Solution to Kashmir keeping India's strategic interests in mind

[The Messiah]

If a person sharing a similar viewpoint like me were to gain power then make no mistake your "daydream" would turn into reality and a successful one at that.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Okay, if we do take over PoK, do you expect the populace to be friendly ? The Baltistanis might be neutral, but the guys near valley and close to Pak Punjab are 100% Pacqui

edit: people are suggesting that we skip "Azad Kashmir". Better suggestion, we let Pak take over the valleys muslims but we capture Gilgit (hypothetical of-course)

 

[Galaxy]

Okay if we do take over PoK, do you expect the populace to be friendly ? The Baltistanis might be neutral, but the guys near valley and close to Pak Punjab are 100% Pacqui

Although I already replied that answer. But let me say it again.

What does it matter ??

Population is only 0.5 Million in region which is size of our Punjab. 1/3rd are Shias and neutral/Pro India. 2/3rd are distributed in very wide areas. We can give make them support us very easily.

Kashmir Valley population is 4-5 Million......

Even if 0.3 Million won't agree we will have at least 2,00,000 army personnel there (We can move 14th or/and 15th Corps to GB as border will shift to A'than)

 

[LurkerBaba]

Although I already replied that answer. But let me say it again.

What does it matter ??

Population is only 0.5 Million in region which is size of our Punjab. 1/3rd are Shias and neutral/Pro India. 2/3rd are distributed in very wide areas. We can give make them support us very easily.

Kashmir Valley population is 4-5 Million......

Even if 0.3 Million won't agree we will have at least 2,00,000 army personnel there (We can move 14th or/and 15th Corps to GB as border will shift to A'than)

See my edit

edit: people are suggesting that we skip "Azad Kashmir". Better suggestion, we let Pak take over the valley muslims but we capture Gilgit (hypothetical of-course)

0.5 million is Gilgit. "Azad" Kashmir is 2.6million

 

[Dovah]

1st we need to deploy high number of ABM and Point/Air defence systems.

That's rhetorical, furthermore anything short of 80% efficiency won't cut it considering Pakistan is a neighbor and the reaction time is too low.

Now, 1st of all I don't think Pakistan will use Nuke as their 80% Industries/population are in 200 Km range. Our 300 Brahmos can destroy all militray instalment within an hour whereas most of our important strategic assets are more than 500-1,000 Km away. (they can't do anything except launching Ballistic Missile).

So you're counting on them not to use Nukes when their territorial integrity is threatened?
Just consider if they do decide to go nuclear, then what? I don't care how many Pakistanis die, but what if 50,000 Indians fall prey to a missile strike?
Is it acceptable damage?

Before moving our army in GB, 1st we will do massive surgical attack in 100-150 important Pak assets including Nuke plant. They can't stop !! Reason -- We can launch such attack from within our area as most of Pak assets are in 200 Km range. Brahmos/Prahar + MKI with Brahmos + K-100 will be deadly

Unless you plan to take out all their nuclear assets in one strike, forget it. And if our first strike is Nuclear, rest assured China would not waste time in throwing their shit at us.

Most of the assets are destroyed, We will march ahead.

Lets us assume by most you mean 90 of their nukes are neutralized, 10% that is 10 with most conservative estimates, remain. They throw them at us.

Everything will be tracked by Spy Satellite Risat-1,2.

The point being?

Huge defence will be ready to face such attack and get excuse to destroy them completely.

So we are not really annexing GB , simply destroying Pakistan, huge difference.

 

[Galaxy]

See my edit

0.5 million is Gilgit. "Azad" Kashmir is 3.6million

I know.

Azad Kashmir is not worth. We should avoid that. Population is highly concentrated in small area also There are 3 corps in Islamabad/ Pak Punjab to cover.

Only we need GB as it's very important for us. Azad Kashmir is not strategically important and risk is bigger too.

 

[Tshering22]

Okay, if we do take over PoK, do you expect the populace to be friendly ? The Baltistanis might be neutral, but the guys near valley and close to Pak Punjab are 100% Pacqui

The Gilgit and Baltistani (Treambakeshwar) people are not Pakistanis. They are being forced to. Even their assembly "speaker" said that in recording. It is all over the internet. Why do you think Pakistanis were so eager last year to actually shut the media out for sometime in the end?

Basically GB are not a part of POK. They are called "Northern Areas" under Pakistan. What Pakistanis call as "AJK" is only that thin strip with Muzaffarabad as the capital. Even if we have to for now leave Muzaffarabad worrying about inhospitable locals, Northern Areas still fall in our bag; which again, is the whole point of connecting to Afghanistan's Badaghshan corridor and onwards to Tajikistan.

