Should there be permanent mechanism for immigration of Indian Muslims and Pakistani/Bangla nonMuslim

Should there be permanent mechanism for immigration of Indian Muslims and Pakistani/Bangla nonMuslim


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LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Frequently we read news about plight of Pakistani (mainly Hindu) refugees in India, about stranded Biharis in Bangladesh or sometimes some Indian Muslim illegally crossing into Pakistan.

Why can't they legally migrate to their country of choice in dignified manner? Why did India and Pakistan stop this process abruptly?

What is wrong if some Indian Muslim likes Pakistan more than India and want to immigrate there or Pakistani non-Muslim wants to embrace Indian citizenship. Why is it considered a taboo? Why the process always has to be violent/ bitter? Pakistan is already a reality. We officially recognize it as a nation. Partition of India is a reality we have officially accepted. If we accept creation Pakistan as a separate nation, population exchange must be considered as inseparable part of the process. And this can not be a one off event but should be a permanent constitutional right.

Pakistan was not created with consent of each and every citizen. Why should Indian identity be forced on someone who considers himself Pakistani, or Bangladeshi identity forced on some Urdu speaker who considers himself Pakistani, or Pakistani identity forced on some Hindu/Sikh/ Buddhist just because his ancestors could not migrate immediately for whatever personal reason? Is this not a gross violation of Human rights?

Especially in case of Pakistani non-Muslims, they have been Indians for thousands of years; Pakistan was not created with their permission. Then how cruel is to ask them to give up their identity against their will. Why should they beg governments and bureaucracy for citizenship? It must be considered their natural right and obligation of government to provide it.

Same for those Muslims who consider themselves descendants of central Asians and Arabs and don't like to be called Indians. Pakistan is created as a new homeland for such people. Whether one likes it or not it is reality and it is their natural right to choose and we must respect their choice instead of being judgmental.

There should be a simple and smooth legal mechanism for immigration Indian Muslims (and Bangladeshis) to Pakistan and Pakistani non-Muslims to India if they choose to do so at any point in future. This could help to avoid a lot of internal conflicts for both the nations.
 

raheel besharam

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Polytheists (mostly hindus) are considered as mushriq (lowest of low) in Islam. They will surely prefer to defeat this mushriq than to settle in some other land. This is the true mentality of salafi sunni muslims anywhere in the world.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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No. And neither should Hindus of other countries be treated differently. India is a secular country.
This has nothing to do with secular or religious. It is about cruelly and arbitrarily taking away someone's nationality/ imposing alien nationality on someone against their will. That is absurd. Religion has to be mentioned because that is the very basis of creation of Pakistan and also to keep the process practical to avoid widespread misuse of the mechanism.
 

Zulfiqar Khan

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Pakistan wasn't made for the sole purpose of religion; if it was - it would've been much larger. So no, we'd have little in common with these Indian Muslims. I've met Indian Muslims abroad and they're culturally different; we don't even associate with each other. If you want Indian Muslims out of your country so bad, you should just make a Muslim country just for Indian Muslims.

People didn't mass migrate out of their free will, they were forced to.
 

India22

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Pakistan wasn't made for the sole purpose of religion; if it was - it would've been much larger. So no, we'd have little in common with these Indian Muslims. I've met Indian Muslims abroad and they're culturally different; we don't even associate with each other. If you want Indian Muslims out of your country so bad, you should just make a Muslim country just for Indian Muslims.

People didn't mass migrate out of their free will, they were forced to.
Pakistan was and got exactly what areas were Muslim majority. The Indian Muslims you see may be they were not Muhajirs or Punjabi. Pakistan and India both were created on basis of religion. Pakistan itself is a diverse country. You dont find similarity with a South Indian Muslim for that precise reason as a South Indian Muslim will not find similarity with Bengali Muslim. Languages are different.
 

India22

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Even B.R. Ambedkar wanted this. Is not it ironic that despite being officially secular, Kashmir owing to religious reasons still burns?
 
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Amr

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You say that create a new country for Indian Muslims, that's how Pakistan was created. Please enlighten me what other reason was there except Jinnah and others saying that Muslims would be persecuted in a Hindu majority nation.
 

Razor

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Frequently we read news about plight of Pakistani (mainly Hindu) refugees in India, about stranded Biharis in Bangladesh or sometimes some Indian Muslim illegally crossing into Pakistan.

Why can't they legally migrate to their country of choice in dignified manner? Why did India and Pakistan stop this process abruptly?

What is wrong if some Indian Muslim likes Pakistan more than India and want to immigrate there or Pakistani non-Muslim wants to embrace Indian citizenship. Why is it considered a taboo? Why the process always has to be violent/ bitter? Pakistan is already a reality. We officially recognize it as a nation. Partition of India is a reality we have officially accepted. If we accept creation Pakistan as a separate nation, population exchange must be considered as inseparable part of the process. And this can not be a one off event but should be a permanent constitutional right.

Pakistan was not created with consent of each and every citizen. Why should Indian identity be forced on someone who considers himself Pakistani, or Bangladeshi identity forced on some Urdu speaker who considers himself Pakistani, or Pakistani identity forced on some Hindu/Sikh/ Buddhist just because his ancestors could not migrate immediately for whatever personal reason? Is this not a gross violation of Human rights?

