Small arms and Light Weapons

When picking a gun, what would your primary consideration be?


  • Total voters
    85
  • Poll closed .

MIDKNIGHT FENERIR-00

VICTORIOUM AUT MORS
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
3,037
Likes
9,973
Ok than but still , maybe in the 2040s onwards we might start seeing such designs for Guns being Implemented. We never know what the Future holds my Man.
View attachment 132033
3D Printed “Smart” Guns are getting popular in the west especially the US. So who knows we might start seeing these kinds ones “imaginary” guns come into reality maybe in the 2050s or 2080s. Who knows we can only guess what the future holds.
 
Last edited:

AlphaRaiderZ

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2021
Messages
572
Likes
1,813
Country flag
But it indicates 10.5”/11.5” barrel lengths as overall length is specified to be ≤ 800mm
10.5 barrel too short na ?? Isn't the effective length for firing 223. R, 13/14.5 inches to gain an average bullet velocity . Our forces ordered a sub-compact/pistol not carbine .
 

Marliii

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
4,327
Likes
23,770
Country flag
10.5 barrel too short na ?? Isn't the effective length for firing 223. R, 13/14.5 inches to gain an average bullet velocity . Our forces ordered a sub-compact/pistol not carbine .
If 10.5 was too short then all SBR are by that logic are flawed .10.5 and 11 inch are ideal SBR length any more and you are in m4 length
 

Lonewarrior

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
720
Likes
2,741
Country flag
View attachment 133295
2. Elongated handguard with M-Lok rails considering the barrel to be around the length of 14.5 inches can be used for C-clamping
C-clamp grip only works when you can stretch your non-shooting hand considerably.
The maximum length of handguard you can have on this carbine would be 10.75 inches.
Given this short length and extreme variation in physical form factor among Indian soldiers; I don't think C-clamp should be such a priority.
Any normal vertical grip or simply mag-well grip can do the job sufficiently.
 

Lonewarrior

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
720
Likes
2,741
Country flag
10.5 barrel too short na ?? Isn't the effective length for firing 223. R, 13/14.5 inches to gain an average bullet velocity . Our forces ordered a sub-compact/pistol not carbine .
Average bullet velocity!? There isn't any fixed average velocity.
For close quarter combat it can be way too less without any issues. For DMR role even a small reduction can cause significant drop.
It all depends on the purpose.
 

SGOperative

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2021
Messages
1,999
Likes
5,778
Country flag
10.5 barrel too short na ?? Isn't the effective length for firing 223. R, 13/14.5 inches to gain an average bullet velocity . Our forces ordered a sub-compact/pistol not carbine .
14.5 is full length carbine, 10.5 inch barrel on mk18 gives it a range of 300m if i remember correctly and it will be issued to replace sterling's so i dont it will be a issue.
 

Picard

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
146
Likes
404
Country flag
Was expecting similar result, (also it was similar to kind of failures that X-95 and AUG faced i.e. ingress from charging handle side)
like, outside gunk won't affect the working parts inside receiver but would potentially fuck up the trigger extension etc in grip section; since the charging handle slot is open type,
but since that opening is on top, it is less likely to come in contact of stuff on ground in normal handling, also when put on sides the opening is kinda slotted in centre side of weapon from cross section etc so there is still some material between opening and ground,
so in practical purposes rifle is fine enough for service,

if they wish to improvise it they should just attach a sliding metal sheet like thing to cover up that slot, it is non-reciprocating type charging handle after all...
What about also relaxing manufacturing tolerances a bit? IIRC, one of reasons why AK-47 gets its reputation for reliability are loose tolerances, which means that you can get quite a bit of mud and dust between the moving parts before they stop moving.
 

Johny_Baba

अज्ञानी
Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
2,240
Likes
9,528
Country flag
What about also relaxing manufacturing tolerances a bit? IIRC, one of reasons why AK-47 gets its reputation for reliability are loose tolerances, which means that you can get quite a bit of mud and dust between the moving parts before they stop moving.
It would work, but it also depends on many things including design,
in AR pattern rifles keeping tighter tolerances is desired because the opening at breech face has many locking lugs (on that barrel extension) and of course similar interacting lugs on the rotating bolt, so any outside material obstructing its operation is undesired, so tigheter builds with as little opening as possible, specially around critical parts is the way to go to keep outside gunk from reaching inside as possible*
*However it's also a thing that tighter tolerances means relatively narrower designs etc so it's also cumbersome to clean etc but overall an acceptable tradeoff