So why are you worried about the real POK which barely connects anywhere close to Afghanistan? Here let me clarify; Sorry mods, I myself don't like this picture but attribute this to our first so-called PM. This is just for clarification:

See that tiny orange bit on extreme left? That's POK. the dark green-grey area is Northern Areas that connects us to Afghanistan, along with the brown Shaksgam Valley that Pakistanis illegally ceded to the bloody Reds.

So to reach Afghanistan, we can wait for POK to actually die out and then make a race for it before the Reds get to it. And they are already there. So we have an uphill task that can only happen after a political storm and change in our country.

 

[Adux]

All of PoK is filled with Pathan's and Punjabi's.......There is no way we can take over PoK without going nuclear.

 

[The Messiah]

Okay, if we do take over PoK, do you expect the populace to be friendly ? The Baltistanis might be neutral, but the guys near valley and close to Pak Punjab are 100% Pacqui

edit: people are suggesting that we skip "Azad Kashmir". Better suggestion, we let Pak take over the valleys muslims but we capture Gilgit (hypothetical of-course)

pak doesn't give a shit about muslims...it wants the land. it is using religion card as cover.

 

[LurkerBaba]

The Gilgit and Baltistani (Treambakeshwar) people are not Pakistanis. They are being forced to. Even their assembly "speaker" said that in recording. It is all over the internet. Why do you think Pakistanis were so eager last year to actually shut the media out for sometime in the end?

Basically GB are not a part of POK. They are called "Northern Areas" under Pakistan. What Pakistanis call as "AJK" is only that thin strip with Muzaffarabad as the capital. Even if we have to for now leave Muzaffarabad worrying about inhospitable locals, Northern Areas still fall in our bag; which again, is the whole point of connecting to Afghanistan's Badaghshan corridor and onwards to Tajikistan.

So why are you worried about the real POK which barely connects anywhere close to Afghanistan? Here let me clarify; Sorry mods, I myself don't like this picture but attribute this to our first so-called PM.

Yeah I don't give a crap about PoK. Also, I don't know how difficult the fight to retake Gilgit would be.

But a question: Is this "land link" actually useful ? I mean is it actually navigable or just for show on maps ?

Historical roads connecting India and Central Asia used a different route which did not pass through Gilgit

pak doesn't give a shit about muslims...it wants the land. it is using religion card as cover.

"Azad Kashmir" is full of Pak Punjabis who are patriotic Pakistanis. Getting rid of valley muslims is just an added bonus

 

[Galaxy]

That's rhetorical, furthermore anything short of 80% efficiency won't cut it considering Pakistan is a neighbor and the reaction time is too low.

It's advantage for us. S-300, S-400, AAD/PDV are for such purpose only (300 Km)

So you're counting on them not to use Nukes when their territorial integrity is threatened?
Just consider if they do decide to go nuclear, then what? I don't care how many Pakistanis die, but what if 50,000 Indians fall prey to a missile strike?
Is it acceptable damage?

I don't think They will use Nuke. It's their deterrence. In worst case scenario, They use Nuke and 50,000 Indian dies. Then we will destroy whole Pakistan (easy to do due to 80% population concentration near border). Problem will be solved forever. It's advantage. Already 1,00,000 Indians died in last 50 years in Pak centric terrorism/conflict/war.

Unless you plan to take out all their nuclear assets in one strike, forget it. And if our first strike is Nuclear, rest assured China would not waste time in throwing their shit at us.

Why should we forget ?? May be our Intel has such info. In one strike, It doesn't mean 1 Missile but 100's of Missiles. Even if they left with few which is possible, Will they risk for Survival ?? China is not fool country. They never helped Pakistan. Remember 1971,84 and 99 ?? They won't indulge in such things. We can also use few diplomatic card.

Lets us assume by most you mean 90 of their nukes are neutralized, 10% that is 10 with most conservative estimates, remain. They throw them at us.

For 10 such Nuke, We will have 100 of ABM Missiles at border to detect and destroy. Even if few Misses, What will happen to Pakistan ?? Not to forget, All destroyed Missiles wll fall in Pakistan area which is highly populated.

The point being?

We can track their troops/Missiles movement. Even our AWACS will be useful as Phalcon can cover whole Pakistan. It will be easier for us.

So we are not really annexing GB , simply destroying Pakistan, huge difference.

1st of all, I don't think They will use Nuke.

