Shashi Tharoor: Britain owes reparations to India

[ezsasa]

Knowing how britards think, the real butthurt will be when India's GDP crosses UK GDP in 2019. Till then keep doing these low intensity attacks, and enjoy the show.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

True story.

"Winston Churchill, the hallowed British War prime minister who saved Europe from a monster like Hitler”

Let me correct your first sentence. USA saved Europe from the monster that was Hitler.

 

[pmaitra]

Let me correct your first sentence. USA saved Europe from the monster that was Hitler.

Depends upon whom you ask. I would say the USSR contributed the most. USA did contribute, but its contribution is less than that of USSR.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Depends upon whom you ask. I would say the USSR contributed the most. USA did contribute, but its contribution is less than that of USSR.

I would say indian contribution was greater than ussr for the simple fact that Indians won in both fronts for mother England in world war 2 ( and many other wars including ww1)

 

[pmaitra]

I would say indian contribution was greater than ussr for the simple fact that Indians won in both fronts for mother Britain in world war 2 ( and many other wars including ww1)

You made a valid point. It is not only the battles, but also the fact that India sustained the war effort in materiel and supplies.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

You made a valid point. It is not only the battles, but also the fact that India sustained the war effort in materiel and supplies.

75 percent of the British navy was decimated by German air strikes . British india army In ww2 is the largest "volunteer army" in history. Interesting new term for colonial army. British were humiliated by the Germans hiding in the tunnels in fear of their lives. Reinforcements and support from their indian colony was their saving grace. There was a point when many parts of London was destroyed and USA had not officially entered the war. A real dark and desperate period in British history.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

75 percent of the British navy was decimated by German air strikes . British india army In ww2 is the largest "volunteer army" in history. Interesting new term for colonial army. British were humiliated by the Germans hiding in the tunnels in fear of their lives. Reinforcements and support from their indian colony was their saving grace. There was a point when many parts of London was destroyed and USA had not officially entered the war. A real dark and desperate period in British history.

I can't recall the name but I saw it in one of the documentaries on WW2. Indian soldiers gained a lot of self-confidence watching their white masters hide in fear, while they fought gallantly. All the racial superiority BS was put to rest during this war, at least for the soldiers.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

75 percent of the British navy was decimated by German air strikes . British india army In ww2 is the largest "volunteer army" in history. Interesting new term for colonial army. British were humiliated by the Germans hiding in the tunnels in fear of their lives. Reinforcements and support from their indian colony was their saving grace. There was a point when many parts of London was destroyed and USA had not officially entered the war. A real dark and desperate period in British history.

I can't recall the name but I saw it in one of the documentaries on WW2. Indian soldiers gained a lot of self-confidence watching their white masters hide in fear, while they fought gallantly. All the racial superiority BS was put to rest during this war, at least for the soldiers.

 

[Bhadra]

I'm not making any rai ka pahaad.

No , I did say that ... there is a difference between "tial ka Taarh" and "rai ka pahad" in terms of magnitude of saying.

If it was fad in his generation then it would have created a big scene in the whole country and news papers would be highlighting every now and then at that time.Did that happened?No,'coz the left-communists who were holding the academic-political circles didn't brought to the common man.

And Tharoor is an opportunist.

And please don't teach me about communists.During fight against Nizams communists laid down their life but to only Hyderabad to not join India.This is only one example.Communists always fight the ruler doesn't matter whether the ruler or ruling party is right or wrong,even they extend the fight to arms struggle like CPI(ML),maoists,etc. And I come from a land where we kicked these maoists,PWG to their rightful places.

My point is Tharoor brought this up in UK Supreme court in late 2014 but why almost the same speech in Oxford is being highlighted by the Mainstream Media now?

Do give the credit where it lies ... and I am pretty sure you have not even tried to read the books I mentioned ...

Communists essentially are disillusioned by theory of Class Struggle and not Caste / Religious / National struggle ... though USSR did call their II world war as great patriotic war. Communist in India even worked against their class enemy Nehru in 1962 war with China when Bose acted as their information portal. .. but after that kept helping India to govern against their bigger Class enemies whom they called fundamentalists except the Muslim Fundamentalist .... There is where they miserably failed ...

In Hydrabad, the first step was to get rid of Nizam .. then only could Hydrabad join India ... Is not it ??

 

[Bhadra]

The best possible pay back which the British could do :

# Create duplicate India Office library or archives in India or make open all records thereof for public on searchable internet ...

