Shia - Sunni conflict

Navneet Kundu

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The people who are recommending that we meddle in their affairs
We should meddle in their affairs and shouldn't allow them to interfere in ours. Where's the problem in that? Also 'their affairs' means giving covert assistance to the turmoil in the Middle East. No one here is recommending that we start a campaign facilitating Indian Shias to participate in Middle Eastern movements and advertise it on DoorDarshan. All I am recommending is giving tactical aid to local groups in the Middle East to keep the Abrahamic pot burning. Heaven forbid if Sunnis, Shias, Christians and Jews one day arrive at a conclusion that they should stop fighting within themselves and start working on a pan-Abrahamic campaign, then we'll be in hot soup.


An ancient civilization like Persia reduced to choosing which Arab to follow from a group of people who destroyed their way of life is tragic-comic from a Hindu point of view.
True. Islam has devoured many great indigenous civilizations. Imagine the kind of glory that Egypt bathed in during the Pharaohs, look at the kind of shit-hole it has become now. Look at Yazidis, Kurds, Baloch, Parsis, Armenians.
 

asingh10

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You have to rollback the partition, no two ways about it. I don't know how to do it & may be I'm an idealist but I know one thing - this is fundamentally a battle of civilizations and only one will survive. Either we will get absorbed into a middle eastern caliphate like that ISIS map shows or Akhand Bharat. Partition is an unfinished business, "haans k liya pakistan lad k lenge Hindustan" was their slogan even back then. No such thing as "syncretism" and "co-existance" with an ideology that believes in its supremacy & has a track record of destroying every civilization that it came into contact with. That has no worked anywhere, why are you Hindus so smug in thinking that it'll in India ? Are you special ?

Stop short term bandage fixes, it always comes back and haunts.
 

dhananjay1

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True. Islam has devoured many great indigenous civilizations. Imagine the kind of glory that Egypt bathed in during the Pharaohs, look at the kind of shit-hole it has become now. Look at Yazidis, Kurds, Baloch, Parsis, Armenians.
Egypt was already Christianised by the time Muslims showed up and had lost it's glory days by the time Romans showed up. Civilizations rise and fall with or without Abrahamic infections, but they sure help civilizational demise.
 

Bornubus

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As a short term solution it may have been ok, but I do believe that we have to roll back partition and Islam from subcontinent, otherwise we wlll cease to exist. Islam is a civilizational threat to India :-

ttp://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/british-support-for-pakistan-partition-of-india.74768/page-2#post-1121018

You'll never succeed by ceding land. By ceding in 47, you gave them 2 jihadi bases from where they can launch more attacks on you. All while the Pakistan's within you will continue to grow, like in Malda.

Tommorow they are gonna ask all of Jammu Kashmir too. Riots and terrorist activities have now also spread to M areas of Jammu like Kishtwar, I'm sure you know how the Kashmiris are rapidly moving rapidly in Jammu. Will you "solve it" by giving it away ? There is no end to this. They want all of India, its a part of their end time prophecies.



Not only did Khilafat polarize Muslims for Pakistan movement, many Muslim officers in INA also deserted Bose and even worked against their former comrades to help Britiish at key junctures when Turkey joined the war in favor of Allies during WW2. All because they had to started think along pan-Islamist lines after the Khilafat movement.

The people who are recommending that we meddle in their affairs should learn from story of Ram Raya of Vijaynagara who had foolishly even 'adopted' one of the Sultans (Ibrahim Adil Shah, a Shia btw who joined the confederacy of sultans @ Talikota) as his 'son', not only did his actions polarize & unite Bahamanids, even the Muslim soldiers in Vijaynagara's army switched sides at Talikota :-




Again, I'm not against giving tacit support to Shias for purely selfish interests but you cannot be overt about it lest India becomes a playground for their medieval bullshit & any Shia/Sunni expression of Ummah loyalties should be treated as sedition. Anyone talking of going to Iraq to fight ISIS or raising Nasrullah or Khomeni banners in India should be treated the same way as those going to join ISIS or raising Pak/ISIS flags. If these people want to live in India, they need to curb their affinity for Ummah.
The presumption that had India not been partitioned, the population of muslims in an undivided subcontinent would have been the same as the sum of muslim populations of the three divided nations, is wrong. A majority of Pakistan wasn't Muslim when it was created. Punjab was more Punjabi than Muslim. Sindh was more Sindhi than Muslim. These states became systematically Islamized after the conservative policies of successive administrations. By allowing them to create a separate Muslim nation we allowed them to populate that erstwhile non-Muslim region with Islamists. These same people are trying to hurt India from the outside now.

