Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

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Absolut_Vodka

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I am not sure on Hassan siddiqui coz his name has been out and he's credited with the op ,so he might be alive but shahbaz has not been credited so, he might be the one who's dead.
I mean why will they release the name of a dead pilot ,to only get caught with pants down ,so I think they are deliberately letting speculations grow on Hassan siddiqui ,just to shut us up by showing him ,like they did with shajuddin .
That's why news came through Tu Fail rather than directly from DJ ISPR so that there is always a deniability if things go south.

Shahaz-ud-Din name was circulated by London-based lawyer Khalid Umar and Indian media picked it up.
 

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R&AW steps up vigil, cripples China-Pak nexus in Arabian Sea region
Saturday, 29 June 2019 | IANS | New Delhi

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In a bid to check growing influence of China-Pakistan nexus in the Indian Ocean, India's external intelligence agency, Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) is bolstering up its maritime intelligence network, laying more emphasis on the Arabian Sea region. Eight months ago, in the tenure of the then President of Maldives, Abdullah Yameen, capital city Male had become overseas hub of Pakistan's spy agency, the Inter Services Intelligence (ISI).

A secret report of RA&W reveals that Indian agency successfully thwarted ISI designs in the strategic island of Maldives. The ISI, backed by Ministry of State Security, MSS (Chinese spy agency) and involving a few close aides of former Maldives President Abdullah Yameen, was encouraging anti-India activities being operated from Pakistan's embassy located in Male, report says. Yameen was allegedly close to a senior Pakistan diplomat and was later trapped by the Chinese agency.

The report says that during the tenure of Abdullah Yameen, President of Mauritius (2013-2018), the Chinese gained military, economic and political influence in the strategic island. Yameen's activities did not find favours with India.

A highly placed source in the government told IANS that Chinese invested more than 2 billion dollars in large-scale infrastructure projects, but the money pumped in by Beijing was more in the form of a loan. Yameen entertained several Chinese companies and even leased small islands to them.

According to a source, the situation changed once Ibrahim Mohammed Solih took over as Maldives' new President. "Finally Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent visit to Maldives (June 8 and 9) was a morale booster for India's security and intelligence agencies. National Security Advisor Ajit Doval was the key person in planning this first foreign visit of Modi in his second term, a source said.

Sources said that former President Yameen was also close to Pakistan and had allegedly facilitated ISI to increase its presence in the island country. During Yameen's tenure, Pakistan Embassy at Lily Magu area in Male had become an overseas hub of ISI, engaged in hatching conspiracies against India. In fact Pakistan's Ambassador played a key role in bringing Beijing closer to Yameen.

Turning the tide against Yameen, pro-India leader Ibrahim Mohammed Solih took an anti-China stance in last year's election and succeeded in his mission. Sources said once Solih took over the reins in Male, ISI's growing influence in the Maldives was gradually neutralised. Besides Maldives, R&AW is also stepping up its vigil of Chinese vessels around Seychelles and Mauritius.

New R&AW Chief Samant Goel, an expert on Sino-Pak affairs with more than 18 years of experience in the agency now plays an important role in stepping up India's vigil in the Arabian sea region. Goel, a 1984 batch IPS officer, is said to be close to Ajit Doval and has been a key figure in chalking out the planning of Balakot air strike early this year.

"With Doval at the helm, his close aide Samant, a meritorious officer, can take the agency to a new height of professionalism. As far as checking the growing influence of China in the Indian Ocean is concerned , the RA&W is quite capable of achieving its set objective," said a former senior official of India's external agency.

Sources said to rejuvenate the cadre and enhance human intelligence, RA&W has got rid over several officers who were not performing up to the mark. The officers whose identity was compromised or against whom there were complaints relating to integrity, were also shown the door.

The agency has also procured state-of-the-art gadgets and is well-equipped to intercept conversations of satellite phones.

In cyber-related surveillance RA&W can be compared with any top spy agency of the world including Mossad (Israel) or China's Ministry of State Security, MSS. Sources said apart from increasing maritime presence, MSS is also focusing on economic espionage as China becomes a major telecom player.

