Sarasvati River

Sarasvati river existed?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 24 96.0%
  • No.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't knew.

    Votes: 1 4.0%

  • Total voters
    25

Indrajit

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There was definitely a west-flowing river passing through Haryana and Rajasthan. However, it is debatable if the name is "Saraswati'. There are no place names or person names in Veda. Veda is not a history book. Immense intellect is required to understand Veda, its language is not common Sanskrit. The language of Veda cannot be understood by Pundits.
The Rig Veda is full of place and person names. Many of the mandalas are directly connected to specific priestly clans and while the Rig Veda is not an history book, it mentions many characters within it. After all, the core Mandalas 2-7 are known as family books for a reason. They are mandalas connected to the Bharatas, the main clan of the Rig veda and there are many mentions of the heroes from that clan.

Incorrect to say no place or person names. As for language, there are changes in languages over time, even English written or spoken a 1000 years ago would be very difficult to understand now.
 
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Sarasvati River Basin sites are over 80% of all sites of the Civilization :

uwu.jpg


अम्बितमे नदीतमे देवितमे सरस्वति |
''Best mother, best river, best goddess, Sarasvatī
—''
– Rigveda 2.41.16
Why the Rigvedic rishis/ sages said so? Well... here is a reason:
See the map , the map shows the distribution of Harappan sites. Note the magnificent amount of concentration, of Harappan sites, detected along Saraswati River (Modern Ghaggar-Hakra). River Saraswati was just not the life force of the glory of Vedic Arya Civilization, but also of the great Harappan Civilization. So, when ~4000 years ago, she started to fade, the great civilization also couldn't remain and slowly transformed...
Map reference: Joshi JP, Bisht RS (1994) India and the Indus civilization. National Museum Institute, New Delhi.
 

shade

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Sarasvati River Basin sites are over 80% of all sites of the Civilization :

View attachment 74693

अम्बितमे नदीतमे देवितमे सरस्वति |
''Best mother, best river, best goddess, Sarasvatī
—''
– Rigveda 2.41.16
Why the Rigvedic rishis/ sages said so? Well... here is a reason:
See the map , the map shows the distribution of Harappan sites. Note the magnificent amount of concentration, of Harappan sites, detected along Saraswati River (Modern Ghaggar-Hakra). River Saraswati was just not the life force of the glory of Vedic Arya Civilization, but also of the great Harappan Civilization. So, when ~4000 years ago, she started to fade, the great civilization also couldn't remain and slowly transformed...
Map reference: Joshi JP, Bisht RS (1994) India and the Indus civilization. National Museum Institute, New Delhi.
Any Idea what shut off a big river like this?
Like it's a fact that what is now Kutch area in Gujrarat once had the Arabain sea in it, but once an earthquake happened that close off the inlet to Kutch, the seawater dried for the most part and you have salt deserts there today.

Could something similar have happened? or did it just dry up?
 
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Oldest securely dated evidence for a river flowing through the Thar Desert, Western BHARAT-- :

MaxPlank Society Oct 2020 :


Using luminescence dating of ancient river sediments, a new study published in Quaternary Science Reviews presents evidence for river activity at Nal Quarry in the central Thar Desert starting from approx. 173 thousand years ago. These findings represent the oldest directly dated phase of river activity in the region and indicate Stone Age populations lived in a distinctly different Thar Desert landscape than we encounter today.

This evidence indicates a river flowed with phases of activity dating to approx. 172, 140, 95 and 78 thousand years ago, nearby to Bikaner, which is over 200 km away from the nearest modern river. These findings predate evidence for activity in modern river courses across the Thar Desert as well as dried up course of the Ghaggar-Hakra River. The presence of a river running through the central Thar Desert would have offered a life-line to Paleolithic populations, and potentially an important corridor for migrations.

