Skirmishs at LOC, LAC & International Border

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pankaj nema

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U call killing 7 people for 4 a befitting reply?

U know what a Major is?

If you play chess will you call killing an elephant equal to killing a pawn?

Ya we should wait for next escalation.We should wait till more people are killed and then we will kill 2 more than them.

YYYAAAAAYYYY!!!!
I am not asking for our attacks to stop

We must kill Hundreds of Pakistani soldiers

But how ;That is Best Left to the Army to decide

Army has been given the Rights to take Preemptive and Punitive strikes

In fact I want Heavy Artillery to be used

Since last two days people including ME were saying that Neither PM nor DM Tweeted about our losses

So every body was angry

But now it is clear that what matters is the Action that we
take against the enemy rather than any Tweets
 

Tony HMG

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Our policy of only retaliating after getting continuously attacked will not yield any results. We have to do
pre-emptive strikes massively. This ping pong game of tit for tat killings makes Pakistan more bolder. The pak punjabi army families should be targeted to deter them. We have been always like cowards, due to our pussy political leaders. Retribution should be so worse that every paki should shit their pants. Target paki reservoirs, power plants, schools, colleges, cantonments, bridges. Otherwise brace your selves for frequent pathankots, 26/11, mutilations, etc etc etc
 

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So, there has been a lot of anger against the govt. the last two days, and considering the casualties, the anger is justified. But, I would like to add a few words. First the events and then my comments.

I remember the dark days of the Indian Army 5-6 years back. The Indian Army seldom were given the chances to retaliate against indiscriminate firing from across LC. Even the cross-border raids were taken at the local unit level CO. Promising action against TSP and no soft-hand dealing with TSP.
But, it came as an utter shock to see him inviting Nawaz Sharif for his oath-taking, and some thought perhaps this is a new beginning in the Indo-Pak relations. But, we know better than to trust napaaki's, don't we? Within a few months they showed their true colors. And India had no response for the initial days, I was like, "what exactly is the policy against Pakistan, first inviting them over, and now no response to indiscriminate firing". That was my first disappointment with Modi. But, within a day or two, the govt. gave free hand to the forces to open fire on sight. They had no response. Also, the govt. had instructed the Army and BSF to not hold any flag meetings until they mend their ways. Then, they came around for some time after a request for meeting with the MEA. I thought that would be a norm, but it wasn't. Yes, a disappointment.
The same incidents continued, but on a small scale considerably. And then in Dec `15, he met Sharif in Pak on a surprise visit. Some might have called it a blunder, and are still blaming him for it, but I would call it is brilliant decision. That move can be considered so because, we can say that world that we are trying for peace, but they don't seem to want it, though again sometimes I feel it was unnecessary to say the world, that we are attempting. Within a span of 6 days, Pathankot happened. I don't have to say about the happenings, during and post the attack. I still feel that a strong action must have been taken. And then come Sep 18 `16, our soldiers made the ultimate sacrifice without fighting, when they were asleep. The Nation was aghast, asked for answers and wanted to know what was the ^^so-called Pak policy^^. Everyone supporter and otherwise slammed the govt, and brought out old statements of Modi. Then in 3 days around 21-23rd, not exactly sure of the date, but there was a cross-border raid which was not officially accepted nor denied, and then on the 29th the surgical strike happened. Everyone praised it, including us on this forum. Though we clearly knew that it won't change anything much, but perhaps we were just to happy that blood was shed and hell followed their deceased. And after that, talks of war were in the air, I remember the talks of fighter jets flying in Islamabad, and roads being closed, etc. And it was silenced in a few days. Then it continued. Cease-fire violations, infiltration attempts, and us killing them, and now recently, 4 of them were killed including a Major. This has upset the jingos who had high expectations from the Modi govt.

