Small arms and Light Weapons

[militarysta]

Here where INSAS improved 1B1 specs ..

ok

1. The barrel is 464mm and with a twist ration of 1:7.8 inches for medium and long range, Compare to shorter and more rifled Beryl ..

Compare to the NATO standard in Beryl and 457 mm barrel. So the difrence is 1,5% In fact both of then have the same long barrels.

2. It has gas regulator as standard for operation under different circumstances, Beryl does not has it ..

And the reson was (in)famous INSAS problems with reliability. Beryl have the same layout as AKM and in fact it's reliability is like in AKM -so without any problems or needed gas regulator.
And If you where carrying or shhothig whit AKM you will know about what im talking. Beryl as AKM is for monkey in term of the reliability.

3. Quite necessary in Military, In long runs carrying handle is essential, Beryl does not has it ..

Don;t be funny here. For long way carring you have sling + bag holders, solition for FM FAL is suecide in combat. Only 3 or 4 points mounted sling - and You axatly know about what im talkng. And Beryl is used whit 4 or 4 poits sling in combat. After combat - just in normal sling or whit bag holders.
Soultion form FN FAL is in fat outdated, but it can be usefull if soilder have outdated equipmeend whot no 3 or 4 points sling or proper indyvidual equipment.
IMHO it's depend on army philosophy of using soilders

4. 3.8kgs with fully loaded magazine, Beryl stands at 4.2 kgs ..

3650 g Beryl empty
554 g one full mag
whole is 4204g.

the difrence is 15%

5. IA use OFB 64gr 5.56mm with a velocity of 2900fps, Out class SS109 that Beryl use ..

Beryl SS109 V0= 920 m/s so 3018fps If Im counting right?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Go to range figure it out, I did long back ..

Compare to the NATO standard in Beryl and 457 mm barrel. So the difrence is 1,5% In fact both of then have the same long barrels.

====================

Funny coz INSAS share the same design of AKM when comes to reliability, Bottom of my boot the INSAS reliability issues ..

And the reson was (in)famous INSAS problems with reliability. Beryl have the same layout as AKM and in fact it's reliability is like in AKM -so without any problems or needed gas regulator. And If you where carrying or shhothig whit AKM you will know about what im talking. Beryl as AKM is for monkey in term of the reliability.

====================

Don`t talk about things you don`t know about ..

Don;t be funny here. IMHO it's depend on army philosophy of using soilders

====================

That states combat inefficient ..

3650 g Beryl empty
554 g one full mag
whole is 4204g.

the difrence is 15%

=====================

Only Velocity does not dictate killing power, We use remaining stocks of SS109 in training now ..

Beryl SS109 V0= 920 m/s so 3018fps If Im counting right?

 

[militarysta]

1. Learn this, Bullet from a shorter barrel with more rifling does not hit accurately even at 300ms, Its an issue with all AKs ..
(...)
6. Yes it can shoot to 1000ms but not accurate, I know i used both AK, INSAS, TAR ..

And you mistake here



Even in Polish army offcial instruction for shhoting it is notice aven whot "norm of used ammo".
proof:
http://www.rzi.hg.pl/pliki/bron_strzelecka.pdf
http://www.18pułkrozpoznawczy.pl/phocadownloadpap/program strzela z broni strzeleckiej - 2012.pdf

and this part:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You don`t know nothing about Army do you ?, Its a Army procedure to hit target at such ranges ..

And read my post, Its pure physics ..

And you mistake here

Even in Polish army offcial instruction for shhoting it is notice aven whot "norm of used ammo".
proof:
http://www.rzi.hg.pl/pliki/bron_strzelecka.pdf
http://www.18pułkrozpoznawczy.pl/phocadownloadpap/program strzela z broni strzeleckiej - 2012.pdf

and this part:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You don`t know nothing about Army do you ?, Its a Army procedure to hit target at such ranges we all do the same ..