# return all languages manuscripts such as Sanskrit, Pali, Bengali, Assamese, Tamil, Telagu, etc and all religious manuscripts they had taken and plundered from India .. they can keep copies..

# Symbolically return Kohinoor to India ....

# Return historical and religious artefacts to India as much as they can trace...

 

[blueblood]

I like it. We can make UK our 31st state

UK is well on it's way to become the 7th state of Pakistan. Why ruin a good thing?

The more Mirpuris the merrier.

 

[apple]

Does British Rail get royalties for every train ticket bought in India?

75 percent of the British navy was decimated by German air strikes . British india army In ww2 is the largest "volunteer army" in history. Interesting new term for colonial army. British were humiliated by the Germans hiding in the tunnels in fear of their lives. Reinforcements and support from their indian colony was their saving grace. There was a point when many parts of London was destroyed and USA had not officially entered the war. A real dark and desperate period in British history.

The British were humiliated in WW2? Read a book.

75% of the Royal Navy... read a book.

1% of the RN was sunk by the Luftwaffe in WW2. I am making this number up, like you. But, I am far, far closer to the truth that you are. The Luftwaffe, as far as I remember, never sunk a RN Capital ship. The Germans with U boats, mines and German torpedo boats sank huge amount of allied merchant shipping. But, navy boats... 75 % you and that Maitra looser being moderators are a perfect example of the problems of this website.

I can't recall the name but I saw it in one of the documentaries on WW2. Indian soldiers gained a lot of self-confidence watching their white masters hide in fear, while they fought gallantly. All the racial superiority BS was put to rest during this war, at least for the soldiers.

I am from Australia. Australia made up 18% of the soldiers in Malaysia in WW2. The majority of soldiers there then were Indian. Australians made up 80% of the battle casaulities in Malaysia. The Gurkhas ran, the Sikhs were cowards, gave up there duty, and betrayed. The rest of the "Indians"...

 

[jackprince]

@apple actually has fallen from the tree. You are basically a supreme class idiot - hopefully not a prime example of the Aussies, although the extreme weather of Finland might have frozen your brain, as the example of jouni goes.

Does British Rail get royalties for every train ticket bought in India?

Moron, read history first, learn the economics and history of railway in India, then comment.

The British were humiliated in WW2? Read a book.

Yes, they were humiliated at every front, and if Japs' attack on Pearl Harbour did not force US and its massive, untouched industrial workforce to plunge into WW2, Brits would have starved in their tiny island. It is the US involvement that saved the BRits, and at the end of WW2 the so called Empire was too weak to keep it intact and had become a yYes Sir' majordomo of USA.

75% of the Royal Navy... read a book.


1% of the RN was sunk by the Luftwaffe in WW2. I am making this number up, like you. But, I am far, far closer to the truth that you are. The Luftwaffe, as far as I remember, never sunk a RN Capital ship. The Germans with U boats, mines and German torpedo boats sank huge amount of allied merchant shipping. But, navy boats... 75 % you and that Maitra looser being moderators are a perfect example of the problems of this website.

http://www.naval-history.net/WW2aBritishLosses01BB.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Royal_Navy_losses_in_World_War_II

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Royal_Navy#Second_World_War

Apart from a few ships that Brits started with in WW2, including majority of Battleships, the RN received a huge blow and would have been incapable of going on except USA's help. The liberty class ships were RN's savious.

I am from Australia. Australia made up 18% of the soldiers in Malaysia in WW2. The majority of soldiers there then were Indian. Australians made up 80% of the battle casaulities in Malaysia. The Gurkhas ran, the Sikhs were cowards, gave up there duty, and betrayed. The rest of the "Indians"...

Yeah, Gurkhas ran, Sikhs were cowards...yadda yadda yadda.....

In the history of Gurkhas for over 200 years no one has ever said that Gurkhas ran from their enemy. This two words singularly is what sums up your intellectual integrity. Btw, you really need to read up yourself :


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Army_during_World_War_II#Malaya_and_Singapore

