Small arms of India

[Kchontha]

Better obf hire a western gunsmith..........

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

capf have their own aquisition system independent of the army.

 

[abingdonboy]

look there is no standard ak in our forces
i feel 203 will change that

the initial order that will be produced will go to the army and the units that use only aks

next order which i feel will be used as surplus will go toward standardization of ak with all the forces be it paramilitary and othrs

there ar some units in our forces that uses different caliber than ak so these will be exception.

This isn’t how it works anymore.

People still saying stupid things like “new rifles go
To army then army gives their old rifles to CAPFs etc”

No. It doesn’t happen now, all units have their own procurement systems and clearly CAPFs have a more efficient one considering they have FAR more
Modern weapons than the frontline units of the army today.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I am curious to know if any of MOD babu or member of the military brass is being hanged from the nearest flagpole, for this lapse.

Looks like there will be two new RFIs. Ammo manufacturing part was totally stupid.

The possible options for a new procurement process include floating two separate RFIs — one for procuring sniper rifles and the other for ammunition, the sources said.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepri...r-weapon-but-none-make-ammunition/249981/amp/

 

[Noname34]

Looks like ass. Rather have Caracal, MKU produce their AR carbine.

The guy in one of his tweets said that the abomination is likely to be inducted (or should i say shoved down the army's throat by the idiotic babu-OFB nexus).

Is it going to happen? I hope it doesn't and the army gets a proper 21st century carbine from a private manufacturer.
Another question, why is the OFB allowed to manufacture anything after the mess they made of the INSAS?

 

[Chinmoy]

Hmm...sight radius seems to have gotten shorter in the new variant.

Also he selector switch IMO.

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

 

[WolfPack86]

India - 94,000 carbines ordered on September 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAR_816

 

[binayak95]

India - 94,000 carbines ordered on September 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAR_816

What is your source?
---------------------
Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

 

[abingdonboy]

India - 94,000 carbines ordered on September 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAR_816

Yeah no. The deal is dead, another one lost to anonymous complaints and babudom.

 

[sorcerer]

J&K police to procure 4,000 weapon safety systems to curb gun-snatching incidents

Concerned over a spurt in the incidents of weapon-snatching by militants, the Jammu and Kashmir Police will procure 4,000 weapon safety systems known as Smart Electronic Trigger Lock Weapon Tracking System (SETLWTS) to deal with the menace.

Such devices should also be compatible with fire arms and could be removed only by the biometrics of authorised users. Any forcible removal will damage the whole trigger mechanism system.

The system also carries finger and palm print scanners fitted in the grip to operate trigger locks, the police official said.

https://www.greaterkashmir.com/news...fety-systems-to-curb-gun-snatching-incidents/

 

[Noname34]

OFB supplied about 20,000 Excalibur rifles various states of Indian police force. I am disappointed that Indian army rejected even improved variant Insas mk 1c going for foreign carbines. Now procurement of foreign carbines got stuck and cancelled. I hope now Indian army will select and buy Insas mk 1c carbines. Indian govt should ban imported weapons and buy our own weapons.

How can any honest person be this compalacent that he/she is ready to forgive any amount of stupidity from the state owned defence production establishments is completely beyond me.

OFB regularly fleecing the army? FORGIVEN
OFB supplying shit tier material which are only worthy enough to be a paperweight in a sarkari office? FORGIVEN
OFB regularly killing/injuring/maiming soldiers due to them not knowing how to make ammunition? FORGIVEN

The list of crimes (all which can only be considered state sponsored treason) are endless yet they are all completely forgiven but the army which at the end of the day has no choice but to buy from foreign sources so that its soldiers don't end up dead due to the complacence of Indians and the incompetence of OFBs are singled out.
Why?
Why is such leeway given?
The mentality seems to be since that OFBs are indigenous the army should only use things supplied by them.
What the hell is this swadeshi shit? This ain't 1947.

What should be ensured is that the military gets the best thing for the price which is available in the global market with domestic private production.
The only thing forcing the military to use OFB garbage is that it gives indians 10 seconds of chest thumping jingoism, the fact that the average guy on the field doesn't want it is irrelevant to them.