A deep deposit of river sands and gravels was studied by the team, which had been exposed by quarrying activity near the village of Nal, just outside of Bikaner. By studying the different deposits, the researchers were able to document different phases of river activity. "We immediately saw evidence for a substantial and very active river system from the bottom of the fluvial deposits, which gradually decreased in power through time," explained Achyuthan. "Standing in the middle of the desert, the question we had to answer was, "How old was this river?'"

uwu2.jpg

Prof. Hema Achyuthan examining the deep river sediments at Nal Quarry, which date from ~172 thousand years ago at the bottom to 26 thousand years ago at the top. Credit: J. Blinkhorn

The researchers used a method called luminescence dating to understand when quartz grains in the river sands were buried. The results indicated that the strongest river activity at Nal occurred at approx. 172 and 140 thousand years ago, at a time when the monsoon was much weaker than today in the region. River activity continued at the site between 95 to 78 thousand years ago, after which only limited evidence for the presence of a river at the site, with evidence for a brief reactivation of the channel 26 thousand years ago.


The researchers used a method called luminescence dating to understand when quartz grains in the river sands were buried. The results indicated that the strongest river activity at Nal occurred at approx. 172 and 140 thousand years ago, at a time when the monsoon was much weaker than today in the region. River activity continued at the site between 95 to 78 thousand years ago, after which only limited evidence for the presence of a river at the site, with evidence for a brief reactivation of the channel 26 thousand years ago.

The first dated evidence for Middle-Late Pleistocene fluvial activity in the central Thar Desert :

See- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277379120306181?via=ihub
 
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yo @shade
As the various cities of the SARASWATI-Basin declined, some two thousand kilometers away, the Akkadian Empire also vanished. Was that a co-incidence?

A curious 4000-year old story, The Curse of Agade (also spelt as Akkad /Akkade), a favorite with Babylonian scribes, has been of much interest to modern scholars and researchers. For more than 75 years now, these texts have been analysed and examined. Many versions of this lament were recovered from Sumerian sites (like Nippur). This ‘lament’ was long thought to be a mythical-literary text – with little historical value. Wrongly thought! This poem described how,



The large fields produced no grain
The flooded fields produced no fish
The watered garden produced no honey and wine …

He who slept in the house, had no burial
People were flailing at themselves from hunger



This extract above, from clay tablet, known as the Curse of Akkad,dated 2200 BC, gained documentary credibility after some recent research. This study showed that it was not Gutians who destroyed Akkad, but it was the multi-century drought...

This study, indicated a prolonged drought in the Akkadian region. To confirm Akkad’s drought, soil samples were analysed. This study confirmed (Weiss 1993) that a prolonged drought significantly, affected the Akkadian empire.


See -The curse of agade/akkad
See - Sumerian poetry by jeremy black
See - Ancient mesopotamia,new perspectives by jane mcintosh
See - http://www.san.beck.org/EC3-Sumer.html#4
See - who destroyed akkad
See - https://www.jstor.org/stable/1312276
 

shade

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yo @shade
As the various cities of the SARASWATI-Basin declined, some two thousand kilometers away, the Akkadian Empire also vanished. Was that a co-incidence?

A curious 4000-year old story, The Curse of Agade (also spelt as Akkad /Akkade), a favorite with Babylonian scribes, has been of much interest to modern scholars and researchers. For more than 75 years now, these texts have been analysed and examined. Many versions of this lament were recovered from Sumerian sites (like Nippur). This ‘lament’ was long thought to be a mythical-literary text – with little historical value. Wrongly thought! This poem described how,



The large fields produced no grain
The flooded fields produced no fish
The watered garden produced no honey and wine …

He who slept in the house, had no burial
People were flailing at themselves from hunger



This extract above, from clay tablet, known as the Curse of Akkad,dated 2200 BC, gained documentary credibility after some recent research. This study showed that it was not Gutians who destroyed Akkad, but it was the multi-century drought...

This study, indicated a prolonged drought in the Akkadian region. To confirm Akkad’s drought, soil samples were analysed. This study confirmed (Weiss 1993) that a prolonged drought significantly, affected the Akkadian empire.


