Saudi-Qatar Rift

pmaitra

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Sir,i feel usa is behind all this to start some sort of a proxy war against IRAN.

What do you think??
You think so? USA against Iran is just along the decades long script. Many people are speculating that Iran and US are extending the olive branch at each other. It won't be easy to start a proxy war in Iran. There is no US Embassy there, so you won't see Cookie Distributor Pastaman doing her antics. Of course, Iran has a Sunni minority. On the other hand, the Shia minority in Saudi Arabia live in the oil rich regions. That is a real threat. With Turkish troops in Qatar for "exercises," I think everyone is putting paw in the pie, ready to pounce if feasible, or walk away unscathed otherwise.
 

Flame Thrower

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Many consequences are possible, such an intra-Bedouin power struggle.

Solomon could end up as solo munda.
These at best will limit to KSA....

IMO, if both princes start fighting... there might be lot of royal and diplomat deaths... but it hardly affects KSA and world relationship....

Unless new prince goes out of the box and banishess all the stupid policies...

If someone wants to advocate the above statement, I'd like to remind the readers that this is only possible if one of the prince is under the influence of America, CIA, etc etc....

Someone in the forum even advocated that CIA or US deepstate has influence(honey trapped king and known all secrets) over one of the Saudi prince or king......

Too many threads with too many loose ends pointing to different directions.
 

Razor

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What are the consequences of this act...

Layman terms please...
The saudi kingdom was formed with the help of Brits and americans who wanted to control the oil rich region. Hence they (anglos) helped the sauds and the wahhabs defeat the other tribes and the ottomon vestiges.

Now the al-saud family has become gigantic with an estimated 6000+ princes, and all the princes would love a piece of the pie.
The family has a horizontal (brother-to-brother) succession system, which means that in spite of being almost 4 generations since founding, it is still the sons of the founder of the kingdom who are ruling the kingdom (notice all saudi kings are old AF)
Additionally some of the princes are showing movements to Russia and secretly even anti-establishment (aka anti-USA) stance, never acceptable.

Enter Md bin Salman, son of current King Salman ... bin al-Saud. He is seen as having vast authority, and considered authoritarian enough up to US standards. He has now been made crown prince, which means he will be king next, and not the brother of salman... bin al-Saud as expected by tradition. This is seen as a consolidating move, though it could have backlash.

All this seems preparation for war against Iran, which seems to be near. Ideally it should have happened earleir, but USA got hit some russian problems in Syria.
 
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Kshatriya87

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In the midst of all this there is news that in KSA, the horizontal succession line, of sons of the first ruler, Saood, has been replaced by vertical succession plan starting from son of salman , the current king.

Westerners had been predicting the this situation would lead to splits in the ruling al-Saud family.

@pmaitra @Kshatriya87 @Project Dharma @aditya10r @Krusty @brahmos etc etc
Interesting. What do you think are possible outcomes?
 

Params7

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It really does seem the Saudis want to rid themselves of the jihadism and salafism. The move to blame Qatar after Trump's visit for harboring terrorists, along with Trump himself now vouching for the King Salman in his rallies in US seems to tell me that. ISIS is done for. They are over. Russia picked off Baghdadi and US got his second in command shortly after.

I say good for KSA. This is good to see. However a war between them and Iran will be devastating for the region and could easily escalate to a more global conflict and frankly I don't think this is what either country wants. Now if only the Shia Muslims could rid themselves of their extremist elements (Hezbollah, Hamas, etc) and stop brainwashing the Palestinians - we could make headway towards relatively significant era of peace in the Mid-East.
 

Kshatriya87

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Qatar Responds To Demands From Saudi Arabia, Allies After Deadline Extended

KUWAIT CITY, KUWAIT:
HIGHLIGHTS
  1. Saudi Arabia, allies gave Qatar 48 more hours to address their grievances
  2. On June 5 they announced that they were severing ties with Qatar
  3. They accused Qatar of supporting extremism and of being too close to Iran


Qatar on Monday responded to a list of demands from Saudi Arabia and its allies after they agreed to give a defiant Doha another 48 hours to address their grievances. Details of the response were not immediately available, but a Gulf official told AFP that Qatari Foreign Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al-Thani had delivered it during a short visit to Kuwait, which is acting as a mediator in the crisis.

