Saudi analyst claim Saudis have nuclear weapon

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
Erdogan is constantly criticizing us policy these days. Saudi have showed their displeasure with USA publically on more than one occasion. It is clear that USA is at cross-purposes to saudi when it bombs isis.
 

Dark Sorrow

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
4,988
Likes
9,931
Does india have proxies? Which ones.

How will india fight if war knocks.

Eventually everybody is on its own.
India also has proxies. Instead of big organization we have invested in individual from whom we benefit. Only thing you need to win wars is money. Why you want to develop proxies when you can just buy them.

Remember one thing : Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
26,920
Likes
98,472
Country flag
ANALYSIS

NATO is getting worried about a Turkish confrontation with Russia in Syria. Russian President Vladimir Putin is obviously trying to split the alliance by goading Turkey into a conflict over a Kurdish stronghold along the Turkish-Syrian border. NATO would be presented with a choice between supporting a member state or a war with Russia. Not supporting Turkey in such a scenario would be the end of the alliance, a day Mr. Putin dreams about. A war with Russia is not an option.
“The armed forces of the two states are both active in fierce fighting on the Turkish-Syrian border, in some cases just a few kilometers from each other,” one NATO official says, according to Spiegel.

Germany is especially concerned about the rising tension between Moscow and Ankara. “That would likely be tantamount to doing Russia a favor,” says one Chancellery official.

NATO’s response depends on whether or not Turkey is seen as the aggressor. “NATO cannot allow itself to be pulled into a military escalation with Russia as a result of the recent tensions between Russia and Turkey,” says Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn.

Again Spiegel reports, Should Turkey be responsible for escalation, say officials in both Berlin and Brussels, Ankara would not be able to invoke the NATO treaty. Article 4 of the alliance’s founding treaty grants member states the right to demand consultations “whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened.” Turkey has already invoked this article once in the Syrian conflict. The result was the stationing of German Patriot missiles on the Syrian border in eastern Turkey.

The decisive article, however, is Article 5, which guarantees that an “armed attack against one or more of (the alliance members) in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all.” But Foreign Minister Asselborn notes that “the guarantee is only valid when a member state is clearly attacked.”

“We are not going to pay the price for a war started by the Turks,” says a German diplomat.

“Were the Russians to carry out a retaliatory strike against Turkey, we would have a problem,” says a NATO official. In such a case, Turkey could very well invoke Article 5. Were the North Atlantic Council to fail to achieve unanimity, Mr. Putin would once again have split the West, the official says.

It is a given that the diplomatic channels are burning over the possibility of such a conflict. I would hope that President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry’s self-acknowledged superior diplomacy will win the day and this disaster of a scenario will not materialize.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/21/l-todd-wood-nato-getting-scared/
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
India also has proxies. Instead of big organization we have invested in individual from whom we benefit. Only thing you need to win wars is money. Why you want to develop proxies when you can just buy them.

Remember one thing : Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.
India has a habit of sleeping until it is too late. Luckily this time the resource base is quite large so it is not easy for anybody to challenge India. However be certain that India will take losses if an actual war starts. It will take time for India to stand up and confront.

We need far more soldiers than we have now with much better equipment than we have now.
 

warrior monk

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
650
Likes
1,114
No, Saudi doesn't have a Pakistan nuke either. She is under the protection of American nuclear umbrella and American conventional forces, both are powerful far beyond anything that Pakistan can give. No one will give up 7000 warheads for 1 nuclear weapon.
Nobody knows whose warheads are there even if they are actually present , all this may be Saudi false bravado.
The point is it is unlikely that US has Saudi under nuclear umbrella and it doesn't matter how many warheads US has .
First Saudis don't require large number of warheads as people in their neighborhood as not exactly nuclear powers except Israel .

Presence of US warheads will have to under a program like NATO nuclear sharing agreement ,Saudis don't want to be seen signing such agreements with US (The great Satan) as it will not bode well with its wahabi ideology and the larger Sunni world while Pakistani warheads will be more than welcome as Pakistan has already christened it "Islamic bomb" . US congress till not allow such a move as it will be opposed by Israeli supporters.

Saudis and other Islamic countries(Libya ) have financed Pakistani nuclear weapons program since 1974 to an unconfirmed amount the truth may never come out so it is not outrageous for Pakistan to help .