See -The curse of agade/akkad
See - Sumerian poetry by jeremy black
See - Ancient mesopotamia,new perspectives by jane mcintosh
See - http://www.san.beck.org/EC3-Sumer.html#4
See - who destroyed akkad
See - https://www.jstor.org/stable/1312276
There is also a theory goes that Indus valley civilization also take out by a very long drought.
 
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On the reasons for Saraswati drying up, the reason proposes that “tectonic activity in the northern Punjab … bifurcated the water of the Himalayas from the western drainage system of the Indus to the eastern drainage system of the Ganges”. Researchers have reconstructed that the original Saraswati possibly,

Originated in Bandapunch masiff (Sarawati-Rupin glacier confluence at Naitwar in western Garhwal). Descending through Adibadri, Bhavanipur and Balchapur in the foothills to the plains, the river took roughly a southwesterly course, passing through the plains of Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, Gujarat and finally it is believed to have debouched into the ancient Arabian Sea at the Great Rann of Kutch. In this long journey, Saraswati was believed to have had three tributaries, Shatadru (Sutlej) arising from Mount Kailas, Drishadvati from Siwalik Hills and the old Yamuna.
See - The Saraswati Civilization
See - https://www.geospatialworld.net/article/the-saraswati-where-lies-the-mystery/

Based on satellite imagery and research, there is an apparent correlation between the dried up Saraswati river bed and most of the ‘Indus-Valley civilization’ archaeological sites.

uwu2.png


Earlier, even before the LANDSAT pictures from nasa , surveyors were intrigued about

the source of the perennial supply of subsurface water in western part of the Great Bhartiya Desert where annual rainfall is so meagre and erratic (less than 150 mm) that it cannot contribute substantially to the perennial wells of the area.
Some 160 years ago, Saraswati’s dry river bed impressed most who saw it. In the middle of nineteenth century, a British surveyor described Saraswati’s dry river bed which

runs through an open country with little or no cultivation, and may be increased to any breadth; camels may march by it fifty abreast on either side of column of troops.


While the Saraswati dried up, it left behind tell-tale markers.

ISRO has dug up 23 tube wells along the course of the river mapped by it across 70 kilometers west of Jaisalmer in Rajasthan.
The results have been startling. All the wells have provided good quality drinking water with very little Total Dissolved Salts (TDS). The water itself was found at a depth ranging from 35 to 60 meters which is unusual for the area which is covered with sand dunes.
“We also dug a well 50 meters away from the channel and yielded water with very high TDS content proving quality water exists only around the old river bed of the extinct river,” he added.
In 1968, deep bores were sunk along the dried river bed.

The alternate plentiful supply and scarcity of water in the river is confirmed by the boring in the river bed by Raikes, 1968.
This tectonic-climatic disturbance affected a large swath of the Bhartiya sub-continent.
 
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On Perennial Saraswati :

The fact that geological studies have indicated the ancient Ghaggar-Hakra did not have its origins in Himalayan glaciers, but in the Sivalik ranges, does not rule it out as the likely Vedic Sarasvati, as some have tried to needlessly argue. The Rig Veda says that the river extended from giri (RV 6.61.2, 7.95.2) to samudra (RV 7.95.2), so its origin in the Sivaliks cannot be a problem. Indeed, popular belief has it that the Sarasvati originated in Adi Badri in the Sivaliks, which is part of the Sapta Badri pilgrimage sites.

Clift and his group describe the Sarasvati as a perennial, monsoonal river with multiple courses, fed by many streams, and with gentle floods that contrasted sharply with the fury of rivers like the Indus, that very effectively sustained agriculture in the Saraswati civilisation.

