Russia's MiG starts new batch of fighters for Indian Navy

[Hemant Gaikwad]

I dont get it the MIG29 is an outdated plane ... I dont know why doesnt the Indian Navy deploy MIG 35 on the carrier instead , They should have renegotiated this with the Russians when the Russians asked for a price hike .... they had a valid reason. Especially since the Indian carrier is a small one , we need to have the most advanced gets that we can buy on that carrier ... agreed that the sukhoi is too big a plane , but a MIG 35 is the same size as a MIG29 ... we saw the kind of bad track record the MIG 29 has verses NATO Jets during the Iraq war

 

[Bheeshma]

Mig-29K is nothing like Mig-29A/C and has elements of Mig-35. The only time NATO went up against Mig-29 was when it was backed by AWACS and 10:1 numerical superiority. 1 on 1 F-16 cannot stand against the Mig-29 or Mirage 2000 for that matter.

 

[average american]

During Kargil war, PAF did the stupidity of scambling few F-16s against IAF fighters operating in the region. MIG-29s were providing fighter cover, the moment they locked thr radar on F-16s, the PAF ran away from the area.

To be honest about it the Kargil War was more of a little conflict where Pakistan blamed the fighting entirely on independent Kashmiri insurgents, it would have been hard to do if their Pakistan Airforce was involved. Pakistan mixed a few hundred pakistan military in with the insurgents but it was hardly a war.

Heres more about the Mig 29 then you will ever want to know,,,notice 7 parts.

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/MiG-29-2b.htm

 

[average american]

Mig-29K is nothing like Mig-29A/C and has elements of Mig-35. The only time NATO went up against Mig-29 was when it was backed by AWACS and 10:1 numerical superiority. 1 on 1 F-16 cannot stand against the Mig-29 or Mirage 2000 for that matter.

Theres a lot of excuses any time the US or Israel makes Russian Equipment look like a bunch of junk.. Heres what I would look out for with the Mig 29,, 1. Its complicated, and hard to learn to fly and evern harder to learn to fly and pay attention to fighting at the same time and I expect that apply even more to carrier planes.

2. USSR and Russian training procedures does not seem to motivate pilots, in most cases NATO pilots know more about the Mig 29 then the pilots of the Mig 29.

3. The Russians have been nortorious for parts shortages and repairs, theres even a shortage of spare parts for Russian Mig 29s.

National geographic MiG-29 squadrons of IAF (Indian Airforce) mini documentary - YouTube

You can buy a Mig 29 on the open market now days if you have enough money.
http://www.raptoraviation.com/aircraft spec pages/Mig29.html

 

[Hemant Gaikwad]

Theres a lot of excuses any time the US or Israel makes Russian Equipment look like a bunch of junk.. Heres what I would look out for with the Mig 29,, 1. Its complicated, and hard to learn to fly and evern harder to learn to fly and pay attention to fighting at the same time and I expect that apply even more to carrier planes.

2. USSR and Russian training procedures does not seem to motivate pilots, in most cases NATO pilots know more about the Mig 29 then the pilots of the Mig 29.

3. The Russians have been nortorious for parts shortages and repairs, theres even a shortage of spare parts for Russian Mig 29s.

National geographic MiG-29 squadrons of IAF (Indian Airforce) mini documentary - YouTube

You can buy a Mig 29 on the open market now days if you have enough money.
Mig 29UB / Fulcrum B by Raptor Aviation, Inc.

Hey I had watched that video years ago, but am glad I watched it again... it re instated my confidence in the MIG29, if our boys are happy ...I am happy. Also the fact doest escape that the American pilots were way better trained then the Iraqi ones and that the report said that only one MIG29 was shot down that too at takeoff . But my Point is that this carrier is going to last us for the next 30-60 years, we should equip it with the very latest available today , especially since the conflict that we would see would be with either Pakistan or China , and both of these have repetitively advanced air-forces. Its not exactly that India is gonna go to the Falklands and fight the Argentinians

 

[Hemant Gaikwad]

hey BTW how do the Rafale compare with the MIG29 ? anyone knows? there are whispers that the Rafale will also be deployed on the carrier

 

[average american]

Hey I had watched that video years ago, but am glad I watched it again... it re instated my confidence in the MIG29, if our boys are happy ...I am happy. Also the fact doest escape that the American pilots were way better trained then the Iraqi ones and that the report said that only one MIG29 was shot down that too at takeoff . But my Point is that this carrier is going to last us for the next 30-60 years, we should equip it with the very latest available today , especially since the conflict that we would see would be with either Pakistan or China , and both of these have repetitively advanced air-forces. Its not exactly that India is gonna go to the Falklands and fight the Argentinians

Am not sure aircraft carriers last 70 or 80 years but good luck.