Saudis would want some sort of operational control on those warheads like who to target which is unlikely they will get from a superpower like US . US would control everything for those warheads even who to fire upon and when to fire upon and what will be the nuclear red lines . It will be much simpler with respect to Pakistan.

Saudis may want nuclear weapons not just against Shia Iran but against other countries (maybe Israel) US would never allow that , so it is better to depend upon Pakistan a fellow Sunni majority country.

US and 5 other countries have negotiated with Iran for a nuclear deal which would curb the PMD (possible military dimensions) of the Iranian program for next 10 to 15 years atleast why would US take the risk of putting nuclear weapons in Saudi Arabia when it is possible that Iranian spies or Russian techint may find about this and it would force Iran to go nuclear and break the deal jeopardizing Israel , other countries around it and Europe which fears Iranian missile ranges.

In 10 to 15 years time if hypothetically Iran decides to test a nuclear warhead (The current Ayatollah is old the new one might be more extremist ) it will put pressure on Saudis to test which will have to be a Paki warhead no way US is going to test again on behalf of Saudis . As the Radio chemical of the escaped gases if at all it escapes will reveal that its an American design putting pressure on Washington. There is no way in hell US is ever going to test on behalf of Saudis it will have to be Pakistanis.

From the Pakistani point of view it is an brilliant plan as some of its warheads are stored in a safe and reliable place under their military control in an reliable and friendly foreign country like Saudi. Its like have the worlds best SSBN , let the Indians have their SSBNs we have Saudis and other sunni countries to hide our warheads making it very difficult for India even with a huge arsenal .

All this may be false Saudi bravado but if its true apparently CIA thinks so it is more likely going to be Pakis than Americans .
 

Bornubus

Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
7,494
Likes
17,196
Its time to dump our irrelevant no first use policy when Isrsal can exercise Samson option, how can we stick around with NFU.

Pakis will transfer their nukes to KSA in case India tried tries a pre emptive nuclear strike.We should make it clear at least un officially that Entire Muslim world especially Macca will be our legitimate target in case our forces are attacked with Paki nukes.

This is also an effective deterrent against Tactical Nuke Nasr which could hold our forces conducting punitive action or any step to recover POK.
 

Anikastha

DEEP STATE
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
5,005
Likes
8,881
Country flag
There nothing breaking here!!
I already said Saudi must have got nukes by paying $$$ to jihadi pakistani.
And these whores gave away nuke. Look something big gonna happen and that will be brute to humanity.
Nukes in hands of World''s retarded people ain't good Idea.
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,797
Likes
48,276
Country flag
Looks like a who blinks first posturing scenario with nukes on the sides. :confused1:

The worry is Russia has already " demostrated " the use of weapons in Syria with conventional war heads which could very well be coupled with nuclear warheds.
Thats a fair stage of escalation.

Limited Nuclear War Within 18 days as Saudis (and Friends) mass 350,000 troops, 20,000 Tanks, 2,450 Planes, 460 Helicopters for Syria Invasion
https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/884
For some reason I can't see Saudis and their circus they call an alliance (except turkey)
Having the balls to make a difference in Syria.
In many ways I think Russians want an escalation to smash the savages back to the stone age.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

warrior monk

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
650
Likes
1,114
Its time to dump our irrelevant no first use policy when Isrsal can exercise Samson option, how can we stick around with NFU.

Pakis will transfer their nukes to KSA in case India tried tries a pre emptive nuclear strike.We should make it clear at least un officially that Entire Muslim world especially Macca will be our legitimate target in case our forces are attacked with Paki nukes.

This is also an effective deterrent against Tactical Nuke Nasr which could hold our forces conducting punitive action or any step to recover POK.
There is no need to change our NFU policy but we should tweak our nuclear policy it with something like
"Anybody found helping ,sheltering or hiding Pakistani nuclear weapons in their country and in case of hostilities between India and Pakistan and if it went nuclear then that said country will be taken as an aggressor against India in this conflict and India will use its nuclear weapons on that country irrespective of its nuclear weapon status".

Ways to overcome this Pakistani move

1) Changing our nuclear policy to the said effect with additional clauses

2)Developing Space based infrared satellites , satellites under 30 cm resolutions (We can do that ) with multi GB/sec download speed , collect huge amount of geospatial data, SAR satellites (Which we already have in "c" and "X" band) NASA and ISRO are also working on Next generation SAR satellites .

3) Develop Techint and humint capabilities with Israel to monitor on military movements and missile tests in middle east .

