Small arms and Light Weapons

[Marliii]

Which gun will PLR put in competition my guts say they may still put the ace21

 

[FalconSlayers]

Which gun will PLR put in competition my guts say they may still put the ace21

Nah, Galil ACE has overall length of just 730mm with 8.5” barrel, the 13” one has 847mm barrel hence both are out of question, my wild guess would be the IWI Arad with exact 800mm overall length with a 11.5” barrel.

 

[Marliii]

Nah, Galil ACE has overall length of just 730mm with 8.5” barrel, the 13” one has 800+ mm barrel hence both are out of question, my wild guess would be the IWI Arad with exact 800mm overall length with a 11.5” barrel.

Yup Arad is the perfect choice carmel looks like a pregnant gun

 

[FalconSlayers]

Yup Arad is the perfect choice carmel looks like a pregnant gun

But then diplomatic push for relations with UAE could land us with CAR-816 which no doubt among the best AR-15 rifle available but my concern is their 10.5” variant, I would love if they offer a 11.5” variant even though it is just a difference of an inch but an inch increases accuracy and muzzle velocity even with a significant margin with just a small increase in barrel length.

 

[Flying Dagger]

What do you expect from 7.62x51 ammo? It’s recoil really kicks hard, and the guy fell because he fired on full auto which means three times the punch, this caliber is used mostly in Marksman rifles and Snipers.

Just see how they are holding the rifle they will definitely feel more recoil like that.

And we used that round for decades with SLR.

SCAR H is perfect example how a good rifle can help handle the large recoil.

 

[Flying Dagger]

But then diplomatic push for relations with UAE could land us with CAR-816 which no doubt among the best AR-15 rifle available but my concern is their 10.5” variant, I would love if they offer a 11.5” variant even though it is just a difference of an inch but an inch increases accuracy and muzzle velocity even with a significant margin with just a small increase in barrel length.

Listen to Modi's speech today he specifically pointed out at small arms i.e. rifles import.

Don't know if it's all talk or they are planning something in that dept now.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

View attachment 79337

Fuck that camouflage is so good!! Look at our camo it's literally sticking out and can be easily made, this is the reason why complete change in uniform preferably to digi camouflages like UCP is required.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Blanks (wooden) ammunition used during exercise in Finland. It's Extensively used in Sako RK95-TP.
The cartridge can be reused after firing.

 

[Twinblade]

IA RFI states collapsed length of 650mm. AR 15 derivatives will struggle to meet collapsed length unless equipped with 10" barrel.

 

[Johny_Baba]

Damn they aren't able to even properly aim and hold rifle one guy literaly fell due to recoil it seems.

What do you expect from 7.62x51 ammo? It’s recoil really kicks hard, and the guy fell because he fired on full auto which means three times the punch, this caliber is used mostly in Marksman rifles and Snipers.

Someone has said it right that Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.

A lot has been said about 7.62 NATO being heavy recoiling round, and when you marry it with a rifle design that's also infamous for being heavy-kicking and uncontrollable (specially on full auto) i.e. AR-10 what else you expect ?

Let's look at some cases from past,of then primary adopters of AR-10 and what they replaced it with,
Sudan - locally manufactured it,Sudanese variant, they replaced it with G-3 in same 7.62 NATO
Portugal - same as Sudan,had Portuguese variant,they replaced it with...guess what,G-3
The Netherlands - Now they manufactured it and adopted it in limited numbers but even before it could've become their standard issue rifle a lot of things happened (with both their army and the Portuguese ones) and they ended up adopting FN FAL, which they later replaced with canadian Diemaco C7/C8 series rifle-carbines etc

As for having a firearm that could effectively take down enemies at those ranges where 5.56 NATO isn't that effective, what was need of AR-10 pattern rifle when same job could've been done by our old workhorse 1A SLR, albeit with a little 'modernisation' ?
Just look at the Irish Army, they were equipped with FN FAL in past which they later replaced with Steyr AUG,
but when they realised they may need a hard-hitting weapon for ranges where AUG couldn't effectively work,they pulled out older FALs, modernised it and re-adopted it as battle rifle-DMR thing at squad level.

We even had an alternative in name of OFB R-2 (now Ishapore Assault Rifle) that was INSAS Excalibur MK.1C in 7.62 NATO but then on range they made comments like "Recoil kaafi hain iska.." after firing it from hip
but are completely fine with SIG716i equipped jawans getting pushed back when it is fired

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Sig 716 needs a muzzle break to reduce the recoil.
The present firing demostration vido from IA shows it is literally pushing the shooter disbalanced when firing in a kneel down position.

 

[Killbot]

Sig 716 needs a muzzle break to reduce the recoil.
The present firing demostration vido from IA shows it is literally pushing the shooter disbalanced when firing in a kneel down position.

Said this before. Muzzle brake is a huuuuuge no-no for an infantry rifle. Plus, the recoil impulse disvalancing the shooter has to do more with the fact that he isn't used to the gun. Just needs to lean in a little bit more and grip the gun a few inches forward. And tuck his hands in, get rid of the chicken wing.