See - www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/105/07/0888.pdf

This picture explains the extremely high density of Harappan settlements in the region between the Yamuna and Sutlej rivers, rather than along any one course.(RV mentions Saraswati river between Yamuna and Sutlej !!!!) It also explains why the Harappans did not need recourse to canal irrigation for agriculture. To take the example of Haryana, Bidyut Bhadra and colleagues point out that clustered Mature Harappan (2600-1900 BCE) sites are located in Jind and Karnal districts near paleochannels, as well as Late (1900-1300 BCE) and Post Harappan (1500 BCE and later) sites along streams like the present-day Saraswati Nadi and Markanda River, which join the Ghaggar.

When the river swelled in the monsoon, it would gently flood its plain, leaving it ready for the sowing of winter crops like barley and wheat. Unlike the glacially-fed Indus and its tributaries, the Sarasvati did not pose the danger of unexpected floods from early melting snow in February/March that might destroy the crop, which could be harvested in the spring.

See - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12594-009-0084-y

This explains why the agriculture in that region was based on barley and wheat, unlike the Gangetic plain, where it was based on rice. Interestingly, it can also explain a common tradition: that of offering barley (Jau) on the occasion of the spring festival of Sarasvati Puja on the day of Vasanta Panchami, although barley is not commonly cultivated – it may well be a several millennia-old practice that we have faithfully retained!

In another study, Clift et al. also throw light on the possible factors behind the poorly-understood urbanisation process in the Saraswati Civilization. The Harappans seemed to have developed a sudden urge to build cities around 2600 BCE , leading to rapid and widespread urbanisation in just about a century. Even as aridification had set in, a remarkable stabilisation of rivers and reduction in the intensity of floods occurred, that proved conducive to intensive agriculture and, subsequently, urbanisation. However, the decline in the monsoon, reaching its worst around 2100 BCE tipped the scales, triggering the decline of the Harappan cities. The Sarasvati itself started drying up around 4500 years ago, and was completely covered by sand dunes around 600 CE.
kek.PNG

See - https://www.pnas.org/content/109/26/E1688.abstract

kek.PNG


See - https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/geology/article-lookup/42/4/339

We find the development of distinct regional characteristics, and the shift towards hardier crops like millets and Kharif crops after 1900 BCE, suggesting that there was no new population – much less one with rudimentary agricultural skills as the incoming steppyniggrs would have been – but a native one that knew the land and conditions intimately enough to diversify and adapt quickly in a rapidly changing scenario.


Also the latest research paper that recently came out in nature also just confirms this.
On the existence of a perennial river in the Harappan heartland :
See - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41...LXIEe30Oo3UuI8HTPzAnpyHgSeQF0W-TPp21ybhkfr8Ak

Folks the founding fragile pillar fueling the larp of aitfags was that river SARASWATI only existed as a monsoon fed river . This latest paper in November 2019 was published which literally obiliterated this pig shit delusion... THIS LATEST PAPER CLEARLY CONCLUDES that RIVER SARASWATI WAS GLACIAL FED RIVER AND EXISTED BETWEEN 9000 to 4500 years before present !!!!
Given that the Rig Veda mentions Saraswati in full might, meeting the sea from the mountains; based on geological evidence, its composition would coincide (in the latest) with the Mature phase of the Saraswati civilisation.Based on the above mentioned paper, Rig Vedas date of composition goes between 9-4.5 ka. This gives a deadly blow to the aitfags. Not to mention even Clift and his fellow researchers finally conclude:
“This is a testament to the acuity of the RIG VEDA composers who transmitted to us across millennia such an incredibly accurate description of a grand river!” ;)

@N4tsula67 this was specifically on your request.
 
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So the latest research study investigated the changes in sediment provenance over time along a 300 km stretch of the Ghaggar river basin. It concluded that 9,000 to 4,500 years ago (9-4.5 ka) the river was perennial and was receiving sediments from the Higher and Lesser Himalayas. Then it is worth noting that the Rig Veda mentions Saraswati as ‘one of the seven sisters’, ‘unbroken’, ‘pure in her course from mountain to sea’, ‘breaks through the ridges of the mountains with her strong waves’. Several teerthas at its banks are also mentioned.

And with this , delusions of aitfags are blown and shattered right here and now .
 

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