Their head snake, Jinnah himself was an Ismaili (later converted to Shia), would be an illegal in Pakistan today. Why? that's because Pakistan later declared Ismailis to be non-muslims. Anyway, had India not been partitioned, the population of muslims in the subcontinent wouldn't have been what it is today. So calling it 'good riddance' is like kicking off our own premium real estate for the sake of a few muslim elites. When the partition was done, even the soft spoken Sindhis in Sindh started complaining that an influx of foreign muslims (snakes from Uttar Pradesh aka Mohajirs) was being imposed on them. Sindh today has lost its Sindhi character as a direct consequence of partition. Basically we let a few people who were hostile to Hindus, migrate to a separate country whose geography was relatively larger than the size of the migrating population, and allowed them colonize it through large scale Sunni breading over the decades.

Also note that these elites were all Shias. I thought I'd add that since we are on a Shia-Sunni thread. Many of Pakistan’s leaders were Shias, including one the country’s first governor-generals, three of its first prime ministers, two of its military leaders like general Iskandar Mirza and Yahya Khan, and many other prominent people. It was *made* a Sunni state by conscious foresight.

Also, we lose more than just land. We lose the birthplace of our Hindu roots, that is the Sindhu river and the Sindh valley. That is where we derive the word Hindu from (and the English name 'India' is derived from Indus). Whoever conceptualized the partition clearly did so keeping in mind that all symbols of Hindu cultural pride stayed outside of the new India so that the people lose their sense of identity and pride and source of heritage.

About Bangladesh, well, they took a chunk of land but they are still hopping over fences and migrating to India. 1/3 of Bangladeshi population lives in India now, does that mean that we get to annex 1/3 land of Bangladesh as compensation? No. That land is gone forever. That's the problem. the loss of land is permanent, but the loss of snakes is temporary. Once the new nation is created they still continue to invade and migrate to the parent nation and then they will ask for more. Therefore one should be so elated at the prospect of giving away land. Take notes about how Myanmar has handled it's Rohingya separatism with an iron fist. That's how a nation upholds its self interest. Lets not pat ouerselves on the back for proudly throwing away large swathes of land full of resources. (There's massive oil reserves in Bangladesh and Baluchistan.)

Also, Mansarovar has gone to China, and Amarnath has gone to a hostile state of Kashmir. We have lost control over our 3 most holy sites Ayodhya, Mathura, Kashi. We have lost ALL control over all temples , their revenue and administration in India to the government, unlike the snakes who have their autonomous Wakf board. So please don't sound so happy when you say 'good riddance'. Of course, I don't want the partition to be undone now; Adding more toxic people into our nation is the last thing anyone wants, but please be nuanced with your approach. I take as much pleasure as you do, in heaving a sigh of relief that a lot of snakes were booted out during 1947, but such a statement must always be followed by a disclaimer about the corresponding loss of land and heritage sites, which is not a good thing. Unfortunately we Hindus have no appreciation for history. The partition was as bad to us as the holocaust was to the Jews. The Jews make movies about it, write books about it, and pass on the heritage to their generations. And we Hindus say 'good riddance'. It's good that we rid ourselves of poisonous people but the fact that it came at the cost of our land and heritage is a painful lesson we must not brush off. Look at Israel which has expanded its territory after every war with the Arabs and look at us, giving away concessions despite winning every war.

Undoing partition now might be a bad thing but that doesn't imply by corollary that partitioning the nation back then was a good thing. Let's not throw the baby away with the water.

Tagging @maomao @Srinivas_K @asingh10 for their thoughts on this.
Guys common, how do we suppose to roll back partition ?

Tell me how many Paki's proud of their Hindu ancestors even their own porus and Dahir,disintegration of Pak is another matter but Akhand Bharat is impossible with 1000 million Hindus and 550 million muslims of sub continent, either they have to convert to Hinduism or we to Islam.