The MSS boasts of some of the best hackers who can break into any secret data from a server located in any part of world. Sources said R&AW is well equipped to tackle any such cyber threat originating from any part of the globe.
 

sorcerer

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patriots

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After Feb 27
1.Iaf testing new a2a missiles from Russia
2.40 su30 with brahmos will be equipped in a speed,2 in this year
3.more spice 2000 ordered
4.300 crore spike mpatgm deal with Israel
5.200 crore atgm(for mi35) deal with Russia by iaf
6.iaf ordered astra


Is not Feb 27 a boon for armed forces......
 

rone

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After Feb 27
1.Iaf testing new a2a missiles from Russia
2.40 su30 with brahmos will be equipped in a speed,2 in this year
3.more spice 2000 ordered
4.300 crore spike mpatgm deal with Israel
5.200 crore atgm(for mi35) deal with Russia by iaf
6.iaf ordered astra


Is not Feb 27 a boon for armed forces......

feb27 is really boon for us we found out that some of our operational protocols have to rewritten, becoz ur enemy won't play with ROE , also the 3decade-old fighter will be drow back to 2nd line
 

The Ultranationalist

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After Feb 27
1.Iaf testing new a2a missiles from Russia
2.40 su30 with brahmos will be equipped in a speed,2 in this year
3.more spice 2000 ordered
4.300 crore spike mpatgm deal with Israel
5.200 crore atgm(for mi35) deal with Russia by iaf
6.iaf ordered astra


Is not Feb 27 a boon for armed forces......
Of course, i hope the stupid IAF brass has woken up from their slumber and induct some excellent quality long range A2A missiles like the Meteors and check the training and operational gaps so as to avoid another friendly fire related deaths and retire the soviet era antiques. Till that time they were relying on the overwhelming superiority of our air force which will definitely crush the porks in a long drawn war but in hit and run situations and skirmishes like that on Feb 27 the side which has better and longer range A2A missiles can use them to their advantage. To engage a Flanker in WVR combat is a suicide but even a Spitfire is equipped with a radar with enough range and an longer range BVR missile it can take out a Flanker. Coward porki air force sta the Kargil war out due to their lack of BVR capability while the IAF possessed it. Porkies learned that lessons and our air force became ignorant and careless. On Feb 27 porkies played their cards well, shooting and wasting their AMRAAMS by firing from beyond the no escape zone of the AMRAAMs and as a result the MKIs easily dodged them but they couldn get a firing solution as their R&& missile lacked range. Our braveheart Abhinandan chased those coward ******s with his 4 decade old MiG 21 and entered the POK where porkies has numerical superiority and shot him down with their F 16s. We should now rearm our forces quickly and whack the porkies this time real hard.
 

mist_consecutive

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After Feb 27
1.Iaf testing new a2a missiles from Russia
2.40 su30 with brahmos will be equipped in a speed,2 in this year
3.more spice 2000 ordered
4.300 crore spike mpatgm deal with Israel
5.200 crore atgm(for mi35) deal with Russia by iaf
6.iaf ordered astra


Is not Feb 27 a boon for armed forces......
27th Feb also exposed many shortcomings and of our Airforce, both in tactics and weaponry.

I am rather disappointed with our IAF and it's practice regime. Being boasted as most stringently trained airforce with zero rule violations, but in an actual wartime scenario, we saw rather an abundance of incompetence.

  • Shortcomings in A2A weapons :- So we are operating R 77 Adder from 2002 I believe. So we didn't even identify, let alone address the problem of its serviceability and inadequate performance? Don't we train and devise tactics with these missile performances? Or we just assume that since we have BVR with x range, automatically anything within x range is dead? :doh:
    Do we need wars to find out our shortcomings? If Indo - Pak conflict would have dragged on, we would have definitely suffered more casualties due to our inadequate BVR missiles, with only effective BVR in our arsenal as of now, I think is MICA, that even on Mirage-2000.

  • Gross Incompetence by SPYDER SAM operator :- Nothing to say, it's just regrettable.

  • Hot-headed Abhinandan :- What, on earth, exactly he was thinking? Or he was even thinking? Hot-headed adrenalin fueled reactions like that are not expected from fighter pilots.
    Barging into Pakistan, alone, in a fucking Mig-21, that too not like 2-4 km, but nearly 10 km inside Pakistan. Yeah, good he shot down an F-16, but if he would have failed, then what?
 

arya

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27th Feb also exposed many shortcomings and of our Airforce, both in tactics and weaponry.

I am rather disappointed with our IAF and it's practice regime. Being boasted as most stringently trained airforce with zero rule violations, but in an actual wartime scenario, we saw rather an abundance of incompetence.