AK, on the other hand, was given looser tolerances because the design itself is semi-open type, with locking lugs clearly visible (and in reach of outside gunk) when cycling, also soviet philosophy of 'soldier proofing' etc required it to have additional internal spacing for some acceptable level of ingress as well as easier cleaning-mitigation etc, also AK design is slightly 'stretched' one than needed to be for desired reliability purposes etc...
^so it worked on the AK,

while on AR well...first AR pattern one with relatively loosed tolerances was AR-18 and during trials it mostly failed reliability trials against dust-mud things in both US and UK trials (they did note it that with some proper revisions it could be turned into an acceptable weapon though), later when UK adoped a bullpup-ised variant of same that SA-80 series was we all know how it fared...

Also other such case, British L1A1 SLR, that also had looser tolerances etc, plus when they cut those 'sand cuts' on its bolt carrier so some acceptable level of sand-dust-shits etc ingress could stick around on those surfaces and not fail the actions etc, but it mostly didn't work...

^probably due to all these previous experiences they don't go towards lighter tolerances thing much, me thinks

VHS-2 is also in practice an AR-derivative rifle so they mostly followed what worked with AR designs,
still taking hypothetical scenario in mind,
i think they should've increased internal spacing of trigger extension side in pistol grip at least, there is some space but from disassembly part in the vdo it seems walls of the body and barrel part has somewhat narrower openings there (for keeping it compact ?) so yeah increasing some spacing etc in those sections would do it, perhaps?
but i am overall skeptical about opening up the bolt carrier side part, it's an AR design after all, probably redesign of surfaces there that is like walled around (for shell deflectors etc, as well as that dust cover locking part on receiver side etc) the ejection port would make some changes...i mean shape it in a way that mud etc doesn't easily slip on the surface and go inside when it cycles etc or something else...
 
Last edited:

Picard

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
146
Likes
404
Country flag
It would work, but it also depends on many things including design,
in AR pattern rifles keeping tighter tolerances is desired because the opening at breech face has many locking lugs (on that barrel extension) and of course similar interacting lugs on the rotating bolt, so any outside material obstructing its operation is undesired, so tigheter builds with as little opening as possible, specially around critical parts is the way to go to keep outside gunk from reaching inside as possible*
*However it's also a thing that tighter tolerances means relatively narrower designs etc so it's also cumbersome to clean etc but overall an acceptable tradeoff

AK, on the other hand, was given looser tolerances because the design itself is semi-open type, with locking lugs clearly visible (and in reach of outside gunk) when cycling, also soviet philosophy of 'soldier proofing' etc required it to have additional internal spacing for some acceptable level of ingress as well as easier cleaning-mitigation etc, also AK design is slightly 'stretched' one than needed to be for desired reliability purposes etc...
^so it worked on the AK,

while on AR well...first AR pattern one with relatively loosed tolerances was AR-18 and during trials it mostly failed reliability trials against dust-mud things in both US and UK trials (they did note it that with some proper revisions it could be turned into an acceptable weapon though), later when UK adoped a bullpup-ised variant of same that SA-80 series was we all know how it fared...

Also other such case, British L1A1 SLR, that also had looser tolerances etc, plus when they cut those 'sand cuts' on its bolt carrier so some acceptable level of sand-dust-shits etc ingress could stick around on those surfaces and not fail the actions etc, but it mostly didn't work...

^probably due to all these previous experiences they don't go towards lighter tolerances thing much, me thinks

VHS-2 is also in practice an AR-derivative rifle so they mostly followed what worked with AR designs,
still taking hypothetical scenario in mind,
i think they should've increased internal spacing of trigger extension side in pistol grip at least, there is some space but from disassembly part in the vdo it seems walls of the body and barrel part has somewhat narrower openings there (for keeping it compact ?) so yeah increasing some spacing etc in those sections would do it, perhaps?
but i am overall skeptical about opening up the bolt carrier side part, it's an AR design after all, probably redesign of surfaces there that is like walled around (for shell deflectors etc, as well as that dust cover locking part on receiver side etc) the ejection port would make some changes...i mean shape it in a way that mud etc doesn't easily slip on the surface and go inside when it cycles etc or something else...
OK, thanks.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top