Especially in case of Pakistani non-Muslims, they have been Indians for thousands of years; Pakistan was not created with their permission. Then how cruel is to ask them to give up their identity against their will. Why should they beg governments and bureaucracy for citizenship? It must be considered their natural right and obligation of government to provide it.

Same for those Muslims who consider themselves descendants of central Asians and Arabs and don't like to be called Indians. Pakistan is created as a new homeland for such people. Whether one likes it or not it is reality and it is their natural right to choose and we must respect their choice instead of being judgmental.

There should be a simple and smooth legal mechanism for immigration Indian Muslims (and Bangladeshis) to Pakistan and Pakistani non-Muslims to India if they choose to do so at any point in future. This could help to avoid a lot of internal conflicts for both the nations.
Do you really think they are going to leave when their fathers didn't leave. And that too to pakstan, a literal shit-hole.
Eventually "hinduism" will absorb almost everything like it has been doing for millenia.
 

LordOfTheUnderworlds

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Do you really think they are going to leave when their fathers didn't leave. And that too to pakstan, a literal shit-hole.
Eventually "hinduism" will absorb almost everything like it has been doing for millenia.
There wish. Who am I to decide. I'm not generalizing for all. But those who want to leave or come they should have right to do it.
 

Razor

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There wish. Who am I to decide. I'm not generalizing for all. But those who want to leave or come they should have right to do it.
You mean those who want to leave can not do so at this time?

I don't think so.
 

Project Dharma

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Hindus in Pakistan had a long time to make up their mind about which side to move but they made the choice to stay there because of reluctance to give up land or whatever other reason. Now the ship has sailed and they need to live with that. Convert to the state religion if their lives are threatened and they are unable to fight. Otherwise immigrate to a Western country. There is too much of a security risk to letting them in as who known how many jihadis will take advantage of the situation and infiltrate.

As for Indian Muslims, there is a large section of them who are loyal to Pakistan and if Pakistan wants to accept them, I'd not be opposed to letting them leave. However, this is not going to happen for the same reasons that apply to Pakistani Hindus.

So status quo is the best option, except maybe for Kashmiri Muslims who should be made to settle in Pakistan by force for they have no loyalty to their current country.
 

alphacentury

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Eventually "hinduism" will absorb almost everything like it has been doing for millenia.
Or will it? We survived so much onslaught. But, I dont know how much longer can we survive secular democracy. :notsure:
Anyway, This is what a globalized/civilized world looks like.

This is what secularism looks like.:bplease:

The faster people understand that all kind of 'isms' are just an upgraded version/extent of abrahamism, the better for us. And no, nothing has changed.

No. And neither should Hindus of other countries be treated differently. India is a secular country.
Hmm.... There is no rome or mecca for dharmics/hindus anywhere in the world except this land. This country will do disservice to its own people, if it doesnt protect the faiths of its own land. :facepalm:
 

cannonfodder

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The opposite is happening. BD musalman is coming into India and working with indian muzzies to convert it to theocratic islamic shithole.

Paki musalman will not accept more indian muhajirs. Incoming refugees have to be thoroughly veted before they can be let in. This is way more complicated than it looks.
 

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meh
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I shouldn't have used religion in thread's title. I was talking about human rights ! :facepalm:
Rights of nations trump the wishes of a few individuals. A lot of people in India probably relate to American culture, does that mean they should get visas and be able to immigrate to America because of that? At the end of the day, most of the world is stuck living in the place where their ancestors decided to put up roots, why should Pakistani Hindus be any different?
 

India22

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Eventually "hinduism" will absorb almost everything like it has been doing for millenia.
Syriac Christians the oldest Christian Community in India who came in 345 CE is not absorbed still, and you talk about integration. Integration with exclusive religions is not possible. Shakas, Hunas their religion was pluralistic like Hinduism, that's why it was possible with integration, but not now.
 

India22

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Rights of nations trump the wishes of a few individuals. A lot of people in India probably relate to American culture, does that mean they should get visas and be able to immigrate to America because of that? At the end of the day, most of the world is stuck living in the place where their ancestors decided to put up roots, why should Pakistani Hindus be any different?
Those Indians dont support US over India. We are all westernized, yet we support India over US. Pakistanis Hindus that's why are different. They became Pakistani from Indian because without plebiscite India was partitioned because of religion.
 

F-14B

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Syriac Christians the oldest Christian Community in India who came in 345 CE is not absorbed still, and you talk about integration. Integration with exclusive religions is not possible. Shakas, Hunas their religion was pluralistic like Hinduism, that's why it was possible with integration, but not now.
The syriac Christians have been influenced by Hinduism and closely follow the bharaminic rituals in their marriage and other social events they even they excommunicate their own for marraing other Christian demonitons Hinduism will slowly absorb them
 

India22

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The syriac Christians have been influenced by Hinduism and closely follow the bharaminic rituals in their marriage and other social events they even they excommunicate their own for marraing other Christian demonitons Hinduism will slowly absorb them
No they are not. Syriac Christians dont use Indian names, names like Josheph, Matthew that they commonly use are not of Indian origin, they dont revere Sanskrit, they dont worship Hindu Gods or follow any Indian faith. What you said was partially true, before Portuguese came. After Portuguese they got separated again.
 
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