Partition was good in the sense that Hindus are majority today even in a shithole like UP Bihar,Hindus are more than 80% and it will remain like this,since Muslim Growth rate has been declining due to education etc.

Tell me one reason what good present day Bangladeshi muslims for india ?
 

Navneet Kundu

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You have to rollback the partition, no two ways about it.
How are we going to handle the addition of so many millions and millions of extra muslims to the country if partition is undone? Let us splinter Pakistan and turn them into satellite states which will act as a buffer. Rewrite their constitution so that Sindh becomes more Sindhi and Punjab becomes Punjabi. There should be no mentioned of state-sponsored Islam. Look at what we have done with Bangladesh over the years. It allows us cross border transit for easy route to our north-east and Myanmar and other ASEAN markets. At the same time we trade with Bangladesh. So, like a honey comb, we have managed to take the honey but keep the honeybees confined to their comb. We get the economic benefits of trading with them, all the while keeping 150 million muslims outside our political ecosystem. We should follow this template with Sindh and Baluchistan. We can reclaim some historical sites but there is no need to reclaim the people. It is the loss of land and resources that pains us, not the loss of muslims.

Guys common, how do we suppose to roll back partition ?
I am not recommending rolling back partition. That's what asingh10 is saying. I disagree with him on that. I am merely saying that we must, at the very least, tell our people about how the land was stolen from us and that it was a bad thing instead of claiming that partition was a good event in its entirety. It's wrong because that narrative doesn't account for the amount of land that we lost or the number of people that were butchered so that a few muslims could throw a tantrum and claim a separate nation. Calling it 'good riddance' without any disclaimer about the losses we had to suffer portrays the loss of our land as a good thing. One must be nuanced by claiming that the loss of snakes was good but the loss of land was bad.

I am again saying that I don't want a roll back of partition, I just want us to learn a lesson from it and tell the right story to our next generations so they don't repeat it. If we had a statesman we could have managed a better deal. At least Baluchistan was willing to be a part of India, we know that for a fact. The Khan of Kalat offered Baluchistan's accession to Nehru but that chutiya said that Baluchistan is too far away and it it is separated by Pakistan in between. That time someone reminded Nehru that even East Pakistan and West Pakistan were separated by Indian territory in between but that didn't stop Pakistan from claiming it. By the time this retarded self-proclaimed 'pandit' could understand his folly, Pakistan army invaded Baluchistan and annexed it.
 
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asingh10

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We should meddle in their affairs and shouldn't allow them to interfere in ours. Where's the problem in that? Also 'their affairs' means giving covert assistance to the turmoil in the Middle East. No one here is recommending that we start a campaign facilitating Indian Shias to participate in Middle Eastern movements and advertise it on DoorDarshan. All I am recommending is giving tactical aid to local groups in the Middle East to keep the Abrahamic pot burning.
Agree with this.


We
Heaven forbid if Sunnis, Shias, Christians and Jews one day arrive at a conclusion that they should stop fighting within themselves and start working on a pan-Abrahamic campaign, then we'll be in hot soup.
And they already have been working on a pan-Abrahamic campaign as far as we are concerned, see the "British created Pakistan" thread :-


ttp://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/british-support-for-pakistan-partition-of-india.74768/page-2#post-1121018

Shias, Sunnis, Ahmadis, Xtians all came together to screw us over in 1947, atleast we of all the people should be discerning enough to see beyond what is apparent on the television screens.
 

asingh10

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How are we going to handle the addition of so many millions and millions of extra muslims to the country if partition is undone? Let us splinter Pakistan and turn them into satellite states which will act as a buffer. Rewrite their constitution so that Sindh becomes more Sindhi and Punjab becomes Punjabi. There should be no mentioned of state-sponsored Islam. Look at what we have done with Bangladesh over the years. It allows us cross border transit for easy route to our north-east and Myanmar and other ASEAN markets. At the same time we trade with Bangladesh. So, like a honey comb, we have managed to take the honey but keep the honeybees confined to their comb. We get the economic benefits of trading with them, all the while keeping 150 million muslims outside our political ecosystem. We should follow this template with Sindh and Baluchistan. We can reclaim some historical sites but there is no need to reclaim the people. It is the loss of land and resources that pains us, not the loss of muslims.
I didn't say we should "add" more Muslims, we should re-paganize them, bring them back to the Hindu fold. Ofcourse we have failed to do that even in India because we keep running in circles (its just the Wahabis, misinterpretation, we shouldn't offend each other etc) instead of telling the truth about Islam and its harmful effects on subcontinent & offering protection to those who leave Islam. Instead, the RSS abandons its own people like Kamlesh Tiwari when they speak out.