First off, let me be frank. It's no new fact that the National Security issues are being overlooked by the NSA Shri Ajit Doval, and I have made it abundantly clear in the past that I am a fanboi of him. Now, if someone asks me, who would I trust, I would anyday say the man himself than amateur armchair defence enthusiasts (no offense to anyone, but if you do feel, go ahead). He believes in offensive-defense, and we are seeing it in Kashmir, right now. Now, a few have been saying, we should kill the masterminds and not the cannon fodder like the kills which the IA have been sending to the hoors lately, I 100% agree. No disputing the fact at all. But, see the bigger picture. There have been a lot of surrenders lately along with the kills. The point of this cleaning drive in Kashmir is for one simple reason, to reduce this very same cannon-fodder. If we tighten the border with the tech, though it's tough to do the entire border due to the terrain, this no. can be reduced drastically. Hope my analysis is correct. One thing which I would really like is the repeat of the 2014 instructions, fire indiscriminately, and this time just do not stop and if they come begging, ask them to push their outpost 10kms back so it remains as a buffer region and can help in a tighter vigil.
Sometimes, the wishes of all cannot be granted immediately, but all we can do is have faith and hope that it will be fulfilled. I know, we have waited for 3.5 years, but when we consider the 70 years of Independence, it is indeed a short time.

I know, I might be lambasted for this post by a few about misplaced trust and hope, but all I can say is my gut feeling is saying that there is hope, and I shall go by it.
I wont criticise you coz you are coming from where i was exactly 1 year ago.

Do you think reacting or taking a revenge of killing 4 soldiers is 'Offensive Defense'?

I think offensive defense is to take actions before we are harmed.Your favorite Doval Sahab goes on giving lecture about this.

Do you think after killing 200 terrorists we should send a delegation?Delegation should have been sent before killing 200 terrorists to save our own people also.

A man who comes to power calling Congress coward for talking to Pakistan and shaming them claiming to be 56 inches of chest goes to Pakistan to attend a wedding and calls their PM in oath taking ceremony..what should we call him now?

Tell me anything we have changed on the LOC since Modi has come or will change in the next few years.

All this propaganda that Army has a free hand is created by BJP.Do you think Army Brigade HQ called Manmohan singh before giving a reply on LOC?
 

ezsasa

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Modi government is playing to gallery in Pakistan policy and LoC skirmishes. What kind of strategy is this? I am afraid as elections r approaching pakis wil resort to lot of hit and run tactics in LoC to put pressure on bjp government.
People give credibility to pakis by talking about their attacks, the day people stop talking about paki attacks pakis will stop doing these attacks.

If people stop talking about it, media will stop talking about it. If media stops talking about it, pakis will stop doing the attacks.

If they do attack, let IA take care it. Why should others have opinion on it? By others I mean BJP and RW too.
 

Brood Father

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30000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Don't get me wrong.. But this unconfirmed chest thumping by ex serviceman is doing more harm than good
Unless adgpi or ispr acknowledge.. It would fall under the category of unconfirmed report
However if we are to believe that ISPR hide their casualties than we have only one proof of such strong deterrence and that is "absence of attacks like uri and nagrota in near future"
 

pankaj nema

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I wont criticise you coz you are coming from where i was exactly 1 year ago.

Do you think reacting or taking a revenge of killing 4 soldiers is 'Offensive Defense'?

I think offensive defense is to take actions before we are harmed.Your favorite Doval Sahab goes on giving lecture about this.

Do you think after killing 200 terrorists we should send a delegation?Delegation should have been sent before killing 200 terrorists to save our own people also.

A man who comes to power calling Congress coward for talking to Pakistan and shaming them claiming to be 56 inches of chest goes to Pakistan to attend a wedding and calls their PM in oath taking ceremony..what should we call him now?

Tell me anything we have changed on the LOC since Modi has come or will change in the next few years.

All this propaganda that Army has a free hand is created by BJP.Do you think Army Brigade HQ called Manmohan singh before giving a reply on LOC?
Man Mohan SIngh was a TRAITOR

That is why he TIED the hands of the Indian Army during his tenure

Read this Article

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...-for-soldier-deaths+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in
 

pankaj nema

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The Original Article has been removed

This is the web cache that is still available

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...-for-soldier-deaths+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in

Hence I am posting it for those people who still Believe that
Man Mohan SIngh was NOT a traitor
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
‘PMO to blame for soldier deaths’

The commanders who adopted a ‘pro-active stance to deter the Pakistanis usually suffered in their careers’.


