Small arms and Light Weapons

[ALBY]

AKM with QCB stock

 

[Sikh_warrior]

nice to see Kunal in action in DFI. good work dada.

good to be back in DFI, sorry for the extra long absence from the forum, but boys im glad to be back.

Jai Hind.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

TYPE 95/97 IRON SIGHT VIEW!

Not Gud..

 

[Shaitan]

Polish Kbs wz. 1996 Beryl

 

[Shaitan]

Czech CZ 805 BREN A1/A2 assault rifle

 

[Shaitan]

Modified Hungarian AMD 65

 

[Shaitan]

Brazil's Taurus (firearm manufacturer) unveil new assault rifle

 

[Shaitan]

Philippine's Special Operations Assault Rifle (SOAR) assault rifle

(badass)

 

[Koovie]

Does anyone have new informations about the IA tender??

 

[Sikh_warrior]

Forces Face Gun Crisis


Indian forces face small arms shortage


Home Minister P. Chidambaram has mooted the creation of a centralised procurement board for buying small arms for the paramilitary forces. A miffed Chidambaram is understood to have suggested this after reports of deviations from tender norms surfaced in acquisitions of firearms by two paramilitary forces.

In March, the Border Security Force (BSF) signed a contract with Italian gun maker Beretta for buying 68,000 submachine guns worth over Rs 400 crore. The size of the deal raised eyebrows because few had heard of the Beretta weapon. Late last year, its sister service, the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), signed an order for the purchase of 12,000 X-95 Tavor carbines from Israel costing over Rs 1 lakh apiece. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Generous modernisation budgets after the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks mean that India's military, paramilitary and police personnel will import small arms worth over $3 billion (Rs 13,500 crore). Most of these imports of weapons performing similar security roles will be from different global arms manufacturers with nothing in common in terms of ammunition, spares and training. "In a few years, India is going to resemble a salad bowl of assorted weaponry, says a senior police official. The Mumbai police's Force One commandos, raised after the 26/11, have four different types of weapons-Colt M-4 carbines from the US, Brugger and Thomet submachine guns from Switzerland, MP-5 submachine guns from Germany and AK-47 variants from eastern Europe.

The force is already believed to have a problem importing ammunition for all these weapons, one of the dangers of such a diverse menagerie. "The US army is talking about inter-operability (similar weapons, ammunition) of weapons across continents, we are unable to achieve inter-operability even between our security forces," says Lieutenant General (retd) P.C. Katoch.




Click here to Enlarge
The Indian Army has begun looking for new carbines (a shorter version of an assault rifle) and assault rifles to replace its obsolete weaponry. A lip-smacking treat of over $2 billion (Rs 9,000 crore) for foreign arms companies eyeing a piece of the action awaits.

In India, little research goes into buying such weapons. There are virtually no experts who can study or evaluate small arms. The sole evaluating agency is the army's School of Infantry in Mhow, Madhya Pradesh, which the army uses for its own requirements. Army officials call for an apex government body comprising users and technical experts from various services. "They should evaluate weapons and recommend induction for all security forces," says an army officer. This is along the lines of what the home minister has suggested for the paramilitary forces.

"Despite fighting insurgency for over two decades, the army has not conducted a comprehensive analysis of firefights with militants or any research into the type of weapons or bullets required," admits a senior army official. Most reports filed by individual field officers after encounters disappear into military-bureaucratic black holes in Delhi. A few years ago, an officer questioned the lethality of the new special forces' Tavor assault rifles bought from Israel. A group of militants ambushed by the army got away with injuries. The report was quietly buried. Importing weapons means the nation is at the mercy of foreign vendors for spares and ammunition. Austria and Germany have refused to let their firms supply weapons to Indian states like Chhattisgarh and Maharashtra citing human rights violations.

The larger problem, say officials, is the utter lack of communication between the designer, manufacturer and user. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the OFB and the army function in silos, not talking to each other. Faulty ammunition made by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) is another major cause of weapons malfunctioning in combat, but again, little thought is paid to improving quality. The DRDO's new MSMC compact carbine has the ability to address requirements of the army, police and paramilitary forces but is wrestling with weight and performance issues.

Army officials say at 4 kg, the weapon is too heavy; the DRDO says it will improve subsequent variants. The weapon undergoes final trials this month but is several years away from mass production. Meanwhile the Home Ministry is importing thousands of AK-47 variants from Bulgarian arms manufacturer Arsenal Inc. A home ministry official says the Bulgarian-made AK costs just Rs 22,000, Rs 5000 less than the indigenous INSAS rifle. The irony is hard to miss. A nation self-sufficient in making ballistic missiles imports assault rifles from eastern Europe.


DRDO Delays


This month, the Army is to conduct final trials of the DRDO's Modern Submachine Carbine (MSMC).

In development for close on to a decade, it struggled with weight and performance issues. The weight has now dropped to an acceptable 3.1kg and a reliability of 99.4 per cent (3 stoppages for every 1,000 rounds fired) but the Army wants it to reach 99.7 per cent. The Army will buy 2.18 lakh of the carbines for Rs 2,183 crore if the MSMC passes the test.

The police and paramilitary are set to follow. The MSMC could potentially end the small arms confusion and put a stop to imports. The onus now lies with the DRDO to prove it can deliver.