  • Shortcomings in A2A weapons :- So we are operating R 77 Adder from 2002 I believe. So we didn't even identify, let alone address the problem of its serviceability and inadequate performance? Don't we train and devise tactics with these missile performances? Or we just assume that since we have BVR with x range, automatically anything within x range is dead? :doh:
    Do we need wars to find out our shortcomings? If Indo - Pak conflict would have dragged on, we would have definitely suffered more casualties due to our inadequate BVR missiles, with only effective BVR in our arsenal as of now, I think is MICA, that even on Mirage-2000.

  • Gross Incompetence by SPYDER SAM operator :- Nothing to say, it's just regrettable.

  • Hot-headed Abhinandan :- What, on earth, exactly he was thinking? Or he was even thinking? Hot-headed adrenalin fueled reactions like that are not expected from fighter pilots.
    Barging into Pakistan, alone, in a fucking Mig-21, that too not like 2-4 km, but nearly 10 km inside Pakistan. Yeah, good he shot down an F-16, but if he would have failed, then what?

Because we Indian believe war will never happen never , but if you china & Pakistan is preparing war may happen next day . now Pakistan airforce is getting more birds while we are crying for MMRCA 1 & now 2.

Well no doubt our defence budget is very very poor for 2 front .
 

arya

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27th Feb also exposed many shortcomings and of our Airforce, both in tactics and weaponry.

I am rather disappointed with our IAF and it's practice regime. Being boasted as most stringently trained airforce with zero rule violations, but in an actual wartime scenario, we saw rather an abundance of incompetence.

  • Shortcomings in A2A weapons :- So we are operating R 77 Adder from 2002 I believe. So we didn't even identify, let alone address the problem of its serviceability and inadequate performance? Don't we train and devise tactics with these missile performances? Or we just assume that since we have BVR with x range, automatically anything within x range is dead? :doh:
    Do we need wars to find out our shortcomings? If Indo - Pak conflict would have dragged on, we would have definitely suffered more casualties due to our inadequate BVR missiles, with only effective BVR in our arsenal as of now, I think is MICA, that even on Mirage-2000.

  • Gross Incompetence by SPYDER SAM operator :- Nothing to say, it's just regrettable.

  • Hot-headed Abhinandan :- What, on earth, exactly he was thinking? Or he was even thinking? Hot-headed adrenalin fueled reactions like that are not expected from fighter pilots.
    Barging into Pakistan, alone, in a fucking Mig-21, that too not like 2-4 km, but nearly 10 km inside Pakistan. Yeah, good he shot down an F-16, but if he would have failed, then what?

just few days back you was saying why i am asking question ?? why i am putting question on Modi ji & few one called me i am working for lobbyist and see now your are saying .

Well bro no matter we like or not but our preparation is very poor , our govt babus & thinktank is slepping
 

Deathstar

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27th Feb also exposed many shortcomings and of our Airforce, both in tactics and weaponry.

I am rather disappointed with our IAF and it's practice regime. Being boasted as most stringently trained airforce with zero rule violations, but in an actual wartime scenario, we saw rather an abundance of incompetence.

  • Shortcomings in A2A weapons :- So we are operating R 77 Adder from 2002 I believe. So we didn't even identify, let alone address the problem of its serviceability and inadequate performance? Don't we train and devise tactics with these missile performances? Or we just assume that since we have BVR with x range, automatically anything within x range is dead? :doh:
    Do we need wars to find out our shortcomings? If Indo - Pak conflict would have dragged on, we would have definitely suffered more casualties due to our inadequate BVR missiles, with only effective BVR in our arsenal as of now, I think is MICA, that even on Mirage-2000.

  • Gross Incompetence by SPYDER SAM operator :- Nothing to say, it's just regrettable.

  • Hot-headed Abhinandan :- What, on earth, exactly he was thinking? Or he was even thinking? Hot-headed adrenalin fueled reactions like that are not expected from fighter pilots.
    Barging into Pakistan, alone, in a fucking Mig-21, that too not like 2-4 km, but nearly 10 km inside Pakistan. Yeah, good he shot down an F-16, but if he would have failed, then what?
I don't think so Abhi ignored orders to go cold , probably his communications were jammed , thats why he didnt even realise that he had crosses LoC
 

mist_consecutive

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just few days back you was saying why i am asking question ?? why i am putting question on Modi ji & few one called me i am working for lobbyist and see now your are saying .