Do remember that Pakis also had close to ~25% Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, they spared no time in extinguishing them. Then why are we always on the backfoot, thinking that we can't tame them ? Look at what China is doing in Xinjiang, I'm pretty confident that they'll crush them and amalgamate that province into China completely. Whereas Muslims in India are causing trouble wherever they gain numbers, do tell me what are you gonna do about future demands for Pakistan ? Part away with more land ? It's an eventuality in Kerala, Assam, WB, Jammu, W.UP.

And I know reversal will be a long process, but like you said splintering Pak & defanging their military capabilities may be a good first step. You also need to make sure that there any possibility of Islamist resurgence is squashed promptly. We didn't push this through in Bangladesh, instead the partners we choose (like Mujib) in Bangladesh themselves had an Islamist past. So it was likely that Bangladesh turned out the way it did.

I am not recommending rolling back partition. That's what asingh10 is saying. I disagree with him on that. I am merely saying that we must, at least tell our people about how the land was stolen from us and that it was a bad thing instead of claiming that it was a good event in its entirety is wrong because it portrays the loss of our land as a good thing. One must be nuanced by claiming that the loss of snakes was good but the loss of land was bad. I am again saying that I don't want a roll back, I just want us to learn a lesson from it and tell the right story to our next generations so they don't repeat it.

And what better way to do that by setting an e.g. that such genocides of the order perpetrated under Islam on the subcontinent will have consequences for the beneficiaries of those genocides in the future. Let this be a formidable lesson in history to all the traitors. If you don't do this, there will be more Jinnah's (and even Hindu traitors who abetted him ) who will feel emboldened to repeat it.
 
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Mad Indian

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Yeah partition wasn't good and a loss of Hindus :lol:

This is the things which has been prorogated by RSS punks nowadays,who are high on Akhand Bharat dream.

Let's see what Bharat Mata lost in terms of partition - two tumor in the form of present day pak and BD,with 400 musalman,zero resource and combined GDP of $500 ~ billion.On top of it baccha bazi and terrorism on the scale of Syria and Fallujah,they were so islamized and arabized to be reconverted into Hinduism.


It was not even a motherland of Hindus as well both in term of Hindu population and and religious places.

So plz let Hindus/Sikhs make this country in top 3 and if Muslim,even if in small number consider this country as their own,we should welcome it.A Muslim Gosawek was killed by beef mafia yesterday,there are many like him.We won't allow Shia Sunni sectarian Horseshit in India.
So your defenclse of what I said is just that since RSS supports akhand bharat, it must be a bad idea. Grow a brain and re read what I said again. You have refuted none of what I said. Partition was a net loss for Hindus . your idea of victory is as analogous as, losing your own house to a illegal thug half your size for your fear of confronting him. There is no glory in that it is nothing but loser mentality. Of course, unlike RSS, I just want the lands not the illegal barbaric filth which lives there.


Muzzies who don't want to give up their barbaric ideologies and convert to some other actual religion, preferably dharmic, should not be allowed to live in India . there should be No tolerance for the barbaric ideology in India, however moderate their taqqiyya claim to be.
 

asingh10

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Those who are thinking that we were saved by the Partition are wrong. In competition with a majority non Muslim population (76% about the same as Jews vs non Jews in Israel today), the Islamics would have had to change their growth tactic. They could not grow as fast as they have done with a dedicated Islamic nation (& now they have nukes). All that was required to stem the problem was iron will on part of our leadership. We didn't have it then and we don't have it now. Instead we chose the easier way out by gifting land. And then we did the same in our country, instead of manning up to the challenge, we kept pussyfooting and look at the menace it has become....all over again....

Ceding land is never the solution people. It emboldens the Jihadis.
 