Following the Japanese invasion on 8 December 1941, the 8th Division and its attached Indian Army units was assigned responsibility for the defence of Johore in the south of Malaya.[92] As a result, it did not see action until mid-January 1942 when Japanese spearheads first reached the state, having pushed back the British and Indian units defending the northern parts of the peninsula. By this time, the division's two brigades had been split up, with the 22nd having been deployed around Mersing and Endau on the east coast and the 27th in the west.[93] The division's first engagement came on the west coast around Muar on 14 January, where the Japanese Twenty-Fifth Army was able to outflank the Commonwealth positions due to Bennett misdeploying the forces under his command so that the weak Indian 45th Brigade was assigned the crucial coastal sector and the stronger Australian brigades were deployed in less threatened areas. While the Commonwealth forces in Johore achieved a number of local tactical victories, most notably around Gemas, Bakri and Jemaluang,[94] they were unable to do more than slow the Japanese advance and suffered heavy casualties in doing so. After being outmanoeuvred by the Japanese, the remaining Commonwealth units withdrew to Singapore on the night of 30–31 January

Now, how did Aussies made up of 80% of casualties, when they are numbered so few and were placed in less risky places and later withdrew to Singapore and then surrendered.

After further fighting in which the Commonwealth forces were pushed into a narrow perimeter around the urban area of Singapore, Percival surrendered his forces on 15 February. Although some Australians were able to escape, following the capitulation 14,972 Australians were taken prisoner.[99] Bennett was among those that managed to get out, having left the island the night before the surrender via sampan after handing over command of his division to Brigadier Cecil Callaghan. He later justified his actions saying that he had gained an understanding of how to defeat the Japanese and needed to return to Australia to pass his knowledge on, but two post-war inquiries found that he was unjustified in leaving his command.[100] The loss of almost a quarter of Australia's overseas soldiers and the failure of the Singapore strategy that had permitted it to accept the sending of the AIF to aid Britain, stunned the country.[101]

^^^ That's the gallantry of Aussies in Battle of Malaya and Singapore. The General Benett was a Aussie - the prime example of Aussie intelligence and bravery.

You might have known, had you studied that all the surrendering were done by the white officers, as no Indian was in the command in any of the battle. The planning of battle and later surrendering, all were done by the Brits or their White-counterparts. The Indian National Army, recruited from already surrendered POWs, and no Indian soldier who were not taken POW, ever defected to INA.

But, then to accept the above points, and even learing of them requires intellectual honesty and integrity, which :no wonder: you sorely lack.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

@apple actually has fallen from the tree. You are basically an supreme class idiot - hopefully not a prime example of the Aussies, although the extreme weather of Finland might have frozen your brain, as the example of jouni goes.



Moron, read history first, learn the economics and history of railway in India, then comment.



Yes, they were humiliated at every front, and if Japs' attack on Pearl Harbour did not force US and its massive, untouched industrial workforce to plunge into WW2, Brits would have starved in their tiny island. It is the US involvement that saved the BRits, and at the end of WW2 the so called Empire was too weak to keep it intact and had become a yYes Sir' majordomo of USA.


http://www.naval-history.net/WW2aBritishLosses01BB.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Royal_Navy_losses_in_World_War_II

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Royal_Navy#Second_World_War

Apart from a few ships that Brits started with in WW2, including majority of Battleships, the RN received a huge blow and would have been incapable of going on except USA's help. The liberty class ships were RN's savious.



Yeah, Gurkhas ran, Sikhs were cowards...yadda yadda yadda.....

In the history of Gurkhas for over 200 years no one has ever said that Gurkhas ran from their enemy. This two words singularly is what sums up your intellectual integrity. Btw, you really need to read up yourself :


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Army_during_World_War_II#Malaya_and_Singapore



Now, how did Aussies made up of 80% of casualties, when they are numbered so few and were placed in less risky places and later withdrew to Singapore and then surrendered.




^^^ That's the gallantry of Aussies in Battle of Malaya and Singapore. The General Benett was a Aussie - the prime example of Aussie intelligence and bravery.

You might have known, had you studied that all the surrendering were done by the white officers, as no Indian was in the command in any of the battle. The planning of battle and later surrendering, all were done by the Brits or their White-counterparts. The Indian National Army, recruited from already surrendered POWs, and no Indian soldier who were not taken POW, ever defected to INA.

But, then to accept the above points, and even learing of them requires intellectual honesty and integrity, which :no wonder: you sorely lack.

It's amazing how stupid and dishonest Aussies and Brits have become. Butt-hurt they are!!

 

[OneGrimPilgrim]

this is how Gurkhas 'ran away' from some battles in history (ie, after doing their job):

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/index.cgi?search=1&tag=Gurkha

also, some weeks back had come across an article i think on a merchant navy/navy veterans website, where it was given in gloomy details how Britain (and its navy & merchant marine; plus, Canada) were driven to desperation from the counter-naval blockade by the kriegsmarine & the continuous attacks of the 'wolf packs', esp. during the initial WW2 years. can't locate the page now.