MADHAV NALAPAT New Delhi | 10th Aug 2013


Prime Minister Manmohan Singh

Senior commanders in the India-Pakistan battlefield say that the rules of engagement enforced by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh are the cause of the multiplying number of deaths of Indian soldiers at the hands of the Pakistan army. According to them, present Chief of Army Staff General Bikram Singh "follows the PMO's directives in practice while publicly talking about a tough response" to Pakistani provocations, They claim that "cross-border incidents on both the Line of Control and the Line of Actual Control have risen sharply since June 2012" when Gen Singh took over the command of the Army from Gen V.K. Singh. However, a senior officer said that the dilution in response over the past year "is not the (present) chief's fault", and that Gen Bikram Singh had no option as a disciplined soldier than to follow the policy given to him by the political and bureaucratic leadership.

They pointed out that those commanders who adopted a "pro-active stance that would deter the Pakistanis usually suffered in their careers" while the "more cautious ones got promoted". They said that this was in contrast to the Pakistan army, "which always backed the man on the spot, even if he was only a JCO (junior commissioned officer)". Others said that "these days, babus in the Ministry of Defence (MoD) take even tactical decisions best left to the field commanders" and that "interference by the MoD in operational matters has reached the danger level" from the point of view of operational readiness to deal with threats.

These commanders say that Pakistani troops "taunt our forces every day" by saying that it is "Dilli ka hukam" that our soldiers do not respond to provocations from their side. A senior officer claimed that "almost every day, in some sectors, Pakistani troops open up an artillery barrage". He claimed that "the Prime Minister's Office has informally ordered that our boys should not respond to such hostile moves unless higher levels get consulted". In practice, he says, such consultations "almost always get replied to with an order to ignore the firing and the taunts". It has already been reported in these columns that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is regarded with distaste by the men in uniform for his Sunshine Policy towards Islamabad. The PM has been joined by Defence Minister A.K. Antony in being the butt of uncharitable comments related to the PMO-MoD policy of avoiding a robust response to provocative actions from across the border.

These commanders said that "proper rules of engagement" would have resulted in an "immediate and deadly response to the killing of five of our boys by the Pakistani military". But for the informal restrictions on counter-activity, "the Indian Army would have in hours inflicted such damage to the other side that they would have thought twice before launching provocative actions".

They claimed that in those few sectors where local commanders "with spirit were still allowed to function", the Pakistan side was quiet. There was anger at reports that junior officers would be punished for what was in their view "a failure of the higher command to appreciate that force is the best way to ensure calm". Several officers said that "since Kargil, it has become the fashion for higher-ups to blame juniors for their own mistakes". They said that scrutiny of postings would show that "those commanders who inflicted a robust response to provocations were quickly moved out of sensitive commands".

These officers said that the "zigzag pattern of deployment of our troops and the enemy" meant that preventing an ambush in the Poonch sector was "difficult". Therefore, they added, the only way of deterring such action was to ensure "a strong response to any hostile action". According to them, such a course has been informally countermanded by the political leadership, in deference to the desire to chase the chimera of peace with Pakistan, and warned that "unless the Army is given the freedom to act against provocations, more of our soldiers will pay the ultimate price".
 

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Kalki_2018

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I am not an idiot to follow stupid people like you. Indian army knows when and how to retaliate and I trust them. Indian army does not act like a frustrated idiot charging at pakis. Enough with the only I feel for the soldiers families nonsense. My dad served in the army for 25 odd years and fought in 71 war, one of my dad's colleague's son, who I knew very well was killed in kargil and I have 2 classmates who are serving as officers in the army right now including one in kashmir. So take a chill pill and let IA do there job.
 