 

[jackprince]

I dont get it the MIG29 is an outdated plane ... I dont know why doesnt the Indian Navy deploy MIG 35 on the carrier instead , They should have renegotiated this with the Russians when the Russians asked for a price hike .... they had a valid reason. Especially since the Indian carrier is a small one , we need to have the most advanced gets that we can buy on that carrier ... agreed that the sukhoi is too big a plane , but a MIG 35 is the same size as a MIG29 ... we saw the kind of bad track record the MIG 29 has verses NATO Jets during the Iraq war

Brother, I would suggest you to spend some time in this forum, read some related threads, learn some facts, gather knowledge and then comment, or it would be very exhausting for others to educate you of the matters which has been discussed a million times over in this forum.

 

[Decklander]

To be honest about it the Kargil War was more of a little conflict where Pakistan blamed the fighting entirely on independent Kashmiri insurgents, it would have been hard to do if their Pakistan Airforce was involved. Pakistan mixed a few hundred pakistan military in with the insurgents but it was hardly a war.

Heres more about the Mig 29 then you will ever want to know,,,notice 7 parts.

Fighter Aicraft, MiG-29/4

Those PAF F-16s did not have BVRAAM while IAF Mig-29s had. That was the reason for PAF runnung away.

 

[Hemant Gaikwad]

Am not sure aircraft carriers last 70 or 80 years but good luck.

I said 30-60 ....but I certainly didnt say 70-80 years :shocked: considering that the carrier has already served in the Russian navy for quite a few years

 

[average american]

Those PAF F-16s did not have BVRAAM while IAF Mig-29s had. That was the reason for PAF runnung away.

Prove it.

Everybody has opinions, I like to back mine up with facts.. Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal PQ Mehdi quoted that "any intervention by the Navy and the PAF into disputed land of Indian-controlled Kashmir would be perceived as an escalation to all-out declared war" was his quote to Musharraf. Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In a national security meeting with Prime minister Nawaz Sharif at the Joint Headquarters, General Musharraf became heavily involved with serious altercations with Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Fasih Bokhari who ultimately called for a court-martial against General Musharraf.[125] Taking participation in the arguments, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal PQ Mehdi quoted that "any intervention by the Navy and the PAF into disputed land of Indian-controlled Kashmir would be perceived as an escalation to all-out declared war".[126] After witnessing Musharraf's criticism given to his fellow officers, ACM PQ Mehdi decided to give Musharraf a favor after issuing orders to PAF's F-16s for the patrolling missions near the Skardu Valley.[127] The Pakistan Navy largely remains camouflaged during this entire conflict, only submarines were deployed for partrolling missions.[128] With Sharif placing the onus of the Kargil attacks squarely on the army chief Pervez Musharraf, there was an atmosphere of uneasiness between the two. On October 12, 1999, General Musharraf staged a bloodless coup d'état, ousting Nawaz Sharif.

If you look at the Kargil War From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kargil_War
India had 30,000 soldiers involved, Pakistan had about 5000 soldiers and insurgent,
Indias losses were Indian Official Figures: 527 killed[3][4][5]
1,363 wounded[6]
1 POW
1 fighter jet shot down
1 fighter jet crashed
1 helicopter shot down

and if you go by Pakistans claims
Pakistan Military claims 353-453 killed[7][8]
665+ wounded[7]
8 POWs[9]

you would have to say Pakistan won this one. Even if you go by Indians claims on Pakistani losses considering that the Pakistanis were out numbered 6 to 1 I would have to calll this a win for Pakistan.

 

[average american]

I said 30-36 years mistyped it as 30-60 ....but I certainly didnt say 70-80 years :shocked:

You do know its already over 30 years old dont you.

 

[mikhail]

Prove it.