Well bro no matter we like or not but our preparation is very poor , our govt babus & thinktank is slepping
@arya I never said that. We are different from Porkis and Chinis because we can question our govt. and forces. What I opposed was your views of F-16 being superior than Su-30, that, even now, I deem incorrect.

For reference what I said....

Had too many bottles? I understand its Friday night.

Mig-21 Bison wiped the floor with F-16s, soo much for F-16 superiority.
 

mist_consecutive

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I don't think so Abhi ignored orders to go cold , probably his communications were jammed , thats why he didnt even realise that he had crosses LoC
No comms were jammed. It's an misinformation spread by Paki posters that their super duper EW suite jammed our radars and comms.
 

mist_consecutive

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I have heard a lot of things both pro and cons ,and as far as I found out all of them are opinions ,do you have a source for above shortcomings or are they just opinions read here and there?
Also it's said ALLEGEDLY that Abhinandan wasn't able to listen to the loc warning due to jamming by porks ,

and that 10 km is allegedly where PARTS of his MIG 21 were found(some people believe porkies deliberately positioned parts of MIG according to their narrative or something like that) ,
so it can be safely assumed whatever happened , happened just around 1-2-3 km of LOC after that it's crash distance ,
The pics of the crash according to vtsol jockey doesn't add up because it's nose wasn't in the condition which suggests that it face dived but the body and nose seems to imply that it was horizontal crash means MIG glided over a period then crashed, also damage to certain parts looked like it was done deliberately after and bullet holes on only one part of MIG.

Unless we have complete report everything is speculation as supposedly certain aircrafts were protecting assets like ammo dumps etc and by the time reinforcements arrived porks were long gone ,
AND this wasn't a WAR, this was a skirmish in which they were stopped at LOC itself and IAF tactics were on point and as good as they can be , don't blow hot air or explain what you mean by tactics ,because the chasing IAF fighters quicky recognised that this was a bait for AMBUSH and disengaged and protected the assets and also forcing most of pork weapons to fail and miss even when they were only one third in numbers (my only complain) .

Abhi's situation and actions can only be analysed if you were present during his debrief ,if not then everything is speculation as we don't have complete info.
Regarding comm jamming misinformation, ofc I cannot give you a solid proof in form of IAF statement or news article, but I can give you a hint. If you can infer from that.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ocked-on-to-pak-f-16/articleshow/68238027.cms

His last radio transmission, "R73 selected". He was well behind enemy lines at that time. And if comm. jamming was present, we would not have received his message.

Also regarding the distance, he crossed into pakistan, I am not basing it upon crash location. He was hit in the tail by AMRAAM, annular blast fragment of AMRAAM sliced Mig21 fuselage in half. He was sprinting towards India, full afterburners when he was hit.

I am basing his ingression upon this.


See, there was a time when we defended our IAF and its actions, smacking Paki posters to oblivion. But now is the time for introspection on what went wrong, and what could be rectified.

Cheers mate.
 

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99% of the "information" regarding this entire incident is hearsay. I would hazard a guess to say most of this is BS cooked up by overzealous reporters.

Distill out the concise information given out by official channels (IAF press conference) and compare what was presented / said there vs the wild insinuations in the media.

Basically we the public know very little and the IAF has said even less. So why do we continue to endlessly debate about it on this page?
 

Immanuel

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27th Feb also exposed many shortcomings and of our Airforce, both in tactics and weaponry.

I am rather disappointed with our IAF and it's practice regime. Being boasted as most stringently trained airforce with zero rule violations, but in an actual wartime scenario, we saw rather an abundance of incompetence.

  • Shortcomings in A2A weapons :- So we are operating R 77 Adder from 2002 I believe. So we didn't even identify, let alone address the problem of its serviceability and inadequate performance? Don't we train and devise tactics with these missile performances? Or we just assume that since we have BVR with x range, automatically anything within x range is dead? :doh:
    Do we need wars to find out our shortcomings? If Indo - Pak conflict would have dragged on, we would have definitely suffered more casualties due to our inadequate BVR missiles, with only effective BVR in our arsenal as of now, I think is MICA, that even on Mirage-2000.