And read my post, Its pure physics ..

And you mistake here

Even in Polish army offcial instruction for shhoting it is notice aven whot "norm of used ammo".
proof:
http://www.rzi.hg.pl/pliki/bron_strzelecka.pdf
http://www.18pułkrozpoznawczy.pl/phocadownloadpap/program strzela z broni strzeleckiej - 2012.pdf

and this part:

 

[Damian]

Sorry Kunal, but now you are very arrogant. Militarysta provided a reliable source that is contrary to your words.

 

[militarysta]

You don`t know nothing about Army do you ?

No, nothing at all...
Please Kunal don't be rude.

, Its a Army procedure to hit target at such ranges ..
.

No it's not I gave You TWO crdible sources abouth polish army shooting pratice whit all inside: targets, ranges, fields and distance, and finally those table whit:
type of weapons
type of ammo
shooting positions
and even number of rounds to pass exam

all this is contra your claiming that shooting from 5,56 and beryl is pointles at longer ranges.
No it's not, and polish army is practising this at 900 and 700m from 3 diffrent positions.

edit:
of course most of the trening is on mucht closer distanse: under 600m.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its going to be funny if you want me to go on, Because you just don`t know about what you talking about, For example ..

It does not matter how many rounds you put into target but its Grouping what matter over a target ..

Close cluster of bullet exists marks accuracy of a rifleman

=======================

You know what call an Wind-age and Elevation ? Yes that is what present in AK sights and Beryl too ..

So you troopers adjust the sight to engage at longer distance but with shorter barrel and more rifling twist to compensate for shorter barrel at long ranges which is not accurate compare to those Rifles have longer barrel with Twist design for longer ranges addition to that Leaf sights which are better than those of AK and quite essential at longer ranges ..

You learn to read right perhaps i wont be rude then .. :/

No, nothing at all...
Please Kunal don't be rude.

No it's not I gave You TWO crdible sources abouth polish army shooting pratice whit all inside: targets, ranges, fields and distance, and finally those table whit:
type of weapons
type of ammo
shooting positions
and even number of rounds to pass

all this is contra your claiming that shooting from 5,56 and beryl is pointles at longer ranges.

 

[militarysta]

@Kunal, I know about what You are writing about.

My point is simple: in compare INSAS and Beryl we have two problems:

1) Berly is introduced to polish army in to mass level - as I said - 1/3 of soilders have a Beryl rifle, or even 1/2 "operators" (front line soilders) have a Beryl. In fact any infanty or mechanizated/motoryzated infanty soilder have a Beryl rifle.
And how many IA soilders have a INSAS?
between 700 and 900 tousands.

2) Beryl was good till stard and first batch. About working or accuracy there was no single bad opinion - especialy after Iraq and Afganistan when many "fancy" M16 clones had serius problems. All Beryl mods where focus on one thing: ergonomy.
And IA had decided in october 2013 to not bought more INSAS. After two decades factory and user (IA) havn't agree about quality, duarability and operation INSAS rifle. In fact wholer program was stopped.

You are trying to compare very good deep clone fo the AKM (Beryl) checked in at least two long conflikt (iraq & afhganistan) whit...INSAS whit wasn't good enought for IA for quality problem, and sevral more.

Whole think was even describe in polish military press:
Wkrótce w Indiach testy MCAR - Altair Agencja Lotnicza
in MCAR context.

what more, even stupid wikipedia gives resons why IA had stopped INSAS buying:

During, the 1999 Kargil War the rifles were used in the high-attitudes of the Himalayas. There were complaints of jamming, the magazine cracking due to the cold and the rifle going into automatic mode when it was set for three-round bursts.[1] There was also a problem of oil being sprayed into the eye of the operator. Some injuries during firing practice were also reported.[8]

Similar complaints were also received from the Nepalese Army.[1] In August 2005, after 43 soldiers were killed in a clash with Maoists, a Nepalese Army spokesman called the rifle substandard and their counter-insurgency operation would have been more efficient with better weapons. The Indian embassy released a statement that rejected the claim and attributed it to improper usage, it also offered training for the rifle's correct usage

And try to find the same about Beryl rifle...