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I am not an idiot to follow stupid people like you. Indian army knows when and how to retaliate and I trust them. Indian army does not act like a frustrated idiot charging at pakis. Enough with the only I feel for the soldiers families nonsense. My dad served in the army for 25 odd years and fought in 71 war, one of my dad's colleague's son, who I knew very well was killed in kargil and I have 2 classmates who are serving as officers in the army right now including one in kashmir. So take a chill pill and let IA do there job.
I know someone who knows someone who killed someone!!
 

Indian Sniper.001

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Do you think reacting or taking a revenge of killing 4 soldiers is 'Offensive Defense'?

I think offensive defense is to take actions before we are harmed.Your favorite Doval Sahab goes on giving lecture about this.
You have answered the question yourself. Just to add, isn't that why the cleaning drive too is happening in Kashmir. Yes, we should be more proactive rather than reactive. But, if I'm not mistaken, the govt. had already given a go for preemptive and punitive strikes when necessary, searching for the piece of news, will tag you with that.

Do you think after killing 200 terrorists we should send a delegation?Delegation should have been sent before killing 200 terrorists to save our own people also.
As far as I see, it is more of a message sending step. Without enough kills on their side, they wouldn't have been properly motivated to come to the table. Now with the cap on their finances, and with people slowly surrendering, and questioning them, isn't it working?

A man who comes to power calling Congress coward for talking to Pakistan and shaming them claiming to be 56 inches of chest goes to Pakistan to attend a wedding and calls their PM in oath taking ceremony..what should we call him now?
I think I have already answered it. But anyways, I too was not in support of this move, but you know geopolitics. We had to show the world that we have tried to bring in Pakistan, but they aren't mending their ways. Infact, you should have added that point where their investigators were brought in to investigate the Pathankot incident. I really don't have an answer for that, and I consider it a blunder.

Tell me anything we have changed on the LOC since Modi has come or will change in the next few years.

All this propaganda that Army has a free hand is created by BJP.Do you think Army Brigade HQ called Manmohan singh before giving a reply on LOC?
If I am not mistaken, the Army have made a few preemptive fire assaults across the border. Coming to what I think will change in the next few years is the way things pan out, in the sense that Modi has realized that the best way to win is to up the Nationalism, so Army has to do their duty with better success and with lesser casualties, so I expect to see more preemptive and punitive strikes across.

And again, a friend once told me that they were chided for not waiting for instructions from the Ministry and for retaliating. So, not very sure of an actual proper response on LC. Please correct me if wrong.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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You have answered the question yourself. Just to add, isn't that why the cleaning drive too is happening in Kashmir. Yes, we should be more proactive rather than reactive. But, if I'm not mistaken, the govt. had already given a go for preemptive and punitive strikes when necessary, searching for the piece of news, will tag you with that.



As far as I see, it is more of a message sending step. Without enough kills on their side, they wouldn't have been properly motivated to come to the table. Now with the cap on their finances, and with people slowly surrendering, and questioning them, isn't it working?


I think I have already answered it. But anyways, I too was not in support of this move, but you know geopolitics. We had to show the world that we have tried to bring in Pakistan, but they aren't mending their ways. Infact, you should have added that point where their investigators were brought in to investigate the Pathankot incident. I really don't have an answer for that, and I consider it a blunder.


If I am not mistaken, the Army have made a few preemptive fire assaults across the border. Coming to what I think will change in the next few years is the way things pan out, in the sense that Modi has realized that the best way to win is to up the Nationalism, so Army has to do their duty with better success and with lesser casualties, so I expect to see more preemptive and punitive strikes across.

And again, a friend once told me that they were chided for not waiting for instructions from the Ministry and for retaliating. So, not very sure of an actual proper response on LC. Please correct me if wrong.
I am not anti Modi or a congress or aap voter.My next vote is for BJP again but i dont think with the current stratergy anything will change.

Lets hope for the best.
 