On hypothetical situation, If they use, It will be total destruction for them and still GB will be in our control too

 

[The Messiah]

7 pages and 63 posts and No one able to give and elaborate any valid reason why we can't take GB except few from Messiah and Pmaitra.

Most of the people have fixed Mindset that "Simply, We can't"

I think you have written it wrong....it implies i am against which i am not.

 

[The Messiah]

"Azad Kashmir" is full of Pak Punjabis who are patriotic Pakistanis.

They can be whatever but im talking about paki army/isi/civil zamindars...they want for different reason. They know India can switch off the tap anytime.

Pakis can keep pok and we can take similar size land from north west frontier province near afghan border along with gilgit and balistan.

 

[Galaxy]

Why people are discussing Azad Kashmir ?? it's not worth. It doesn't have any strategic importance also it would be difficult for us.

I never said anything about that. Only GB.

 

[Galaxy]

I think you have written it wrong....it implies i am against which i am not.

Yess....Sorry. typo error since i posted too much

 

[The Messiah]

Yeah I don't give a crap about PoK. Also, I don't know how difficult the fight to retake Gilgit would be.

But a question: Is this "land link" actually useful ? I mean is it actually navigable or just for show on maps ?

Historical roads connecting India and Central Asia used a different route which did not pass through Gilgit

silk route went through gilgit.

 

[Dovah]

It's advantage for us. S-300, S-400, AAD/PDV are for such purpose only (300 Km)

We don't have S-400.
AAD/PDV is not complete.

I don't think They will use Nuke. It's their deterrence. In worst case scenario, They use Nuke and 50,000 Indian dies. Then we will destroy whole Pakistan (easy to do due to 80% population concentration near border). Problem will be solved forever. It's advantage. Already 1,00,000 Indians died in last 50 years in Pak centric terrorism/conflict/war.

Deterrence against? They don't have a no first use, they'll use the nukes at the first times of trouble, they don't stand a chance in conventional warfare.

Problem will be solved forever. It's advantage. Already 1,00,000 Indians died in last 50 years in Pak centric terrorism/conflict/war.

That's just cold.

Why should we forget ?? May be our Intel has such info. In one strike, It doesn't mean 1 Missile but 100's of Missiles. Even if they left with few which is possible, Will they risk for Survival ?? China is not fool country. They never helped Pakistan. Remember 1971,84 and 99 ?? They won't indulge in such things. We can also use few diplomatic card.

Wars are not fought on maybes we are talking of risking a nuclear conflict here, unless we have complete advantage no point in taking the risk. And China may not have helped them in 99, 71 but all these wars were not fought with a nuclear shadow looming, just as we would liketo end Pakistan for once and for all China would like to do the same to us.

For 10 such Nuke, We will have 100 of ABM Missiles at border to detect and destroy. Even if few Misses, What will happen to Pakistan ?? Not to forget, All destroyed Missiles wll fall in Pakistan area which is highly populated.

Again, we can't make a doctrine like this. Maybe a whimsical idiot is in power in Pakistan and decides to go MAD.

We can track their troops/Missiles movement. Even our AWACS will be useful as Phalcon can cover whole Pakistan. It will be easier for us.

With the kind of conventional superiority we have, it won't matter. If nukes are out of the equation this war would be over pretty quickly.

1st of all, I don't think They will use Nuke.

On hypothetical situation, If they use, It will be total destruction for them and still GB will be in our control too.

We are talking of an invasion here, there won't be any other time to use the nukes if not this.

On hypothetical situation, If they use, It will be total destruction for them and still GB will be in our control too.

We'd take massive losses too and GB is not worth it, at least not right now.

 

[LurkerBaba]

They can be whatever but im talking about paki army/isi/civil zamindars...they want for different reason. They know India can switch off the tap anytime.

Pakis can keep pok and we can take similar size land from north west frontier province near afghan border along with gilgit and balistan.

Yeah yeah, we know. Pak wants water, I not saying to hand over the entire state of J&K, but in the event of a war...let Pak army take over some parts of the valley (esp areas with high conc of valley muslims), meanwhile Indian Army concentrates on getting Gilgit . Multiple problems so

silk route went through gilgit.

No it did not. It followed the path of the Grand Trunk Road

Taxila lies on the Grand Trunk Road

 

[Galaxy]

It will give access to A'than, Tajikistan, CAR Nations and Beyond.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Yeah and lookup that dot called Taxila on the Silk Route:

Taxila is situated about 32 km (20 mi) northwest of Islamabad Capital Territory and Rawalpindi in Panjab; just off the Grand Trunk Road. Taxila lies 549 metres (1,801 ft) above sea level.

Taxila - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No Gilgit