Mad Indian

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@Bornubus stop replying like a chaddiwallah. No one here is for the RSS akhand bharat wankery. Does not mean losing 1/3 of our land to barbaric filth following a arapian pedophile is a victory. Only pathetic Hindus can claim loss of lands to jihadi filth to be a victory:rolleyes:
 
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Mad Indian

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Those who are thinking that we were saved by the Partition are wrong. In competition with a majority non Muslim population (76%), the Islamics would have had to change their growth tactic. They could not grow as fast as they have done with a dedicated Islamic nation (& now they have nukes). All that was required to stem the problem was iron will on part of our leadership. We didn't have it then and we don't have it now. Instead we chose the easier way out by gifting land. And then we did the same in our country, instead of manning up to the challenge, we kept pussyfooting and look at the menace it has become....all over again....

Ceding land is never the solution people. It emboldens the Jihadis.
Exactly what I meant too. So second partition by 2060 and then their pop falls to 10% again , and then will have brainless morons and cowards and shallow cowardly Hindus, like say @FRYCRY who would then advocate in 2116 on why atheism is cool and muzzie filth should be spared as they are only 10% after we have lost West Bengal and parts of UP and Kashmir. Then we will see the muzzies breed like rabbits again and raise to 20% again by 2160. Then what? Third partition, but now we lose more land and call it a win again on how intelligently we avoided a fight and are now limited to our safe houses in MAH, Mp , Karma, TN, Bihar etc? When will this cycle of losing our land to the muzzies stop? Will these people ever grow a spine?
 

asingh10

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So your defenclse of what I said is just that since RSS supports akhand bharat, it must be a bad idea. Grow a brain and re read what I said again. You have refuted none of what I said. Partition was a net loss for Hindus . your idea of victory is as analogous as, losing your own house to a illegal thug half your size for your fear of confronting him. There is no glory in that it is nothing but loser mentality. Of course, unlike RSS, I just want the lands not the illegal barbaric filth which lives there.


Muzzies who don't want to give up their barbaric ideologies and convert to some other actual religion, preferably dharmic, should not be allowed to live in India . there should be No tolerance for the barbaric ideology in India, however moderate their taqqiyya claim to be.
I've no problem swapping all muslim and christian for yazidi, zoroastrian, tao, shinto, animist practitioners. All foreign religions too.

This is not about Hindu chauvinism nor about foreign vs native, its about the inherent violence + extra territorial loyalties that abrahamic religions promote.

We had heathen foreign invaders like Greeks, Scythian, Huns, Ahoms, they all adapted to local civilization.

Ahoms became the greatest defenders of Hinduism.

Greeks adapted to Hinduism and Buddhism :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliodorus_pillar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milinda_Panha

The Huns took up Shaivism, Buddhism.

There is a reason why there is no Hun, Scythian or Greek left in India demanding separate land or Sharia or some crap.
 

A chauhan

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Atheism of non-believers is a bliss for Islamists, the more Indians turn atheist the more chances arises for Islam supporters in the name of secularism/communism.

This is not about Hindu chauvinism nor about foreign vs native, its about the inherent violence + extra territorial loyalties that abrahamic religions promote.
Correctly interpreted !
 

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Exactly what I meant too. So second partition by 2060 and then their pop falls to 10% again , and then will have brainless morons and cowards and shallow cowardly Hindus, like say @FRYCRY who would then advocate in 2116 on why atheism is cool and muzzie filth should be spared as they are only 10% after we have lost West Bengal and parts of UP and Kashmir. Then we will see the muzzies breed like rabbits again and raise to 20% again by 2160. Then what? Third partition, but now we lose more land and call it a win again on how intelligently we avoided a fight and are now limited to our safe houses in MAH, Mp , Karma, TN, Bihar etc? When will this cycle of losing our land to the muzzies stop? Will these people ever grow a spine?
Fuck all religions, but especially that death cult ISLAM. Now you happy?