4)Have a maximalist position as far creating fissile material is concerned to give us options for a massive counter attack anywhere .

5)Increase the number of SSBNs (We are already making 6 to 9) but it is not enough for a credible second strike.

6) Fast track our BMD program and work with US , Israel etc US has already approached us and may have pitched their systems and construct large solid state phased array radars for MIRV tracking

7)Integrate all the space and land based systems data in all the spectrum with the intelligence collected through humint ,sigint etc to give an unparalleled information for our Leaders and armed forces .
 

rockey 71

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
1,017
Likes
363
Iran is a recessed nuclear state and has no nuclear weapons , its plutonium producing reactor has been dismantled and it centrifuges are under safeguards plus it cannot enrich more than 19 % uranium so it rules out nuclear capability now . Its future bomb assembling factory is under safeguards .
Saudis may have Paki nuclear bomb essentially under paki military control so it is essentially a Paki weapon in Saudi Arabia.
Turkey doesn't have any nuclear ambitions it only has American B-61 nuclear weapons under American control not under turkey's control so it is essentially American weapon in Turkey.
Like the Saudis Iran could have acquired nukes under Bhutto or Zaradri - both Shiahs. Half of the NATO / US nukes held in Turkey are exclusive Turkish property under the terms that they have with NATO/USA.
 

warrior monk

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Messages
650
Likes
1,114
Like the Saudis Iran could have acquired nukes under Bhutto or Zaradri - both Shiahs. Half of the NATO / US nukes held in Turkey are exclusive Turkish property under the terms that they have with NATO/USA.
Yeah if you think Paki PMs are controlling the nuclear weapons then you are naive my friend . Paki if they ever transfer it will be to Saudi Arabia not Shia Iran .
Those B61 are currently only in US control and they can be used only if Turkey is attacked by nuclear weapons from Soviet union and if the Red army invades then Turkey has options . After the demise of Soviet union there need has probably been reduced.
 

spikey360

Crusader
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
3,453
Likes
6,385
Country flag
It is not a war through proxies.
It is direct war.
Ukraine is also direct war where Russian soldiers are at the front.
USA and Russia would not go to direct war, ever. If it is one thing history has taught, it is this. The Russians and the Americans both dream of world domination, they are willing to share this world if it is convenient for them to do so. Unless one gathers the strength of annihilating the other with absolute certainty (a very rare possibility), there will only be proxy wars.
Also note, the US armymen consider Russians their brothers in arms. Although same is not the case for Russians. It is not like India - Pakistan scenario. They don't hate each other that much. They just don't want each others interference.

Its time to dump our irrelevant no first use policy when Isrsal can exercise Samson option, how can we stick around with NFU.
There is no need to officially dump NFU. When time and circumstances come, we will use first.
 

Bornubus

Chodi Bhakt & BJPig Hunter
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
7,494
Likes
17,196
There is no need to change our NFU policy but we should tweak our nuclear policy it with something like
"Anybody found helping ,sheltering or hiding Pakistani nuclear weapons in their country and in case of hostilities between India and Pakistan and if it went nuclear then that said country will be taken as an aggressor against India in this conflict and India will use its nuclear weapons on that country irrespective of its nuclear weapon status".

Ways to overcome this Pakistani move

1) Changing our nuclear policy to the said effect with additional clauses

2)Developing Space based infrared satellites , satellites under 30 cm resolutions (We can do that ) with multi GB/sec download speed , collect huge amount of geospatial data, SAR satellites (Which we already have in "c" and "X" band) NASA and ISRO are also working on Next generation SAR satellites .

3) Develop Techint and humint capabilities with Israel to monitor on military movements and missile tests in middle east .

4)Have a maximalist position as far creating fissile material is concerned to give us options for a massive counter attack anywhere .

5)Increase the number of SSBNs (We are already making 6 to 9) but it is not enough for a credible second strike.

6) Fast track our BMD program and work with US , Israel etc US has already approached us and may have pitched their systems and construct large solid state phased array radars for MIRV tracking

7)Integrate all the space and land based systems data in all the spectrum with the intelligence collected through humint ,sigint etc to give an unparalleled information for our Leaders and armed forces .
This is an indirect way of saying that Macca would be a legitimate target, since it is the only country where Pakis will hide their Nukes to save them from preemptive strike.