Everybody has opinions, I like to back mine up with facts.. Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal PQ Mehdi quoted that "any intervention by the Navy and the PAF into disputed land of Indian-controlled Kashmir would be perceived as an escalation to all-out declared war" was his quote to Musharraf. Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In a national security meeting with Prime minister Nawaz Sharif at the Joint Headquarters, General Musharraf became heavily involved with serious altercations with Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Fasih Bokhari who ultimately called for a court-martial against General Musharraf.[125] Taking participation in the arguments, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal PQ Mehdi quoted that "any intervention by the Navy and the PAF into disputed land of Indian-controlled Kashmir would be perceived as an escalation to all-out declared war".[126] After witnessing Musharraf's criticism given to his fellow officers, ACM PQ Mehdi decided to give Musharraf a favor after issuing orders to PAF's F-16s for the patrolling missions near the Skardu Valley.[127] The Pakistan Navy largely remains camouflaged during this entire conflict, only submarines were deployed for partrolling missions.[128] With Sharif placing the onus of the Kargil attacks squarely on the army chief Pervez Musharraf, there was an atmosphere of uneasiness between the two. On October 12, 1999, General Musharraf staged a bloodless coup d'état, ousting Nawaz Sharif.

If you look at the Kargil War From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
India had 30,000 soldiers involved, Pakistan had about 5000 soldiers and insurgent,
Indias losses were Indian Official Figures: 527 killed[3][4][5]
1,363 wounded[6]
1 POW
1 fighter jet shot down
1 fighter jet crashed
1 helicopter shot down

and if you go by Pakistans claims
Pakistan Military claims 353-453 killed[7][8]
665+ wounded[7]
8 POWs[9]

you would have to say Pakistan won this one. Even if you go by Indians claims on Pakistani losses considering that the Pakistanis were out numbered 6 to 1 I would have to calll this a win for Pakistan.

have the U.S.Armed Forces ever fought a war at a height of 16,000 ft!mate fighting a mountain war where the enemy is occupying the higher mountain points is next to impossible and if you still manage to fight and win the war it will cost you around 8-9 times more casualties than your enemy.so in this context we all should rather praise the Indian Army as not only they managed to win the war they also managed to keep the casualty rate at minimum,i mean we lost 527 soldiers and on the other hand even by their own admission the PA lost around 453 soldiers whose names were published in their official website a few years back!plus Nawaz Sharif who was the pakistani P.M. at that time himself admittted that pakistan suffered around 3000-4000 casualties during the Kargil war.Period!

Pakistan army losses have been difficult to determine. Pakistan confirmed that 453 soldiers were killed. The US Department of State had made an early, partial estimate of close to 700 fatalities. According to numbers stated by Nawaz Sharif there were over 4,000 fatalities. His PML (N) party in its "white paper" on the war mentioned that more than 3,000 Mujahideens, officers and soldiers were killed.[145] Another major Pakistani political party, the Pakistan Peoples Party, also says that "thousands" of soldiers and irregulars died.[146] Indian estimates stand at 1,042 Pakistani soldiers killed.[147] Musharraf, in his Hindi version of his memoirs, titled "Agnipath", differs from all the estimates stating that 357 troops were killed with a further 665 wounded.[148] Apart from General Musharraf's figure on the number of Pakistanis wounded, the number of people injured in the Pakistan camp is not yet fully known although they are at least more than 400 according to Pakistan army's website.[149] One Indian Pilot was officially captured during the fighting, while there were eight Pakistani soldiers who were captured during the fighting, and were repatriated on 13 August 1999;[9]
India gave its official casualty figures as 527 dead and 1,363 wounded.

Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sayareakd]

I think as an American you cant digest the fact that F16 ran way from Mig 29, at least you should see to whom you are giving weapons too.

 

[Decklander]

@AA, I do not have to prove anything here. You know it that PAF had early model F-16A/Bs only and they are just WVR fighters also pls show me one piece of info which says that PAF had BVRAAMs in 1999. India had MIg-23MFs, Mirage 2k and MIG-29 equipped with BVRs in 1999.