 

Kshatriya87

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Qatar says Arab nations acting in ‘disorganized manner’ amid crisis
AP
PublishedJul 20, 2017, 3:18 pm IST
UpdatedJul 20, 2017, 3:31 pm IST

Dubai: A government official in Qatar said Wednesday that the four Arab countries isolating the tiny Gulf nation have acted dangerously and in a "disorganized manner" after apparently changing their demands.

Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Bahrain said Tuesday that Qatar should commit to six principles on combatting terrorism and negotiate a plan to implement them. The four countries had initially made 13 sweeping demands, including shuttering the Arabic news network Al-Jazeera, which Qatar dismissed as an infringement on its sovereignty.

Sheikh Saif Al Thani, director of Qatar's government communications office, said the four countries have "regularly issued conflicting statements."

He said there has been no official communication made to Qatar directly or via the United States or Kuwait, which have tried to mediate the crisis.

"These latest comments are another example of the dangerous and disorganized manner in which the illegal blockade has been conducted," he said in an emailed response to questions from The Associated Press.

"At first there were no demands, but following pressure from mediating countries, the blockaders leaked a list of demands that was quickly deemed neither reasonable nor actionable," he added.

The apparently new list of six demands includes commitments to combatting extremism and terrorism, preventing financing and safe havens for radical groups, and suspending all acts of provocation and speeches inciting hatred or violence.

Qatar denies it has ever sponsored or supported terror groups and says the accusations are politically motivated.

Not on this list are the more specific demands from the original 13 points that Qatar close down Al-Jazeera, curb ties with Iran, kick out troops from NATO member Turkey, which has a base in Qatar, expel wanted Islamists and pay reparations for damages allegedly caused by its policies.

The four countries accuse Qatar of supporting groups like the Muslim Brotherhood, and say Qatar has given citizenship to wanted Brotherhood members and other Islamists.

The small Gulf country's foreign policy stances have at times sharply contradicted Saudi and Emirati policy in the Middle East. Qatar has backed Islamist opposition groups across the region, which Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Egypt deem a threat.
 

Kshatriya87

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Arabs urge Qatar to accept 6 principles to combat extremism
APUpdated July 19, 2017

Four Arab nations that cut ties with Qatar urged the tiny Gulf nation on Tuesday to commit to six principles on combating extremism and terrorism, and to negotiate a plan with specific measures for implementing the principles in a step that could pave the way for early resolution of the crisis.

Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Egypt and Bahrain broke diplomatic relations with Qatar in early June, alleging that the state supports terrorist and extremist groups ─ a charge that Qatar has rejected. They initially made 13 demands, which were also dismissed by Qatar.

Saudi Arabia's United Nations (UN) Ambassador Abdallah Al-Mouallimi, in a briefing for a group of UN correspondents, said that the four nations are now committed to the six principles agreed to by their foreign ministers at a meeting in Cairo on July 5. The nations hope that Qatar will support them as well.

The principles include commitments to combat extremism and terrorism, prevent financing and safe havens for such groups, and suspend all acts of provocation and speeches that incite hatred or violence.

Al-Mouallimi said the four-nation quartet thinks it “should be easy for the Qataris to accept” the six principles.

He stressed that implementation and monitoring must be “essential components,” and “there will be no compromise when it comes to principles.”

However, he said that both sides can talk about details of “the tactics” and “the tools” to implement the principles “and that's where we can have discussion and compromise.”

The Saudi ambassador explained that the initial 13 points included some principles and some tools to achieve compliance.

Mixed in the 13 points were what Western nations might see as fair demands, such as cracking down on support for extremists and curbing ties with Iran, as well as tougher-to-swallow calls to shut down the Al-Jazeera television network, one of Qatar's best-known brands and kick out troops from Nato member Turkey, which has a base in Qatar.

