Small arms and Light Weapons

When picking a gun, what would your primary consideration be?


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Johny_Baba

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Ya'll Nibbiars @Johny_Baba Nibba Cha gaye hai.

Yaar Haldi don't make stupid people like me famous, woh log khud 🅱 hikipedia pe likhe hain ki uska rate of fire 600 rounds per minute hain par mene salo se AK ka dhanadhan suna hain youtube pe jo 600 ke around hain yeh Asmi ka us se toh jyada fast laga is liye bhot hi low level ke andaaze se keh rha hu ki iska 700-750 ke around ho sakata hain, woh kal bansod ji aa ke mera popat kar denge teetar pe agar kuchh aur hi nikla toh.
 

Haldilal

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Yaar Haldi don't make stupid people like me famous, woh log khud 🅱 hikipedia pe likhe hain ki uska rate of fire 600 rounds per minute hain par mene salo se AK ka dhanadhan suna hain youtube pe jo 600 ke around hain yeh Asmi ka us se toh jyada fast laga is liye bhot hi low level ke andaaze se keh rha hu ki iska 700-750 ke around ho sakata hain, woh kal bansod ji aa ke mera popat kar denge teetar pe agar kuchh aur hi nikla toh.
Ya'll Nibbiars I have readed some where it was within 650 or 675 can't remember properlu to 750. And don't remember where or when.
 

Johny_Baba

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Talking about mounting a bayonet on free-floating barrel,

it seems there indeed exist several firearms that practice bayonet mounting that way,
but one that caught my attention was this,
1638944371976.png

H&K G36, this one here is canada registered civilian variant with canadian AR pattern bayonet,

hhmm, i mean G36 design is such that both upper and lower receivers are made of high strength polymer and even barrel trunnion (in AR-18ish design here called barrel extension) directly sits inside upper receiver...
This design would mostly work but in high intense fights i would not trust it to remain as it is,
some deformation of the polymer part sitting-housing barrel part would result in loosing of zero of the rifle at best and reliability issues at worst,
heck isn't it same thing Bundeswehr soldiers faced in Afghanistan ? like magazine dumps etc caused heated up barrel so much that some wrapping of barrel sitting inside receiver (and barrel itself) happened, causing accuracy issues and what not...all that G36 scandal...

I personally think instead of opting for all polymer receiver body H&K guys should have opted for at least aluminium upper receiver section rest could be managed in polymer housing,
granted it woud have made it slightly heavier but then again a standard vanilla G36 of Bundeswehr is already 3.6 some Kgs ,
a certain upgrade kit like offer from their 'neighbours', Austrians, came out where they offered exact same thing, a new receiver with metal trunnion etc, named Steyr G62,
1638946265076.png


but well even on metal frame rifles with free-floating barrels we see such things
1638945640007.png

2017 era pic of a french legionnaire testing out H&K416N with bayonet on its barrel
at least it's not G36 style polymer thing entirely

***********************************************************************************************************************
Anyway bringing this thing in notice because both G36 and INSAS saw induction-service in same era, in 1990s, and both faced issues of their owns that now both are getting replaced by AR pattern designs,
in one case it was probably overenginiggering and trusting non-metal materials for making even critical sections-components of a firearm, and doing kanging over it by prod enginiggers of da Heckler und Koch...
in other case...well what to say at this stage...from hurried production-induction that brought lots of QA issues to design flaws and what not...
 

ManhattanProject

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Yaar Haldi don't make stupid people like me famous, woh log khud 🅱 hikipedia pe likhe hain ki uska rate of fire 600 rounds per minute hain par mene salo se AK ka dhanadhan suna hain youtube pe jo 600 ke around hain yeh Asmi ka us se toh jyada fast laga is liye bhot hi low level ke andaaze se keh rha hu ki iska 700-750 ke around ho sakata hain, woh kal bansod ji aa ke mera popat kar denge teetar pe agar kuchh aur hi nikla toh.
Just say its between 600-1000 rounds per min..problem solved.😉
 

Whitecollar

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hard to say honestly at this stage,
both are fine in their own regards,
JVPC is at its core a scaled down, semi-bullpup-ised AK in sectioned receiver configuration; has got a gas system for effective cycling of the firearm and so, chambered in unique 5.56x30mm round,
also the kind of bullet it fires is promised to have 5.56 NATO like performance upto some close range of 200 metres and so, despite its ;protective carbine; namesake role whatever,
rate of fire on it also appears to be higher than what we saw on Asmi,
and weight of course is higher than Asmi,

Asmi, chambered in regular 9x19mm parabellum, a new design, blowback type, feeds from Glock pattern magazines, rate of fire seems 700-750 some rounds per minute, has slightly better ambidextrous controls than JVPC, has got full length rail on top with removable sights etc, hopefully would also be given a suppressor for certain roles, i guess ?

