to come anywhere near achieving this.
I agree with you. We need serious preparation for that. It will take few years to many years.

I personally think, we are preparing for P.O.K., Our Cold doctrine is based on that too. We are trying to neutralize our Kashmir valley, waiting Pakistan to decline more, Dividing Pakistan on 3 sides including Arabian sea, trying to have strategic relation with A'than, Improving our defence capability. We have learnt the lesson from 1999 and 2002. By 2020, Our most of the Defence modernization will be completed which started only few years back.

Most important thing is we lack Political will. We need few strong leaders irrespective of political parties who can take some aggressive steps. I am sure, we will get one. Don't know when and who !!
 

civfanatic

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Question to Engineers:

Is it feasible to construct a land (rail?) link over Gilgit-Baltistan to connect the Wakhan Corridor with J&K state?
 

pmaitra

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Basically GB are not a part of POK. They are called "Northern Areas" under Pakistan. What Pakistanis call as "AJK" is only that thin strip with Muzaffarabad as the capital. Even if we have to for now leave Muzaffarabad worrying about inhospitable locals, Northern Areas still fall in our bag; which again, is the whole point of connecting to Afghanistan's Badaghshan corridor and onwards to Tajikistan.
You mean Wakhan Corridor? That was artificially created to separate Russian Empire from the British Indian Empire following the Great Game that was then being played. Afghanistan was the buffer state that separated India and Russia.

Let them invest and build all the roads they need to. We should simply prepare while they build these roads and then we can simply go ahead and take over that territory.
 

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