OFBs and the rest of the DPSU bastards deserve to be charged with treason and thrown in jail with their organizations shut down, buildings demolished and shit made by them melted for scrap and sold by the kilo.

But they won't, they won't get what they deserve because the clout they have in the MOD and their union politics.

Them supplying their garbage to police forces is a classic example of how far that clout goes, the army cannot get away with it, how would the state police?

Oh don't worry the DPSU-MOD cabal will probably force the trash insas carbine down the army's throat and get away with it because indians are okay with state sponsored treason against the army.

 

[Tridev123]

OFB supplied about 20,000 Excalibur rifles various states of Indian police force. I am disappointed that Indian army rejected even improved variant Insas mk 1c going for foreign carbines. Now procurement of foreign carbines got stuck and cancelled. I hope now Indian army will select and buy Insas mk 1c carbines. Indian govt should ban imported weapons and buy our own weapons.

Largely agree with the need to create and sustain an indigenous defence base. Blindly comparing our defence products to the Western products and then lampooning our weapons serves no purpose. Any country that wishes to be really independent should largely depend on its own produced weapons. By all means criticize the shortcomings and defects in our indigenous weapons but also suggest measures to overcome our weaknesses. Shutting down all the Ordnance factories suddenly will create a dangerous void. Our private sector is still not in a position to manufacture the entire range of weaponry.

Successive governments in the past had looked at the private sector as somewhat of a national security threat. Foreign made weapons could be trusted but the Indian private sector could not be allowed to make weapons. Bullshit socialism. It is still not too late. The government should progressively increase the share of private sector defence manufacturing in the country. Of course the expectation is that the private sector will ensure quality and adherence to time deadlines. The whole assumption is that the private sector will do a better job than the public sector.

As regards weapons like the Insas, there are a few points to consider.
1.Is the design of the Insas rifle and its variants fundamentally wrong.
2.Is the problem more to do with poor workmanship and quality control. Is it only a flawed manufacturing process. The
machinery at our OFB's probably has become obsolete. Also the workers perform poorly.

In case the answer to the first question is no and the basic design of the Insas system is good then the most sensible course of action would be to entrust Insas production to a different entity, possibly in the private sector.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Largely agree with the need to create and sustain an indigenous defence base. Blindly comparing our defence products to the Western products and then lampooning our weapons serves no purpose. Any country that wishes to be really independent should largely depend on its own produced weapons. By all means criticize the shortcomings and defects in our indigenous weapons but also suggest measures to overcome our weaknesses. Shutting down all the Ordnance factories suddenly will create a dangerous void. Our private sector is still not in a position to manufacture the entire range of weaponry.

Successive governments in the past had looked at the private sector as somewhat of a national security threat. Foreign made weapons could be trusted but the Indian private sector could not be allowed to make weapons. Bullshit socialism. It is still not too late. The government should progressively increase the share of private sector defence manufacturing in the country. Of course the expectation is that the private sector will ensure quality and adherence to time deadlines. The whole assumption is that the private sector will do a better job than the public sector.

As regards weapons like the Insas, there are a few points to consider.
1.Is the design of the Insas rifle and its variants fundamentally wrong.
2.Is the problem more to do with poor workmanship and quality control. Is it only a flawed manufacturing process. The
machinery at our OFB's probably has become obsolete. Also the workers perform poorly.

In case the answer to the first question is no and the basic design of the Insas system is good then the most sensible course of action would be to entrust Insas production to a different entity, possibly in the private sector.

The INSAS rifle is essentially a hodge podge of an FN FNC, an AKM, HK G33, etc and stamp steel construction for mass production.

http://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9131

 

[Pandora]

Defence expo from pakistan. If not anything, they have learnt to develop presentable weapons (quite unlike our OFB with exposed rivets and paint chipped bodies). Can anyone comment on the small arms, especially the designated marksman and the bolt action sniper rifle, and the area denial launched mines. Are these licensed manufactured in pakistan or were they developed from the ground up.

Nothing work in battleground.Porkies army carry Chinese grenades which are more reliable than OPB

 

[Maddy_9UY]

--------------------------------------------------

Not surprised with the jingoism of Indian media about OFB products. However biggest surprise was when the OFB representative said that the Mk3 revolver is improved version because of the Matt finishing.