  • Gross Incompetence by SPYDER SAM operator :- Nothing to say, it's just regrettable.

  • Hot-headed Abhinandan :- What, on earth, exactly he was thinking? Or he was even thinking? Hot-headed adrenalin fueled reactions like that are not expected from fighter pilots.
    Barging into Pakistan, alone, in a fucking Mig-21, that too not like 2-4 km, but nearly 10 km inside Pakistan. Yeah, good he shot down an F-16, but if he would have failed, then what?
Misinfo. mixed with non sense to say the least

Our fighters followed SOP strictly, the enemy didn't cross LOC, they fired from well within their side (confirmed by Chief himself). MKI were already fired upon when Wing Co was underway in his Bison, he was only alerted that he was crossing LOC shortly and that he would be at much higher risk. He was never reprimanded for his actions. He was never told not to cross LOC or not to engage. They took off and were given 'fire at will' orders as soon as the first MKI were being shot at. Wingco is a modern day Babbar Sher, you of little knowledge on tactics or proper indoctrination of aerial warfare should just chill. Wingco is the reason the Pukis shut down their airspace for more than a month entirely. They were pissing their pants. Wingco was closely followed by his Wingman who was also shot at well with in NEZ of the Aim, no one talks about how the that guy against all odds dodged the Aim within NEZ.

The enemy fired their volleys at Dmax, heck even I can dodge a Meteor at DMax in a spitfire, let alone a aerial ballet queen the MKI. The Napapki pilots were trolling and everyone knows one shouldn't engage a troll specially when the troll turns tail and runs after shooting off his load. The R-77s could have been launched at DMAX but by then one of their F-16 was blown to bits, the ones who shot at the MKI were high tailing it back to base supersonic like their Goats got raped. Had the MKI chased them a bit more closer to the LOC, they would have AA gunners waiting to shoot at the MKI. Actually they wanted badly to kill the MKI that day.

When one takes off in the Mi-17 without the IFF on, that was breach of SOP and SAM operator cannot be blamed, as far as he is concerned, his base just scrambled two Mig-21s to take on an element of over 20 enemy fighters heading to the LOC. Spyder SAM would have been in auto track and engage mode. The Mi-17 was shot down at low altitude. Low altitude ingress for enemy is common practice especially helos bringing in SF elements for ops. So no chances could be taken. The base commander has been thrown out for this violation. The error here was human.

If anything this whole episode proved, MKI, heck even Bison is hard to kill because they have some ballsy, audacious pilots, world class pilots, who remain calm and can exploit the machine they fly to the best of their abilities.

To write off the old R-77 is also silly, fired within NEZ, they still have a 80% kill rate. Wingco could have used the R-77 too but he chose instead to sneak up on the Falcons in passive mode from a lower altitude and release the ass-heat loving R-73 in NEZ ranges. Since the Pukis love it so much up the bum-bum, he just indulged that itch.
Heck the Wingco sneaking up onto them, shooting one down was so surprising to them that the F-16s in the area probably didn't have time to slew their radar onto WingCo & Wing man and fired their Aims in Mad-dog mode and ran.
 

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  • Hot-headed Abhinandan :- What, on earth, exactly he was thinking? Or he was even thinking? Hot-headed adrenalin fueled reactions like that are not expected from fighter pilots.
    Barging into Pakistan, alone, in a fucking Mig-21, that too not like 2-4 km, but nearly 10 km inside Pakistan. Yeah, good he shot down an F-16, but if he would have failed, then what?
Do you think a self-controlled man would sport such mustache? Machoism was oozing out of him. He was even trolling Paki army in custody.


This was his attitude after being shot up, ejection, beaten and going to ISI HQ for further torture. Any one of these event can shake a normal human. He experienced all four.
 
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Deathstar

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How the fuck does paki inbred brain works ,who asks such a question? Is he a paki officer? These guys are too too insecure and seek constant approval ,constant praise or they will get depressed.
Can you imagine Indian army officer asking this question to a captured porki ,imagine us asking this question to a terrorist what do you think of Indian army?
What is wrong with paki people as a whole and same with a large number of Indian muzzies ? Turks ,Persians even Arabs don't behave like them .
Because no one likes them , Arabs , Turks , Persians look down on them and think they are converted muslims hence impure while Christians already hate all muzzies due to their bloody history , similarly with the Hindus , Hindus were always the elites during British era and even before that
 
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