 

[anupamsurey]

I was jumping with joy that a leader from Congress Party has balls of steel to say the truth confidently and that to international audience. It delivery was extraordinary and some of his statements were powerful and impressive.
Seemed like in a Congress leader's body ..a BJP soul has entered OR you can say the hidden Indian patriots suddenly burst like a volcano. The speech was probably the best I heard from a Congress leader after the passing away of our lady of steel, Mrs. Indira Gandhi. Shashi Tharoor speech was great and even PM Modi
could not stop his praise for him.
Mr. Modi probably felt Mr Tharoor was saying his "MAN KI BAAT".

Before his stint in Congress, he was in service of UN, this is why, he is so good with all those sweet tongue dialogues. he was a good in UN, but it was a shock to me when he decided to join CONgress.

 

[CrYsIs]

• That speech was a part of debate on whether British rule was beneficial for their colonies.

• The speakers were from various former colonies, Tharoor was one, someone from Jamaica and so on.

• The final outcome was that the arguments put forth by from former colonies (including that of Tharoor) that British rule was not beneficial to their colonies won the debate.

• It was a empathic win too, voted 156 in favour of former colonies v/s 89 for the Britishers.

But hey, being a self loathing ignoramus troll is much easier, especially online. Carry on.

I rather be a self loathing ignoramus troll than be an arrogant blind hyper nationalist.

I will tell you why he has no right to speak about British rule in India.

When British were ruling India,they created an elite class of Indians who were basically Indian in appearance but British by heart.When the British left India,the whites were instantly replaced by these brown sahibs who led the foundation of India's ruination.

The MP and his party are a part of that very elite class and him speaking at oxford about the ill effects of colonialism creates a very pot kettle black moment.

 

[thethinker]

I rather be a self loathing ignoramus troll than be an arrogant blind hyper nationalist.

I will tell you why he has no right to speak about British rule in India.

When British were ruling India,they created an elite class of Indians who were basically Indian in appearance but British by heart.When the British left India,the whites were instantly replaced by these brown sahibs who led the foundation of India's ruination.

The MP and his party are a part of that very elite class and him speaking at oxford about the ill effects of colonialism creates a very pot kettle black moment.

At least know the context before going all Amartya Sen here as well.

His speech along with others was a collective argument regarding British rule's impact on former colonies. This was not about moral right he has or not have as an individual or the party he belongs to but a contested debate where he was asked to deliver his views which he did quite eloquently.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

@apple

I am not going to defend my numbers I will stand by my claims.

The facts are British navy was neutralised in ww2 not many naval battles in the Pacific or in the European theatre.

USA played a leading role in saving Europe.

3-5 million Indian origin soldiers took part in ww2 greater than the population of all of Australia at the time Even "cowardly sikhs" were called upon to help mother England.
Cowardly Indian casualty is estimated to be 2.5 million.

British were not humiliated living in the tunnels and many parts of London were not destroyed and churchill's speeches saved Europe these were just errors in my post.

 

[CrYsIs]

You make it sound like we deserved the occupation.Dude look at the size and diversity of India,you can't compare it with Philippines and Indonesia.We have come a long way since 1947 .Tharoor has made some really good points.Britain at least need to formally apologize for its actions if not providing reparations.

No,India did not deserve the occupation.I am not defending the colonial rule.

But you have to look at history objectively from the context of that period and not from a polarising point of view.

British rule was neither good nor bad for India.British plundered the country black and blue but at the same time India owes it's existence to them.A large parts of India are part of the Indian union because of the British rule.

British did a lot of things in India for their own self interest but we ended up reaping the benefits.

Had UK not colonized us,we would have been surely colonized by even worse powers like Russia,Japan,Spain or Portugal.

Russia and Japan would have simply liquidated the population even at the sight of a simple protest,Ask the people living in andamans about what was the life under the Japanese rule.The later two would have imposed inquisition on us and would have eradicated India's ancient culture and things like Vedas,upanishads would have been lost to history.

Even if India had not been colonized,we would have been left to the perils of the Mughals,who would have ensured India's transformation to an Afghanistan type country.

Despite the partition,the British ensured smooth transition of power.In the Independence act of 1947,the kingdoms were left with the choice of joining either India or Pakistan,if suppose there had been a provision for third options like remaining independent,then India would not have been able to integrate into a single union that it is today. The kingdoms would have declared independence and would have gone directly to the UN who in turn would have legitimized their claims.