 

[cobra commando]

Ace quality Munger-made AK-47 rifle found in Delhi; cops worried - IBNLive

 

[Kaalapani]

ID the Gun.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I have low tolerance for nonsense, It is more when i am user ..

Nepal claim ludicrous: Indian Army

RNA's criticism about what it calls "sub-standard" INSAS rifles has more do with "politics" than anything else, in keeping with Nepal's strategy to play on Indian fears that it could turn to a third country like China or Pakistan for arms supplies.

The 1.13-million-strong Indian Army, the third largest in the world, should know about the 5.56 mm INSAS (Indian Small Arms System) rifles since it has inducted around five lakh of them since 1997-98. With an "effective 400-metre range" and capable of being fired either in single shots or three-round bursts, INSAS rifles have replaced the cumbersome 7.62 mm SLR (self-loading rifle) as the standard weapon for all infantry battalions.

"We are using INSAS rifles in counter-insurgency operations in extreme terrains ranging from Jammu and Kashmir to the North-East on a daily basis. If we can use them successfully in much more intense operations, there is no reason that RNA cannot," said a senior officer.

Quipped another, "RNA needs to be trained to handle the rifles better."

====================
====================

And that is correct, Berly is just a clone of AKM, And that is why INSAS is not comparable to Berly but its MBBS close to INSAS ..

1) Berly is introduced to polish army in to mass level - as I said - 1/3 of soilders have a Beryl rifle, or even 1/2 "operators" (front line soilders) have a Beryl. In fact any infanty or mechanizated/motoryzated infanty soilder have a Beryl rifle.
And how many IA soilders have a INSAS?

 

[Twinblade]

what more, even stupid wikipedia gives resons why IA had stopped INSAS buying:

What more, sdupit Polskatard rely on wikipedia. Insas has problems in cold weather in Kargil and Siachen. For the record, that area is the second coldest place on earth and the coldest place on earth with active military deployment. The extreme cold caused brittleness in gun parts. As a stop gap measure, barrels for INSAS were imported from Finland while the local production process was revised to rectify the metallurgy for cold weather.

Polskatard can google images for self to see which rifle is used in Siachen. Polskatard can also watch documentary from siachen where no gun other than INSAS is in sight.

 

[ladder]

Ace quality Munger-made AK-47 rifle found in Delhi; cops worried - IBNLive

Recruit those gun smiths into OFB. And their rifle be introduced as 4th entrant in Desi AK competition.

 

[Kaalapani]

===== Not needed :/ ======

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

INSAS costs 300-400 dollar and beryl costs 1300 dollar! And yet INSAS is better

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

if INSAS have problem then why nepal army re-buying INSAS?

 

[cobra commando]

Recruit those gun smiths into OFB. And their rifle be introduced as 4th entrant in Desi AK competition.

Ladder Saar, aap ne toh mere muh ki baat chhin lee onlee ! Also why only their desi AK, i say give these guys a chance to come up with a MCR for the IA also !

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

Already discussed in this vary same thread about quality and issues in Nepal army CLICK IT :fp:

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/43826-insas-rifle-lmg-carbine-20.html

 

[militarysta]

INSAS costs 300-400 dollar and beryl costs 1300 dollar!

WHAT?!
Tottal fake and nonsense:

Karabinek wz. 96 Beryl – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

w roku 2002 za każdy egzemplarz Beryla płacono około 600 USD. Według wielu opinii, była to cena zawyżona o około 30%,

Translante:
In 2002 each Beryl cost circa 600USD. In many opinnion this price was overpriced at circa 30%

And yet INSAS is better

Only in one think: it's circa 0,5kg lighter.