Small arms and Light Weapons

[ALBY]

Caracal 816 Carbine variant.

Possible idea for a AK 203 series carbine.

And finally OFB's INSAS 1C carbine variant!

They may be mentioning about Ak-204, the carbine version of Ak203

 

[vampyrbladez]

They may be mentioning about Ak-204, the carbine version of Ak203

Any pictures available? 7.62x39 mm round for a carbine is a very stupid idea. Smaller barrel means worse terminal ballistics and more recoil. Round itself prevents sustained automatic fire for accuracy which is the template of carbines.

5.56x45 mm is ideal for carbines. Yawing of round at 100 - 125 yards allows for better performance against soft targets. M855/SS109 rounds good against LVL III and below body armor at 15 yards.

Meanwhile OFB's gun is pure nonsense.

 

[Holy Triad]

Any pictures available? 7.62x39 mm round for a carbine is a very stupid idea. Smaller barrel means worse terminal ballistics and more recoil. Round itself prevents sustained automatic fire for accuracy which is the template of carbines.

5.56x45 mm is ideal for carbines. Yawing of round at 100 - 125 yards allows for better performance against soft targets. M855/SS109 rounds good against LVL III and below body armor at 15 yards.

Meanwhile OFB's gun is pure nonsense.

--------------------------ak 204 carbine----------------------------------

 

[ALBY]

Any pictures available? 7.62x39 mm round for a carbine is a very stupid idea. Smaller barrel means worse terminal ballistics and more recoil. Round itself prevents sustained automatic fire for accuracy which is the template of carbines.

5.56x45 mm is ideal for carbines. Yawing of round at 100 - 125 yards allows for better performance against soft targets. M855/SS109 rounds good against LVL III and below body armor at 15 yards.

Meanwhile OFB's gun is pure nonsense.

Just check net. Ak104s had been around 2 decades. Russian Spetsnaz had been using Ak104 successfully. Recently they had improved Ak104 into 204.
Earlier colt commando too had the same issues as u mentioned ewrlier, but we had seen Hk and later colt and other gun manufacturers solved the issue for some extent

 

[vampyrbladez]

--------------------------ak 204 carbine----------------------------------

This is not ideal at all. AK 74u sized is OK. Else it's worthless.

 

[Holy Triad]

This is not ideal at all. AK 74u sized is OK. Else it's worthless.

Agree, Ak platforms are not meant for carbine purposes,the receiver itself thick and too big to conceal.

Even ak74 krinkovs chambered with 5.45s,762x39 will keyhole in 100mts(in krinkov config.if were to be made)

556 calibre is ideal for short barreled rifles aka carbines.

 

[vampyrbladez]

That is the planned setup by 2020s. Currently it is this -

View attachment 34754

Earlier on, it was like this:

View attachment 34755

In all cases, the Automatic Rifleman will be the one entrusted with providing support when rest of squad is moving. Earlier on, he used to provide support with the M249 SAW and its volume of fire. Now he does it with the M27 IAR and its precision of fire (6x scope provided as standard).

Same role, different tool.

In the near future, the entire squad will be equipped with a common weapon. In that sense, only the intended roles will differ based on which member of the squad is wielding it. But in effect, all guns will be capable of doing all roles. At least that's what the USMC is working toward.

Stupidest idea ever! M27 aka HK416 for M249 SAW. Without suppressive fire how will squad maneuver?

