Small arms and Light Weapons

[Saumyasupraik]

Kunal an image you yourself posted in the Bullpup Assault Rifle Section in this very forum.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/land-forces/12317-bullpup-assault-rifles.html#post160772

This very much tells you knew all along that CTAR-21 and MTAR-21 are both different rifles.Now don't tell me you didn't actually had the time to go through your own submitted images before posting them here.

 

[Shaitan]

MTAR-21 is not X-95..

It's the same thing.....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Obviously you have nothing else except your word to prove that.Go ask Remov himself The CTAR-21 was never known as MTAR-21 it was always the CTAR-21 different from the MTAR-21/X-95.

MTAR-21 is the X-95.In some other forum Remov himself claims MTAR-21 and X-95 is the same rifle.He said Zittara which is available in 3 calibers is a variant of the Micro Tavor.

IDF uses both X-95 and CTAR-21 along with STAR-21 as DMR's and GTAR-21.

INSAS vs AK47 vs M16?

The above rifle is a CTAR-21 Kunal, it is the carbine variant of the TAR-21 it has a 15" barrel unlike the 13" found on the MTAR-21/X-95.The X-95 is the company designation for the MTAR-21, I don't know how the MTAR-21 name catched on but they both are the same rifle.

I'll post IWI's site as source if that makes you happy.

CTAR-21
Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) Ltd, CTAR

X-95/MTAR-21
Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) Ltd, X95

Ask Remov he'll definitely say the same anyday.

Kunal an image you yourself posted in the Bullpup Assault Rifle Section in this very forum.

Now don't tell me you didn't actually had the time to go through your own submitted images before posting them here.

Exactly, I didn't require to..

And if you don't agree with me so be it as told..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The X95 was called first "Micro Tavor 2", then just "Micro Tavor" and now X95. Basically it is redesigned Tavor TAR-21 with some improvements. The weapon in my opinion is the best bullpup on the market from ergonomic point of view.

CTAR-21 (above) and X95 (below) carbines

X95 night firing

New Israeli rifle "Gilboa" based on the M-16 - Page 2

During 2007 or early there were no such name as X-95 exists only MTAR..

The new Rifle called MTAR as well back then..

I hope you can understand, What i meant..

 

[pmaitra]

Just to clear the air, TAVOR and X-95 are names of families of rifles. Both these families have similarities, but not exactly the same.

Link: Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) Ltd, Assault Rifles

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1st Generation MTAR

2nd Generation MTAR

3rd Genration MTAR




Now 2nd Gen MTAR call CTAR..

It was not before when TAR-21 was first introduce..

Generation term is for better understanding

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Just to clear the air, TAVOR and X-95 are names of families of rifles. Both these families have similarities, but not exactly the same.

Link: Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) Ltd, Assault Rifles

The term MTAR is gone, The model of Older MTAR is now call CTAR..

And X-95 is a evolved more refined of MTAR..



If you call MTAR as fal, you are most welcome to call it as its your view..

 

[pmaitra]

The term MTAR is gone, The model of Older MTAR is now call CTAR..

And X-95 is a evolved more refined of MTAR..

Looks like IWI created a whole new family of weapons out of the existing TAVOR family. Well, I was just going by the commercial nomenclature of IWI.

If you call MTAR as fal, you are most welcome to call it as its your view..

No, I did not call MTAR FAL. FAL is different. It is Belgian, like FN-FAL. We also call our SLRs FN-FALs, but they are quite different from the original FN-FALs because many of the parts are not interchangeable.

Edit: Kunal's post wasn't for me. I misunderstood.

 

[Saumyasupraik]

The X95 was called first "Micro Tavor 2", then just "Micro Tavor" and now X95. Basically it is redesigned Tavor TAR-21 with some improvements. The weapon in my opinion is the best bullpup on the market from ergonomic point of view.

New Israeli rifle "Gilboa" based on the M-16 - Page 2







I hope you can understand, What i meant..

He just cleared up everything I've been saying and you've been dismissing.The only thing is that you still call the 2nd Generation CTAR-21 as MTAR.But it isn't like that they were both different rifles.And MTAR-21/X-95 was designed from the ground up to be a different variant being as short as possible.CTAR-21 was the carbine variant of the TAR-21.Actually the TAR-21 can be changed to a CTAR-21 with just a barrel change and back again.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

He just cleared up everything I've been Not saying and you've been Saying.

TheNOT only thing is that you still call the 2nd Generation MTAR-21 as CTAR..