Smaller gun, but still...

 

[Johny_Baba]

*Sigh* you can train soldiers to make them adopt to any rifle but can you change basic characteristics of firearms ? Then what is a better thing, to adopt something that has worked well for us and adjust it as per needs, or just getting something which is similar in overall performance and mass-retraining troops to make them adopt to it

 

[Flying Dagger]

*Sigh* you can train soldiers to make them adopt to any rifle but can you change basic characteristics of firearms ? Then what is a better thing, to adopt something that has worked well for us and adjust it as per needs, or just getting something which is similar in overall performance and mass-retraining troops to make them adopt to it

I agree but those guys were literally handling the rifle like amateurs .

SLR was always a reliable weapon and should have been modernised when INSAS faced issue.

SCAR H like modern rifle are made to handle recoil of bigger round and should have been adopted.

Here again I have to say we should have take a look at 6.8/6.5 round for the job.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

SLR 1C was a good choice. However, it was rejected because of the recoil. Same was the complain in the case with Insas R-2 rifle, which prompted OFB to mount a big muzzle break.

In both cases, it can be argued that improper stance led to more visible recoil. In Insas R-2 case, there was a video where Lt. Gen Y.K. Joshi was firing from the hip, and he too complained about the recoil.

IMHO, SLR should never have been completely disbanded. Modern metallurgy with heavy barrel and accessories (like picatinny rail, M-LOK, AR style buttstock withbuffer tube etc) can transform the cold war relic into a very potent modern day firearm, similar to what DSA is doing.

Pakis have never abandonned the G-3 till now.

 

[Flying Dagger]

The recoil will be there , G3 or SLR are heavy so the felt recoil is less while Sig is lighter.

The main issue is 7.62 round here.

Unless we are going to get something like SCAR which handles the recoil differently despite being lighter to carry.

Next we need to train the infantry too.

This rifle is meant for 5.56 NATO round I guess.

 

[Whitecollar]

Someone has said it right that Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it.

A lot has been said about 7.62 NATO being heavy recoiling round, and when you marry it with a rifle design that's also infamous for being heavy-kicking and uncontrollable (specially on full auto) i.e. AR-10 what else you expect ?

Let's look at some cases from past,of then primary adopters of AR-10 and what they replaced it with,
Sudan - locally manufactured it,Sudanese variant, they replaced it with G-3 in same 7.62 NATO
Portugal - same as Sudan,had Portuguese variant,they replaced it with...guess what,G-3
The Netherlands - Now they manufactured it and adopted it in limited numbers but even before it could've become their standard issue rifle a lot of things happened (with both their army and the Portuguese ones) and they ended up adopting FN FAL, which they later replaced with canadian Diemaco C7/C8 series rifle-carbines etc

As for having a firearm that could effectively take down enemies at those ranges where 5.56 NATO isn't that effective, what was need of AR-10 pattern rifle when same job could've been done by our old workhorse 1A SLR, albeit with a little 'modernisation' ?
Just look at the Irish Army, they were equipped with FN FAL in past which they later replaced with Steyr AUG,
but when they realised they may need a hard-hitting weapon for ranges where AUG couldn't effectively work,they pulled out older FALs, modernised it and re-adopted it as battle rifle-DMR thing at squad level.View attachment 79376

We even had an alternative in name of OFB R-2 (now Ishapore Assault Rifle) that was INSAS Excalibur MK.1C in 7.62 NATO but then on range they made comments like "Recoil kaafi hain iska.." after firing it from hip
but are completely fine with SIG716i equipped jawans getting pushed back when it is fired

FAB mod FAL for the win dude!!
Anyways G3, I guess kicks rather little softer due to delayed rollerback technology.

 

[Whitecollar]

Sig 716 needs a muzzle break to reduce the recoil.
The present firing demostration vido from IA shows it is literally pushing the shooter disbalanced when firing in a kneel down position.

Ain't nothing gonna reduce the recoil of a 7.62 NATO. That thing is made to hit back given the fact that next larger round is LAPUA and that thing can easily break the shoulders if shooter is untrained.
All in all, 7.62 hits like a truck at the front end and hits like a two wheeler at the other end and there's no changing it.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Listen to Modi's speech today he specifically pointed out at small arms i.e. rifles import.

Don't know if it's all talk or they are planning something in that dept now.

They will get CAR-816 imported, but I would pitch Arad because it is lighter than CAR-816, has an 11.5” barrel, and has a high rate of fire.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Ain't nothing gonna reduce the recoil of a 7.62 NATO. That thing is made to hit back given the fact that next larger round is LAPUA and that thing can easily break the shoulders if shooter is untrained.
All in all, 7.62 hits like a truck at the front end and hits like a two wheeler at the other end and there's no changing it.

They will get CAR-816 imported, but I would pitch Arad because it is lighter than CAR-816, has an 11.5” barrel, and has a high rate of fire.

But then CAR-816 is said to be much more reliable and is more combat proven than Arad which is a new offering, but then I have never seen an Emirati soldier with CAR-816, only with M16s and M4s.