AFAIK this idea has been scrapped. They were planning to replacing every M4A1 with an M27 IAR but capped it at 15,000 only. Now they use it as a DMR/Battle Rifle more than a SAW.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/ne...t-or-working-with-them-youre-not-getting-one/

https://www.guns.com/news/2018/04/30/hk-wins-29-million-contract-for-more-m27-rifles-to-marine-corps

Meanwhile M249s will continue to stay in the field!

https://defence-blog.com/army/u-s-army-looks-to-buy-more-m249-squad-automatic-weapons.html

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/04/04/fn-snags-9-9-million-pentagon-contract-for-machine-gun-barrels

These days, most rifle companies are issued 27 IARs and six SAWs, a Marine Corps official said.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/of...rps-quest-for-the-best-rifle-for-infantrymen/

Meanwhile the US Army has the right idea going for an intermediate round between the 5.56x45 mm and 7.62x51 mm for the 6.8x43 mm. Marines have been forced to adopt the guns as soon as they are made available.

https://taskandpurpose.com/army-squad-marksman-rifle-fielding

https://www.military.com/daily-news...oots-early-version-next-gen-squad-weapon.html

Next Generation 6.8 mm prototypes. (2017 design) As you can see they have pushed the receiver below the barrel to allow for the recoil spring and guide rod for a bigger caliber to fit the dimensions of an M4A1 carbine.

 

[vampyrbladez]

See comparison of 6.8x43 mm round with 7.62x39 mm. The former has around 20% more energy at all ranges but is more expensive! However compared to 7.62x51 mm, it adds only 3-4 rounds extra and is far more underpowered.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Some more info on the 6.8 mm round.

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine...army-serious-about-fielding-6-8-caliber-round

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...newest-polymer-cased-telescoped-firing-rifle/

 

[WolfPack86]

Army Begins Process To Acquire 360,000 Modern Carbines; Sterling 9mms Set To Go
The Indian Army has initiated a bid to procure 360,000 carbines by issuing a ‘supplementary request for information’, in the wake of the finalisation of a contract for 94,000 units of the close quarter battle (CQB) CAR 816 carbine initiated last year, reports Livefist Defence.

Interestingly, the army intends to pre-condition the purchase of the 360,000 new carbines with a clause that they be manufactured in India. These carbines will replace the Sterling 9mm gun which is being currently used by the army.

The previous order for 94,000 carbines will be delivered over 12 months, as it is a fast-track procurement. The weapon is produced at the Tawazun Industrial Park in Al Ajban close to Abu Dhabi by UAE-based manufacturer Caracal.



The latest contest for the 360,000 carbines will see Caracal having to compete with other notable models like the Thales F90, among others.

During last year’s contest, some major vendors like Beretta backed out from the selection process and others such as Heckler & Koch didn’t even participate, in what is seen as a response to the Ministry of Defence’s “erratic and ad hoc” approach to arms acquisition. The army intends to rectify previous errors and wants maximum possible participation during this round.

Fast-track efforts to procure modern firearms to replace the Indian Army’s ageing weaponry have been initiated under the leadership of current chief General Bipin Rawat. The initiative has also seen the selection of the Sauer SIG 716 for the supply of 72,000 assault rifles which will replace INSAS rifles currently in use.

Moreover, India and Russia are looking to conclude an arrangement for the joint manufacture of around 650,000 AK-203 assault rifles to meet the Infantry’s requirements.
http://defencenews.in/article/Army-...dern-Carbines;-Sterling-9mms-Set-To-Go-582756

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Army’s wait for close-quarter-battle carbines continues
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has urged the Oversight Committee to submit its report on the close-quarter-battle carbines (CQB), worth $ 553.33 million, for which UAE based Caracal, was down selected after extensive trials.

Sources have confirmed to the Financial Express Online that, the MoD which in an effort to modernise the Indian Army’s Infantry had put the procurement of the CQBs on the Fast Track Procurement (FTP) process. Under the FTP process there is no major general staff evaluation and the entire process is expected to be completed in a year, which is based on operational requirements. Within one year of inking the contract the deliveries will have to start.


No final decision has been taken for the procurement for 93,895 CQBs which has been running into delays, despite the UAE Company submitting and meeting all requirements mentioned in the request for proposal (RfP).

“The company has already been declared as L1, gone through the Commercial Negotiating Committee (CNC), the Acceptance Test Procedure report, and other related documents have already been submitted to the MoD,” said the source cited above. Also, the Company has even agreed to make them in India for which it is in advance stage of discussions with Bharat Forge.