 

[Gessler]

Kerala Police orders brand new 500 Insas rifles from Ishapore rifle factory at a cost of 3.84 crores and 1.51lalh ammo at cost of 78 lakh rupees

500 rifles for Rs. 3.84 crores?

3.84 crores = $ 535,276

So the deal value translates to approximately $ 1,070 per rifle....for a INSAS

Forgive me for asking but...why are we celebrating this blatant rip-off of forces/police depts' capital expenditure?

And INSAS is already in bulk production for long time so the 'price will come down once mass production starts' argument that some OFB fanboys used to justify the exorbitant $1121 price tag for R2 rifle does not have any standing in this instance.

Just in case people have forgotten some points I made previously in this forum aimed at giving a little perspective to this madness...

> US Army buys their FN-made M4A1 carbines for $ 473 a piece.

Granted, the bulk orders give them leeway to reduce the price, but a retail M4A1 from a less name-brand manufacturer (take Palmeto State Armory AR-15s for example) even with the $200 tax stamp for full-auto model, comes in significantly cheaper (around $650-700) than this $1070 that our beloved OFB is charging our Police Depts for what is, quality-wise, a not so great rifle (and that's being generous) with little to no modern features whatsoever.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...lassic-ar-15-rifle-13-5-m-lok-rail-black.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...reedom-rifle-olive-drab-green-5165450007.html

> IA is buying SIG-made 716G2 rifles for $ 990 a pop...which is a 7.62 rifle from another name-brand manufacturer.

I'm sorry guys but if we are really buying INSAS rifles for well over 1,000 dollars a piece that is Exhibit A of why OFB hegemony needs to END, NOW.

++++

Coming to the ammo...I'm assuming the rounds are 5.56x45mm for the INSAS?

151,000 rounds for 78 lakhs = $ 108,635 total value at 71 cents a round - which I'm assuming are Ball ammo (a.k.a FMJ).

A single 5.56 FMJ ball (60-70 grain) in US retail market costs in the neighbourhood of 35 cents. And that's retail...bulk orders usually go down to between 20-30 cents per.

Another rip-off with regard to the Ammunition as well...and all for what is pretty well established to be not-so-great quality of ammo (have heard OFB rounds are notoriously overgassed (powder quantity above spec), and of dubious purity (leading to many malfunctions in the weapon).

please let me know if ive made any errors...I sure hope I have, otherwise it only goes to confirm what I've been saying for long...the Ordnance Factories are RIPPING OFF the taxpayer, sending the CAPEX of everyone from MoD to MHA down the drain, and all the while offering up equipment of below par standards.

 

[ALBY]

500 rifles for Rs. 3.84 crores?

3.84 crores = $ 535,276

So the deal value translates to approximately $ 1,070 per rifle....for a INSAS

Forgive me for asking but...why are we celebrating this blatant rip-off of forces/police depts' capital expenditure?

And INSAS is already in bulk production for long time so the 'price will come down once mass production starts' argument that some OFB fanboys used to justify the exorbitant $1121 price tag for R2 rifle does not have any standing in this instance.

Just in case people have forgotten some points I made previously in this forum aimed at giving a little perspective to this madness...

> US Army buys their FN-made M4A1 carbines for $ 473 a piece.

Granted, the bulk orders give them leeway to reduce the price, but a retail M4A1 from a less name-brand manufacturer (take Palmeto State Armory AR-15s for example) even with the $200 tax stamp for full-auto model, comes in significantly cheaper (around $650-700) than this $1070 that our beloved OFB is charging our Police Depts for what is, quality-wise, a not so great rifle (and that's being generous) with little to no modern features whatsoever.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...lassic-ar-15-rifle-13-5-m-lok-rail-black.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...reedom-rifle-olive-drab-green-5165450007.html

> IA is buying SIG-made 716G2 rifles for $ 990 a pop...which is a 7.62 rifle from another name-brand manufacturer.

I'm sorry guys but if we are really buying INSAS rifles for well over 1,000 dollars a piece that is Exhibit A of why OFB hegemony needs to END, NOW.

++++

Coming to the ammo...I'm assuming the rounds are 5.56x45mm for the INSAS?