Indian forces face small arms shortage : NATION: India Today

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In March, the Border Security Force (BSF) signed a contract with Italian gun maker Beretta for buying 68,000 submachine guns worth over Rs 400 crore.

Why Not MP-5 or even UZI ?

the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), signed an order for the purchase of 12,000 X-95 Tavor carbines from Israel costing over Rs 1 lakh apiece. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

AK-47 cannot do the job even AK-103 ?

Instead use them over modern vests and MPV & MARKSMEN..

Faulty ammunition made by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) is another major cause of weapons malfunctioning in combat, but again, little thought is paid to improving quality. The DRDO's new MSMC compact carbine has the ability to address requirements of the army, police and paramilitary forces but is wrestling with weight and performance issues.

OFB is 100% responsible for Insas`s badnami via media..

DRDO`s is good but need supervision and help from out side like Singaporean small arm manufactures, A JV is in need..

Bulgarian-made AK costs just Rs 22,000, Rs 5000 less than the indigenous INSAS rifle. The irony is hard to miss.

Both Rifles are different, they should compare Bulgarian AKs with Indian made AKs..

They should compare any other 5.56mm with Insas 5.56mm, and can see the difference..





Bottom line is we need to spend more money on Indigenous industry and discourage imports, Discipline must be maintained over Defense Organizations same as in Army..

 

[Shaitan]

In development for close on to a decade, it struggled with weight and performance issues. The weight has now dropped to an acceptable 3.1kg and a reliability of 99.4 per cent (3 stoppages for every 1,000 rounds fired) but the Army wants it to reach 99.7 per cent. The Army will buy 2.18 lakh of the carbines for Rs 2,183 crore if the MSMC passes the test.

The police and paramilitary are set to follow. The MSMC could potentially end the small arms confusion and put a stop to imports. The onus now lies with the DRDO to prove it can deliver.

For the love of god, I hope they pass the MSMC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[indiandude123]

we need something like this

Beretta ARX 160

 

[ALBY]

kunal sir what were u referring about AKs?
How abt customising assault rifles of RR units and other paramilitary and army units engaged in CT ops with not much costly equipments like vertical hand guards,collapsible butts,OFB made CQB scopes like red dots and hollowgraphic etc and rails and muzzle brakes etc as these modifications will improve the performance of soldiers..
And also what about converting good old SLRS into designated marksman rifles as M14DMRs and issue them among para military units engaged in CT ops in NE and naxal areas
Is it possible to convert INSAS rifles into fully automatic retaining burst fire mode as our soldiers convert single shot FNFALs into fully automatic during ops against LTTE?coz fully automatic weapons will score over burst firinging ones in J&K like scenarios...

 

[Sikh_warrior]

with fire mode on full, one tends to waste ammo and finish his mag quickly and more chances of running out of ammo. thats why the single shot and 3 shot burst is recomended.

in an ambush or an encounter, one has to use his head and control the rate of fire and make sure the ammo is not wasted. while the enemy is taken care of.

in vietnam, yanks wasted a lot of ammo and the rate of fire Vs the rate of kill was very poor and low.

the lessons learnt were implemented all over the world.

of course the SFs or for covert ops, the weapons used are different from the regular infantry.

i thought the old army ISHAPOREs should have filtered down to the paramilitary and local police and the .303s would have been phased out or handed over to less troubled places.

like kunal was saying.....correct weapons have not been decided for the forces (army and paramilitary).

i cant think of a reason as to WHY a Tavor has been selected for CRPF???

CRPF engaged in anti naxal ops should be given AKs, as the fire fights are more like CQBs. they dont need TAVORS!!!!

 

[sayareakd]

Sikh, have you seen use of red dot and other optics, leaving a side Tavor rifle. ???

 

[Immanuel]

Actually the best SMG for the last few years has been the KRISS

Kriss Super V Submachine Gun

I think we should order plus locally manufacture these for SF units, this is an ideal weapon for CQB.

For the infantry i suggest a 6.8mm or 6.5mm grendel round, both have better ballistic performances than he standard 5.56 Nato as well as the Ak 7.26 round. As now military grade bullet proof jackets can take on 5.56 as well 7.26 rounds, but 6.5 and 6.8 can get through.

 

[Sikh_warrior]

Sikh, have you seen use of red dot and other optics, leaving a side Tavor rifle. ???

i have seen the usage of RED DOT and other optic aids being used with rifles, the first bullpup rifle i saw in india was in the first defence expo in pragati maidan, a very long time back.

i myself have not used tavor at all, though i long to get my hands on one!

Red Dot and other optic aids are very much required in todays urban built up environment fire fights.

 

[mattster]

Why cant India get a private company to manufacture small arms. Why does the DRDO have to get their hands into every single pie no matter how small the pie ??

This seems like an organization that is scared of losing its turf to private players - or are they just in the business of holding on to their jobs at any cost ?

 

[Sikh_warrior]

Why cant India get a private company to manufacture small arms. Why does the DRDO have to get their hands into every single pie no matter how small the pie ??

This seems like an organization that is scared of losing its turf to private players - or are they just in the business of holding on to their jobs at any cost ?

Thanks to things started by Nehru, we had a closed Socialist enconomy from the day of birth! remember license Raj, "you cant produce more that 10 bajaj scooters a day! why you think for buy a scooter, one had to wait 9 years"?