I think we already have Spy satellites which can monitor entire Pak in real time IMO this was the reason why we de commissioned the only reconnaissance Jet MIG 25

Adding to your points we should also tried to induct long range Rocket artillery with 150 + km with GPS like chinese Weishi Rockets to neutralise NARS, which our Satellites can pinpoint 24/7
 

DEJAVU

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
484
Likes
64
[QUOTE="warrior monk, post: 1137937, member: 15552]Nothing as Iran is a nuclear recessed state now after JCPOA . If they test Saudis will test their Paki warhead to give izzat to the Sunni world .[/QUOTE]
But as per pendustan pakistan dont have nukes and it has chinese nukes or may be korean so you trying to say that chinese or koreans give saudis nukes?

Very intelligent.
 

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,000
Likes
2,302
Country flag
Nobody knows whose warheads are there even if they are actually present , all this may be Saudi false bravado.
The point is it is unlikely that US has Saudi under nuclear umbrella and it doesn't matter how many warheads US has . First Saudis don't require large number of warheads as people in their neighborhood as not exactly nuclear powers except Israel.
There are 5 US military bases in Saudi Arab now. These bases and the American soldiers in there guarantee the de facto nuclear protection already.

Presence of US warheads will have to under a program like NATO nuclear sharing agreement ,Saudis don't want to be seen signing such agreements with US (The great Satan) as it will not bode well with its wahabi ideology and the larger Sunni world while Pakistani warheads will be more than welcome as Pakistan has already christened it "Islamic bomb" . US congress till not allow such a move as it will be opposed by Israeli supporters.
You don't need the presence of US warhead within your border to prove their nuclear umbrella.

Saudis and other Islamic countries(Libya ) have financed Pakistani nuclear weapons program since 1974 to an unconfirmed amount the truth may never come out so it is not outrageous for Pakistan to help.

Saudis would want some sort of operational control on those warheads like who to target which is unlikely they will get from a superpower like US . US would control everything for those warheads even who to fire upon and when to fire upon and what will be the nuclear red lines . It will be much simpler with respect to Pakistan.
Unfortunately, Pakistan has even more problems in transferring the control of her nuclear weapon to Saudi Arab. The store of her nuke is not only monitored by US, but also China.

Saudis may want nuclear weapons not just against Shia Iran but against other countries (maybe Israel) US would never allow that , so it is better to depend upon Pakistan a fellow Sunni majority country.
Unless Pakistan wants to risk of losing all her nuclear weapons, she won't go that far. It was not easy for Pakistan to calm American and Chinese down last time when they found what Khan did.

US and 5 other countries have negotiated with Iran for a nuclear deal which would curb the PMD (possible military dimensions) of the Iranian program for next 10 to 15 years atleast why would US take the risk of putting nuclear weapons in Saudi Arabia when it is possible that Iranian spies or Russian techint may find about this and it would force Iran to go nuclear and break the deal jeopardizing Israel , other countries around it and Europe which fears Iranian missile ranges.
Providing nuclear umbrella doesn't mean you need to put a nuclear bomb in Saudi Arab. Besides, a nuclear umbrella means 2 things: one, it is totally defensive, Saudi can't threat anyone with it; two, you will stop pursuing your nuclear weapon.

In 10 to 15 years time if hypothetically Iran decides to test a nuclear warhead (The current Ayatollah is old the new one might be more extremist ) it will put pressure on Saudis to test which will have to be a Paki warhead no way US is going to test again on behalf of Saudis . As the Radio chemical of the escaped gases if at all it escapes will reveal that its an American design putting pressure on Washington. There is no way in hell US is ever going to test on behalf of Saudis it will have to be Pakistanis.
Iran is not North Korea, they can't afford the price of being isolated by the world.

From the Pakistani point of view it is an brilliant plan as some of its warheads are stored in a safe and reliable place under their military control in an reliable and friendly foreign country like Saudi. Its like have the worlds best SSBN , let the Indians have their SSBNs we have Saudis and other sunni countries to hide our warheads making it very difficult for India even with a huge arsenal.
There is one problem in your argument: they will have great difficulty to get their warheads back before the end of war. Once the war starts, Indian navy will try to block all her ports.

All this may be false Saudi bravado but if its true apparently CIA thinks so it is more likely going to be Pakis than Americans .
Sometimes, CIA also lies intentionally.
 

garg_bharat

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
5,078
Likes
10,139
Country flag
Any nuclear bomb used in war by any party will shatter the npt regime.

It will have grave consequences as many countries race to acquire nuclear weapons in the name of security.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top