151,000 rounds for 78 lakhs = $ 108,635 total value at 71 cents a round - which I'm assuming are Ball ammo (a.k.a FMJ).

A single 5.56 FMJ ball (60-70 grain) in US retail market costs in the neighbourhood of 35 cents. And that's retail...bulk orders usually go down to between 20-30 cents per.

Another rip-off with regard to the Ammunition as well...and all for what is pretty well established to be not-so-great quality of ammo (have heard OFB rounds are notoriously overgassed (powder quantity above spec), and of dubious purity (leading to many malfunctions in the weapon).

please let me know if ive made any errors...I sure hope I have, otherwise it only goes to confirm what I've been saying for long...the Ordnance Factories are RIPPING OFF the taxpayer, sending the CAPEX of everyone from MoD to MHA down the drain, and all the while offering up equipment of below par standards.

Thanks for writing this.I too wanted to highlight the issue, but was too lazy and busy to write anything on crappy Insas.
Buying either ghatak or TAR would have made sense, but buying Insas for police forces at such high prices was totally unjust
https://www.google.com/amp/s/englis...se-500-guns-1-5-lakh-bullets-kerala-1.4051335

 

[aghamarshana]

500 rifles for Rs. 3.84 crores?

3.84 crores = $ 535,276

So the deal value translates to approximately $ 1,070 per rifle....for a INSAS

Forgive me for asking but...why are we celebrating this blatant rip-off of forces/police depts' capital expenditure?

And INSAS is already in bulk production for long time so the 'price will come down once mass production starts' argument that some OFB fanboys used to justify the exorbitant $1121 price tag for R2 rifle does not have any standing in this instance.

Just in case people have forgotten some points I made previously in this forum aimed at giving a little perspective to this madness...

> US Army buys their FN-made M4A1 carbines for $ 473 a piece.

Granted, the bulk orders give them leeway to reduce the price, but a retail M4A1 from a less name-brand manufacturer (take Palmeto State Armory AR-15s for example) even with the $200 tax stamp for full-auto model, comes in significantly cheaper (around $650-700) than this $1070 that our beloved OFB is charging our Police Depts for what is, quality-wise, a not so great rifle (and that's being generous) with little to no modern features whatsoever.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...lassic-ar-15-rifle-13-5-m-lok-rail-black.html

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...reedom-rifle-olive-drab-green-5165450007.html

> IA is buying SIG-made 716G2 rifles for $ 990 a pop...which is a 7.62 rifle from another name-brand manufacturer.

I'm sorry guys but if we are really buying INSAS rifles for well over 1,000 dollars a piece that is Exhibit A of why OFB hegemony needs to END, NOW.

++++

Coming to the ammo...I'm assuming the rounds are 5.56x45mm for the INSAS?

151,000 rounds for 78 lakhs = $ 108,635 total value at 71 cents a round - which I'm assuming are Ball ammo (a.k.a FMJ).

A single 5.56 FMJ ball (60-70 grain) in US retail market costs in the neighbourhood of 35 cents. And that's retail...bulk orders usually go down to between 20-30 cents per.

Another rip-off with regard to the Ammunition as well...and all for what is pretty well established to be not-so-great quality of ammo (have heard OFB rounds are notoriously overgassed (powder quantity above spec), and of dubious purity (leading to many malfunctions in the weapon).

please let me know if ive made any errors...I sure hope I have, otherwise it only goes to confirm what I've been saying for long...the Ordnance Factories are RIPPING OFF the taxpayer, sending the CAPEX of everyone from MoD to MHA down the drain, and all the while offering up equipment of below par standards.

The moment I read that news I was dumbstruck. These Ordnance Factories r literally fleecing the services and law enforcement agencies.

 

[samsaptaka]

And they are proceeding with their strike too ! The gall . High time for kadi ninda to take steps to privatize OFB

 

[Shaitan]

Thanks for writing this.I too wanted to highlight the issue, but was too lazy and busy to write anything on crappy Insas.
Buying either ghatak or TAR would have made sense, but buying Insas for police forces at such high prices was totally unjust
https://www.google.com/amp/s/englis...se-500-guns-1-5-lakh-bullets-kerala-1.4051335

Im sure even the AK clones are unreasonably expensive.