The trials for these CQBs were carried out simultaneously with the trials for the Assault Rifles and in both cases the UAE Company had cleared the tests. While the assault rifle procurement has already been awarded to the US based SIG Sauer’s SiG 716 which was ‘L1’ for 72,000 new automatic rifles, decision for the CQB is getting delayed.

According to industry sources, it is up to the Service Headquarters if they want the CQBs from Caracal or would they prefer to wait for home made CQBs. “Whether the MoD decides to scrap the deal and go for fresh RfP or it decides to make in India, the infantry man continues to use outdated Indian National Small Arms System (INSAS) which has critical reliability issues,” a senior army officer pointed out.

As has been reported earlier, Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) has yet to receive the report from the Oversight Committee, which should have given it last month. Since the procurement has to be fast tracked, the Committee must submit within three days to a month, explain officials. With growing tensions along the borders, the lives of the soldiers are at risk as they are using the outdated INSAS.

Some companies who had failed to make the cut had raised objections with the MoD against the company. And to address these concerns, as reported earlier, the company in a letter to the MoD clarified that not only is it NATO compliant but is also a state owned company and Caracal International is part of Emirates Defense Industrial Company EDIC). And added that it has manufacturing capabilities in countries like German, Algeria in North Africa and in USA and North America.

The Infantry needs more than seven lakh CQBs, which has been urging the MoD to fast track the procurement. The trials carried out were extensive in nature both as the home base of the companies who had responded to the RfP as well as in India in different terrains with Indian ammunition.
https://www.financialexpress.com/de...se-quarter-battle-carbines-continues/1545442/

 

[WolfPack86]

Above articles suggest that procurement of CAR 816 carbines stuck and strapped. So Indian goverment pushing for Insas mk 1 c as carbine for Indian army.

 

[Shaitan]

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[vampyrbladez]

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I am extremely grateful and proud of the service every man in the video provides to his nation.

However that is a shit way to handle rifle grenades. Volley fire is done using the grenade mount as a cross hair and not as a knee mortar. Also why aren't the troopers in a slit trench for safety.

 

[Shaitan]

I am extremely grateful and proud of the service every man in the video provides to his nation.

However that is a shit way to handle rifle grenades. Volley fire is done using the grenade mount as a cross hair and not as a knee mortar. Also why aren't the troopers in a slit trench for safety.

Blame their training.===============

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Bulgarian Arsenal M5F41 of CRPF

Some times I feel that procurement policy of MHA is better than MOD. In past 7-8 years thousands of X95 , Mp5 , Glock , SIG 553 , PSG-1 snipers , Around 1.3 lakh Arsenal AKs & Beretta SMG were procured to replace INSAS & Sterlings. Recently MHA also procured FN MINIMI for CRPF & NSG. And they are doing it in phases. New M5F41 is also ordered in good numbers. Desi rifles like Excalibur , GHATAK & Trichy are also in production for CAPFs. We rarely hear any deal getting stuck or delayed.

In same timeline MOD managed to procure only Mp9 , SIG 716G2 and additional MP9 & GALIL for SF. Snipers & X95s were procured by Northern Command Commanders' Financial Powers that too in limited numbers. It's damn frustrating sometimes.

 

[WolfPack86]

India's Ministry of Defence has said that the production line for the AK-203 being built by Indo-Russian Rifles Pvt. Ltd (IRRPL) at Korwa, Uttar Pradesh will be 100 % indigenized within a time frame of 32 months from the date of placement of contract on IRRPL. (Saurav Jha)

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

ARSENAL M5F41 CRPF ...............

 

[Vayuputra]

When we can except first batch of Ak 203s coming out from Amethi OFB?

 

[ALBY]

rare 30 round magazines on INSAS
View attachment 37138

Its been more than 20 years, still. soldkers are given 20 round mags for Insas. ‍.
Tried many times, but neber understood the logic, why 20 round mags were given instead of 30 rounds.