 

[sayareakd]

here i dig it out

Indian MiG-29s were used extensively during the 1999 Kargil War in Kashmir by the Indian Air Force to provide fighter escort for Mirage 2000s, which were attacking targets with laser-guided bombs. According to Indian sources, two MiG-29s from the IAF's No. 47 squadron (Black Archers) gained missile lock on two F-16s of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) which were patrolling close to the border to prevent any incursions by Indian aircraft, but did not engage them because no official declaration of war had been issued. The Indian MiG-29s were armed with beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles whereas the Pakistani F-16s were not.[33]

http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=kargil+war+Mig+29+F16+incident+BVR&btnG=

 

[Payeng]

Prove it.

Everybody has opinions, I like to back mine up with facts.. Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal PQ Mehdi quoted that "any intervention by the Navy and the PAF into disputed land of Indian-controlled Kashmir would be perceived as an escalation to all-out declared war" was his quote to Musharraf. Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In a national security meeting with Prime minister Nawaz Sharif at the Joint Headquarters, General Musharraf became heavily involved with serious altercations with Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Fasih Bokhari who ultimately called for a court-martial against General Musharraf.[125] Taking participation in the arguments, Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal PQ Mehdi quoted that "any intervention by the Navy and the PAF into disputed land of Indian-controlled Kashmir would be perceived as an escalation to all-out declared war".[126] After witnessing Musharraf's criticism given to his fellow officers, ACM PQ Mehdi decided to give Musharraf a favor after issuing orders to PAF's F-16s for the patrolling missions near the Skardu Valley.[127] The Pakistan Navy largely remains camouflaged during this entire conflict, only submarines were deployed for partrolling missions.[128] With Sharif placing the onus of the Kargil attacks squarely on the army chief Pervez Musharraf, there was an atmosphere of uneasiness between the two. On October 12, 1999, General Musharraf staged a bloodless coup d'état, ousting Nawaz Sharif.

If you look at the Kargil War From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
India had 30,000 soldiers involved, Pakistan had about 5000 soldiers and insurgent,
Indias losses were Indian Official Figures: 527 killed[3][4][5]
1,363 wounded[6]
1 POW
1 fighter jet shot down
1 fighter jet crashed
1 helicopter shot down

and if you go by Pakistans claims
Pakistan Military claims 353-453 killed[7][8]
665+ wounded[7]
8 POWs[9]

you would have to say Pakistan won this one. Even if you go by Indians claims on Pakistani losses considering that the Pakistanis were out numbered 6 to 1 I would have to calll this a win for Pakistan.

You are funny, Pakistan never confessed they have regular army in those fortified high hill privileged hill tops when they were loosing suddenly their morally supported terrorist capturing hill top changed colour from Terrorist to PA, if you call their humiliating retreat as a victory its your call, after all Pakistan is the most important non-Nato Jihadi ally for your nation

I wonder if a thief bang you from behind in you house and run away, you will call him a hero

Even for a d!ck measurement you have to stand face to face, not showing your azz :accepted:

 

[average american]

I guess I just look at things a little different then most people, like the fact that the Mig 29 an the INS Vikramaditya are almost twins. The INS Vikramaditya was Laid down: December 1978 Launched: April 17, 1982 the Migs 29 First flight was 6 October 1977 Introduced August 1983 both were are over 30 this year. Vintage plane on a Classic boat if you were a collector in the USA..

 

[Defcon 1]

I guess I just look at things a little different then most people, like the fact that the Mig 29 an the INS Vikramaditya are almost twins the INS Vikramaditya
was Laid down: December 1978 Launched: April 17, 1982 the Migs 29 First flight was 6 October 1977 Introduced August 1983
both were are over 30 this year. Vintage plane on a Classic boat if you were a collector in the USA..

Another idiotic post. So your F16s which were introduced even before Mig 29 should be vintage as well by your logic. You are forgetting that we are using Mig 29k, which is a completely different version.

Another thing, you are still due to post proof which says that Pakistan had BVR capability during 1999. Actually you don't see things differently, you don't see them at all since you are blinded by your fake sense of superiority.

 

[average american]

Another idiotic post. So your F16s which were introduced even before Mig 29 should be vintage as well by your logic. You are forgetting that we are using Mig 29k, which is a completely different version.

Another thing, you are still due to post proof which says that Pakistan had BVR capability during 1999. Actually you don't see things differently, you don't see them at all since you are blinded by your fake sense of superiority.

I just thought it was interesting that both were 30 this year. The Enterprise is 50 and just be decomissioned,,,, you all should have bought that one its a real aircraft carrier.