Atheism of non-believers is a bliss for Islamists, the more Indians turn atheist the more chances arises for Islam supporters in the name of secularism/communism.
Majority of atheists in India are ex hindus and ex muslims.. so don't worry. An ex muslim literally exposes the heck out of Islam. Go checkout some videos on youtube how ex muslims in UK are banging muzzies by exposing them.
 

asingh10

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Exactly what I meant too. So second partition by 2060 and then their pop falls to 10% again , and then will have brainless morons and cowards and shallow cowardly Hindus, like say @FRYCRY who would then advocate in 2116 on why atheism is cool and muzzie filth should be spared as they are only 10% after we have lost West Bengal and parts of UP and Kashmir. Then we will see the muzzies breed like rabbits again and raise to 20% again by 2160. Then what? Third partition, but now we lose more land and call it a win again on how intelligently we avoided a fight and are now limited to our safe houses in MAH, Mp , Karma, TN, Bihar etc? When will this cycle of losing our land to the muzzies stop? Will these people ever grow a spine?
And this logic of Muslim growth rate slowing down is flawed. Muslims have lowest growth rate in Kerala afaik, and even there the TFR gap is 1.1, means they are still chipping away because Hindu growth rate has seen far steeper decline. Not to mention Wahabi gulf money that's pouring into Kerala for conversion of Hindus. Recently 2 Hindus from Kerala were caught in Dubai for joining ISIS. Ishrat Jahan's associate was a Hindu convert from Kerala. I'm not even factoring in the damage Xtians are doing.
 

A chauhan

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Majority of atheists in India are ex hindus and ex muslims.. so don't worry. An ex muslim literally exposes the heck out of Islam. Go checkout some videos on youtube how ex muslims in UK are banging muzzies by exposing them.
A month back a person said something against Prophet Mohammad, Malda Kaand happened. Atheism = Islamism in India. Here people are afraid of even talking against Fatwas forget exposing Islam, Hindus are very weak in religious defense as well as attacks.
 

asingh10

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Atheism of non-believers is a bliss for Islamists, the more Indians turn atheist the more chances arises for Islam supporters in the name of secularism/communism.


Correctly interpreted !
These people are delusion to think that we live in some post-religion world. Check these passages out from the novel 'Submission' by Michelle Houellebecq:-






The smart ass atheists are usually too smart for their own good. Look at what their smartness is unravelling in EU. Understand all the science in the world (I wonder why they never pursued a career in science though if they were so good) but can't read patterns from history, look at ground realities today & infer basic facts about how society works. We can see how Marxist Atheism is faring against Islamists in Kerala and Bengal. All that sophistry, rationale & logic is gonna melt like salt in water when it comes in contact with Islamism.

Remember that tale of the pandit who frowned upon the boatman for not knowing Panini, but whom the boatman pitied for not knowing swimming when the boat was in trouble.
 

Mad Indian

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Fuck all religions, but especially that death cult ISLAM. Now you happy?
You are still a too clever by half and will likely remain so for the future too. As I said, you can chant your athiesm to the Islamic mob which will eventually come for you and you can die a halal death reserved for the atheists by islamist scum instead of dying as a hindu. Your atheist community will save yoru ass from ladi type riots, just like how the Bengali bong is saving the common man's ass in malda by blaming BSF


Don't worry, Hindus would be busy defending their homes instead of bothering to defending your kind when shit hits the fan.
 

A chauhan

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Understand all the science in the world (I wonder why they never pursued a career in science though if they were so good) but can't read patterns from history, look at ground realities today & infer basic facts about how society works. We can see how Marxist Atheism is faring against Islamists in Kerala and Bengal.
True, any form of "correctness" brings inherent dangers with it, "atheism" ,"secularism" and "liberalism" are no different, blind one sided arguments are put to support such correctness, specially by ineligible. As per my own experience such correctness always bring misery.

Your this quote says many things :- "But from the moment they let themselves be contaminated by Western values, they too were doomed." Indians can learn much from it.
 

asingh10

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Your this quote says many things :- "But from the moment they let themselves be contaminated by Western values, they too were doomed." Indians can learn much from it.
The people who usually sing praises of western civilisation have never seen it up and close. Their knowledge about "progressivism" comes from what they saw on MTV and sitcoms. Money is not everything. Look at some stats on broken families, children out of wedlock, old age homes, millions on welfare and the all round degeneracy in west & you'll realize how much deep shit these people are in and where they are headed to.

Reminds me of what Bhagwaan Buddha said about conditions for non-decline of a society :-

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...e-its-family-values.74299/page-3#post-1112659

But we are too smart to heed the advice of our ancestors because we have an Iphone now.
 
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