^^keeping thesebasics in mind i believe Asmi could very well be an effective supplement if not replacement for all Uzi, MP-9, MP-5, MX-4 etc lots of 9mm SMGs here, and since it also feeds from Glock pattern mags could very well bring commonality of magazines too since thousands of Glock pistols already in service,

JVPC seems to be a purpose built replacement for 9mm Sterling 'Carbines' in almost all aspects, a compact carbine like weapon meant for vehicle crews as well as high intense CQB roles [i.e. it is mostly supposed to be a counter-offensive weapon for personal defense but can very well keel if situation arises], it also is given a bayonet for similar reasons i think, and giving to its weight and unique ammo it uses i think it is better kept that way instead of standard issue SMG-ish weapon*
*Unless we also start bringing out 5.56x30mm Pistols here, making the ammo more prevalent and useful for other roles, don't understand why it wasn't done while we happily inducted FN FiveseveN pistols [chambered in 5.7x28mm FN rounds that we also mostly are importing i guess] in various SFs already and remember it was reported that JVPC was also adopted by SPGs here in some numbers so 5.56x30mm ain't some nobody round if it's also serving in protection of muh VIP peepul.
Yes it's all true...except IA changed their requirement for carbines and now want 5.56x45mm chambering carbines...which somewhat neutralizes JVPC's chance of getting selected as a replacement for Sterlings.

I'm only happy for the fact that JVPC had finally cleared Army trials...maybe some higher up might push it's adoption in future.
 

Whitecollar

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Yaar Haldi don't make stupid people like me famous, woh log khud 🅱 hikipedia pe likhe hain ki uska rate of fire 600 rounds per minute hain par mene salo se AK ka dhanadhan suna hain youtube pe jo 600 ke around hain yeh Asmi ka us se toh jyada fast laga is liye bhot hi low level ke andaaze se keh rha hu ki iska 700-750 ke around ho sakata hain, woh kal bansod ji aa ke mera popat kar denge teetar pe agar kuchh aur hi nikla toh.
I wonder if ASMI has that special superpower of AK family: when enough bullets are fired, rate of fire increases significantly...
 

Haldilal

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This...
This person is Payel Senapati probably from IDRW. He/she is known to favor Ruskies arms and equipments heavily.
Ya'll Nibbiars yeh is he and sab ko pata hai. Lekin kabhi kabhi bhaut line ke aage jate hai yeh janab.
 

Marliii

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JVPC needs to be finalized for Carbine requirement. 5.56x30 effective enough till 150mtrs. Enough with buying phoren maal.
That's like adopting cartridge especially for CQB when you got millions of rounds5.56 available.and JVPC is a Not an SBR that can be used by shocktroops etc
 

Whitecollar

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That's like adopting cartridge especially for CQB when you got millions of rounds5.56 available.and JVPC is a Not an SBR that can be used by shocktroops etc
We also export 5.56x45mm so having ample of ammo isn't an issue. You may have seen Army destroy old unused ammo dumps.
5.56x30 guns like Amogh already in service since 7-8 yrs hence cartridge isn't a bad one either.
We even have homegrown 556 NATO carbines...never saw IA getting excited about them either. Plus they will need to go thru tedious Army trials. JVPC has already cleared that.

So for JVPC: range isn't issue, lethality isn't issue, fire rate isn't issue.
 

Marliii

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We also export 5.56x45mm so having ample of ammo isn't an issue. You may have seen Army destroy old unused ammo dumps.
5.56x30 guns like Amogh already in service since 7-8 yrs hence cartridge isn't a bad one either.
We even have homegrown 556 NATO carbines...never saw IA getting excited about them either. Plus they will need to go thru tedious Army trials. JVPC has already cleared that.

So for JVPC: range isn't issue, lethality isn't issue, fire rate isn't issue.
Adding another round is still a no brained.army got a competition for 5.56 carbines .let OFB get their new carbine and compete with other indian companies .no more "we are OFB we make guns take it army" shit.adapt or perish
 

Whitecollar

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army got a competition for 5.56 carbines .let OFB get their new carbine and compete with other indian companies .no more "we are OFB we make guns take it army" shit.adapt or perish
What happened to Excalibur after getting into final trial of INSAS replacement tender?
If Excalibur was rejected as it didn't meet Army standards, then who won the tender??
Were Govt babus sleeping or all of a sudden it dawned upon IA Gernails that 7.62 NATO would be the way forward??

OFB is equally to be blamed for not aspiring higher and trying to compete in QA/QC/Modern ergonomics dept. Taali kavi ek haat se nhi bajti bro
 

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