Hindustani78

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A recent photo of Indian Army soldiers near the Line of Control in Nowshera sector of Rajouri. The Army carried a tit-for-tat raid across the Line of Control to avenge the killing of Indian soldiers. | Photo Credit: PTI

NEW DELHI, December 26, 2017 14:29 IST
Updated: December 26, 2017 14:44 IST

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...aid-3-pak-soldiers-killed/article22280275.ece

After the raid, there was heavy firing on both sides and intermittent firing was on.
To avenge the killing of four soldiers in a ceasefire violation (CFV) by Pakistan, the Indian Army carried out a local cross-border raid on a temporary post across the Line of Control (LoC) on Monday night and killed three Pakistan soldiers.

“It was a local tactical level action taken by the local commanders. It was a short distance raid about 200-300 metres inside the LoC,” a senior officer said on Monday.

A Major and three soldiers were killed in CFV by the Pakistan Army along the LoC at Rajouri in the Pir Panjal Valley on Saturday. The personnel — Major Moharkar Prafulla Ambadas, Lance Naik Gurmail Singh, Sepoy Gurmeet Singh and Sepoy Pargat Singh — were from 2 Sikh Regiment and posted in Chingus area of Rajouri.




A combo of file pictures of Army Major Moharkar Prafulla Ambadas (L), Lance Naik Gurmail Singh, Lance Naik Kuldeep Singh and Sepoy Pargat Singh who were killed by the Pakistani troops on Saturday. | Photo Credit: PTI

The Poonch Brigade under 25 Division carried out the raid around 6 pm on Sunday. A small team of 4-5 Ghatak commadoes were involved in it. “It was a tit-for-tat action involving selective targeting. Such actions do not last very long,” the officer said.

The targeted post is of 59 Baloch regiment under 2 PoK Brigade of the Pakistan Army. There were at three confirmed casualties and injuries to one. However, intelligence sources suggest there could be more casualties.

After the raid, there was heavy firing on both sides and intermittent firing was on.

An officer said such local level incidents keep happening. “The Indian Army continues to exploit the fleeting opportunities,” he added.


**********

DH News Service, New Delhi, Dec 26 2017, 14:34 IST

The cross-border raid is to take revenge of four Indian Army soldiers killed by the Pakistan Army in Rajouri on Saturday.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/650174/indian-army-crosses-loc-kill.html

Another surgical strike, Indian Army soldiers crossed the Line of Control and killed three Pakistani soldiers belonging to the 12 Division of the Baluch regiment of the Pakistan Army in the early hours of Monday.

A fourth Pakistani soldier was injured in what army sources described as a "local tactical operation."

The cross-border raid is to take revenge of four Indian Army soldiers killed by the Pakistan Army in Rajouri on Saturday.

*************
 
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Indian Sniper.001

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I am not anti Modi or a congress or aap voter.My next vote is for BJP again but i dont think with the current stratergy anything will change.

Lets hope for the best.
Bhai, you very well know I admire your posts and honest and valuable opinions. I'm trying to find meanings in the steps taken, and most of the time I am almost right, thus sticking to it.

Yes, all we can do is hope, even if it's not for us, atleast for the sake of the survival of our country.
 

Doc Mozart

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Check out shatrujeet's fb page. According to it, the raid was carried on by members of ghatak platoon of 2 Sikh and some members of elite SF units. 7 Confirmed Kills, 2 Injured and hospitalised. Happened in Rakhchakri area of rawalkot district, Pakistan. 1 SSG member also killed in indian retaliation at the LOC.
 

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Check out shatrujeet's fb page. According to it, the raid was carried on by members of ghatak platoon of 2 Sikh and some members of elite SF units. 7 Confirmed Kills, 2 Injured and hospitalised. Happened in Rakhchakri area of rawalkot district, Pakistan. 1 SSG member also killed in indian retaliation at the LOC.
Well,the place where this raid took place is far from where 2 SIkh is at.

1 SSG killed is the sniper i guess but some sources say the sniper is Baloch.
 

Doc Mozart

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Well,the place where this raid took place is far from where 2 SIkh is at.

1 SSG killed is the sniper i guess but some sources say the sniper is Baloch.
Yeah don't know where the sniper's from exactly. Shatrujeet says SSG, but this kill is surely a recent one. EDIT :- From the picture available at shatrujeet, he surely seems to be SSG.
 
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