MTAR & X-95 they were both different rifles.

CTAR-21/MTAR-21/X-95 was the carbine variant of the TAR-21.

Actually the TAR-21 can be changed to a CTAR-21 with just a barrel change and back again.

Its X-95 with Barrel Kit not CTAR-21 or Older MTAR..

Replied and corrected in Gray..

 

[ALBY]

Do you have closeups to show the Receiver Markings?Anything else besides you that proves it isn't a Bulgarian?

BTW Small correction a AK with a milled receiver is called a AK47 one with a stamped receiver is called a AKM.That is probably one of the most distinguishing factors between each of them.

the rifle which kunal is holding is not an ofb made one but a bulgarian arsenal made AKM.

 

[ALBY]

[video][video]http://www.ak47stuff.com/images/system/norm.php?D7A34-00-7-20-07-250.jpg[/video][/video]

 

[Saumyasupraik]

the rifle which kunal is holding is not an ofb made one but a bulgarian arsenal made AKM.

I've been trying to say the same.

Small correction.
It's an Bulgarian AK47 not a Bulgarian AKM.AK47 has milled receiver as can be clearly seen in the picture you posted, AKM has stamped receiver.The AKM has a ribbed dust cover while the AK47 has a flat dust cover.Both have different buttstocks and handguards.

AK-47

AKM

 

[Kunal Biswas]

the rifle which kunal is holding is not an ofb made one but a bulgarian arsenal made AKM.

This is my pic, It was taken long ago..

The AKM was of OFB with a unique Gas regulator, The AKM is in service within 9th para..

Missed my post ?

During that time it was called AK-7..

 

[SPIEZ]

Barrel of the Mk.18 is shorter not the M4 Carbine.Keep in mind that.

Not everyone assumes the M4 to be a Mk.18.

Also X-95 and TAR-21 are two different variants of the Tavor with different barrels.

The barrel of M4 carbine is shorter than that of TAR-21 but is longer than that of X-95/MTAR-21

Not everyone but you are assuming that a Mk18 is an M4. That picture clearly shows the length of the regular assault rifle and the only version of the assault rifle to have the length is the mk 18.

 

[ALBY]

Missed my post ?

During that time it was called AK-7..

kunal ursayin that the akm you are holdind is an ofb made one?i wuld argue coz look at the pic the one you are holding is similar to the bulgarian ines used by paramilitary forces like crpf and bsf.Plus i dont think the elite force of IA will use the ofb rifle which failed in the tests of army.Any way what about the arms used by paras ?what is the composition of small arms used by them?ie M4s and taor,vz58s and akms?

 

[Saumyasupraik]

Not everyone but you are assuming that a Mk18 is an M4. That picture clearly shows the length of the regular assault rifle and the only version of the assault rifle to have the length is the mk 18.

Kunal was saying the barrel of the M4 Carbine is shorter than that of the MTAR-21, I pointed out to him that isn't the case.No one except you was talking about the picture he posted.We both were talking about the M4 only, you only had to bug in between and assume I was stating the barrel length of the Mk.18.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

kunal ursayin that the akm you are holdind is an ofb made one?

i wuld argue coz look at the pic the one you are holding is similar to the bulgarian ines used by paramilitary forces like crpf and bsf.Plus i dont think the elite force of IA will use the ofb rifle which failed in the tests of army.Any way what about the arms used by paras ?what is the composition of small arms used by them?ie M4s and taor,vz58s and akms?

Absolutely without a doubt, You are looking at one of the AK-7 produced by OFB there are not many pics of AK-7..

You wouldn't ask me this if you read my post which i posted twice, The picture taken long back ( 2005-6 ? may be )..


Also if you can find trade fair photo of OFB stall in Kolkata, You will find these same black AKM produced by OFB, They look exactly as Bulgarian once..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Trichy Assault Rifle

 

[pmaitra]

Absolutely without a doubt, You are looking at one of the AK-7 produced by OFB there are not many pics of AK-7..

You wouldn't ask me this if you read my post which i posted twice, The picture taken long back ( 2005-6 ? may be )..


Also if you can find trade fair photo of OFB stall in Kolkata, You will find these same black AKM produced by OFB, They look exactly as Bulgarian once..

I second that. That looks just like the RFI made AK-clone I had seen at Trade Fair, around the same time. The one I had seen also had that exact waffle magazine. In all probability, that is OFB RFI made.