Al-Mouallimi stressed that it is important to stop incitement of violence, but he said closing Al-Jazeera might not be necessary.

“If the only way to achieve that is by closing down Al-Jazeera, fine,” he said. “If we can achieve that without closing down Al-Jazeera, that's also fine. The important thing is the objective and the principle involved.”

UAE Minister of State for International Cooperation Reem Al Hashimy said all the countries involved have strong relations with the United States (US) “and we believe that the Americans have a very constructive and a very important role to play in hopefully creating a peaceful resolution to this current crisis.”

US President Donald Trump has sided strongly with Saudi Arabia and the UAE in the dispute, publicly backing their contention that Qatar is a supporter of militant groups and a destabilising force in the Middle East.

US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson recently concluded several days of shuttle diplomacy and sealed a deal to intensify Qatar's counter-terrorism efforts.

The memorandum of understanding (MoU) signed by the US and Qatar lays out steps the Arab nation can take to bolster its fight against terrorism and address shortfalls in policing terrorism funding.

Al Hashimy called the MoU “an excellent step.”

“We'd like to see more of that,” she said. “We'd like to see stronger measures taken and stronger commitment made to address that.”

Al Hashimy said “at this stage the ball is in Qatar's court.”

“We're looking for a serious change in behaviour, serious measures,” she said. “No more talk.”

Al Hashimy, however said that Qatar has further escalated the situation by encouraging Turkey's military presence.

“We do not want to see a military escalation of any kind,” she said. “We hope to be able to resolve this internally and among ourselves with the assistance of strong mediation, whether it's from the US or the Kuwaitis.”

Al-Mouallimi too stressed that Qatar's future lies with its neighbours not with “faraway places,” a clear reference to Turkey and Iran that are supporting Doha.

“Our Turkish brothers need to recognise that the era of covert and to some extent unwanted intervention in the Arab world has long gone,” he said.

“If Turkey wants to play a constructive role they are welcome to do so, but trying to [intervene] through military bases or military intervention would not be productive, and would not fare well for Turkey's reputation in the Arab world.”

Diplomats from the four countries who attended the briefing said there have been discussions about possible next steps.

UAE Ambassador Lana Nusseibeh said that “if Qatar is unwilling to accept core principles around what defines terrorism or extremism in our region, it will be very difficult” for it to remain in the Gulf Cooperation Council with Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Bahrain.

“So it may be a parting of ways for a little while in order to work things out,” she said.

Al-Mouallimi said the quartet briefed the 10 elected Security Council members Tuesday and hopes to meet the permanent members as well.

While there are no plans to take the dispute to the UN's most powerful body, Al-Mouallimi said that “if we develop the conviction that that is a necessary move forward, then we will do so.”
 

IndianHawk

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Is this entire drama has any semblance of realty ??

Saudis don't have the guts to invade Qatar as USA won't allow also Turkey and Iran will take serious offense.

This whole sermon on terrorism by Saudi wahabi has no credibility. Nobody is buying their propaganda.

So why these empty farts all to some how jack up oil prices by creating artificial turmoil.

Looks like Saudi have given up on beating shale output so now they will focus on keep middle East burning by themselves so that others can't produce more oil and Saudi could wrest their market.

Also saudi economy is going down the drain if prince has to keep the crown it needs real enemies so that scared Saudi people stand behind the monarch for protection.
 

ezsasa

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when two cats are fighting, hopefully somebody is trying to get the piece of bread for us..
====
Al-Arabiya Reports: #Qatar involved in financing terrorists in #India

 

Kshatriya87

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when two cats are fighting, hopefully somebody is trying to get the piece of bread for us..
====
Al-Arabiya Reports: #Qatar involved in financing terrorists in #India

Al-Arabiya forgot that Saudis too are involved in financing terrorists, mosques, madarsas, extremists, reporters etc.
 

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