Russian Special Forces

Akim

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

Moscow theater was good operation all the terrorist died, if medical services were careful most of the people would have been saved.
If gas composition is known was, then victims, would be far fewer what 134 people. SF, that fact did not simply take into account, that for two twenty-four hours without sleep, civil unprepared people, simply weakened. But another way to free a theater simply was not.
 

imd47

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

Look for the Discovery film about the capture of the theater on Dubrovka "Nord-Ost". I have not found it in the English version.
I see this film .It's pure shit.....
Read the analysis of the gign studies group and the benjamin nethanhyau speach about this ........ .

30 min of firefight inside the teather without civilian casualties , and all hostages died in the out of the teather or in the buses..... AND THE INCOMPETENCE BE ALPHA AND VYMPEL? sure.......
If gas composition is known was, then victims, would be far fewer what 134 people. SF, that fact did not simply take into account, that for two twenty-four hours without sleep, civil unprepared people, simply weakened. But another way to free a theater simply was not.
The gas composition be known----- opium based anestesic, if the mvd don't blocked all the acess to the highways and the adredalyne dosis be deployed to the hospitals.... all still alive
In dubrovka the mvd, the emercom , the medical services, and the fsb technical services do criminal incompetence in their actuation but no the tssn in their storming

Units like gign , geo or ucranian Alpha goign to the tssn to learn tactics of storming in mass hostage crysis......
 
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Armand2REP

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

12000 is low number for size of Rusia. They need to re build it.
VDV is far bigger than 12,000 today, about 30,000. That is number for GRU Spetsnaz.
 

Akim

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

The gas composition be known----- opium based anestesic, if the mvd don't blocked all the acess to the highways and the adredalyne dosis be deployed to the hospitals.... all still alive
In dubrovka the mvd, the emercom , the medical services, and the fsb technical services do criminal incompetence in their actuation but no the tssn in their storming

Units like gign , geo or ucranian Alpha goign to the tssn to learn tactics of storming in mass hostage crysis......
I remember these events, because looked it all in direct ether and my native Language-Russian, therefore me very little more information is accessible to. Many materials now on the Russian channels do not simply show. But more than 60% Russians consider however, that held was badly operation and rescue people. For us on channels about this is speak more openly - because there perished not only the Russians but also citizens of Ukraine and these facts nobody suppresses. I can find materials for you - if you own the Russian.
 

ALBY

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Look for the Discovery film about the capture of the theater on Dubrovka "Nord-Ost". I have not found it in the English version.
Discovery and Nat Geo are nothing but advertising medias of western
forces.If you go through vedios of deeds of both western and rest of worlds forces you could see the biasing clearly.As far as beslan and Moscow theatre attacks are considered no special force could much more than what vympel and alfa had done. In case of beslan nothing went according to the plan.even before the proposed attack of special forces some one from the local militia opened fire into the school.and that erupted the skirmishes and crack units along with panzer units had to rush in.plus the terrorist had already placed IEDs also.
In such a situation even delta force couldn't do much.
 

Akim

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

Discovery and Nat Geo are nothing but advertising medias of western
forces.If you go through vedios of deeds of both western and rest of worlds forces you could see the biasing clearly.As far as beslan and Moscow theatre attacks are considered no special force could much more than what vympel and alfa had done. In case of beslan nothing went according to the plan.even before the proposed attack of special forces some one from the local militia opened fire into the school.and that erupted the skirmishes and crack units along with panzer units had to rush in.plus the terrorist had already placed IEDs also.
In such a situation even delta force couldn't do much.
About Beslan, I nothing talked. That operated heroically and Special Forces protected children by itself. Those events it is impossible it was to control. In a difference from events in a theater in Moscow. The special troops operated correctly and professionally, but their leaders, ruined the a bunch of people - without a single shot.


Odessa. Russian consulate. In memory of children of Beslan in September, 4, 2004. ( There are and my flowers).
 
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Bhadra

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

VDV is far bigger than 12,000 today, about 30,000. That is number for GRU Spetsnaz.
Armand, that number seems too huge for any country including China to manage for Special Forces.

Unless you are including Police SWAT teams in special forces.
 

Razor

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

Armand, that number seems too huge for any country including China to manage for Special Forces.

Unless you are including Police SWAT teams in special forces.
VDV is the Russian Airborne Troops. It's a separate branch of the Russian Military. They number over 30,000. They are not classified as "Special Forces" but their training is of elite nature.
 

Bhadra

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

Even 30,000 airborne troops are too much after end of cold war. Where will Russians drop 30, 000 troops. In China or Afghanistan. 30 000 Airborne troops mean three to four Aiborne Divisions.
 

Akim

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

VDV is the Russian Airborne Troops. It's a separate branch of the Russian Military. They number over 30,000. They are not classified as "Special Forces" but their training is of elite nature.
By the way, at VDV today holiday!
 
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Razor

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

Even 30,000 airborne troops are too much after end of cold war. Where will Russians drop 30, 000 troops. In China or Afghanistan. 30 000 Airborne troops mean three to four Aiborne Divisions.
Yeah, 3 or 4 divisions. They have the largest airborne troops in the world.
But as I said before they are not spetsnaz. There are spetsnaz units within the VDV but the entire of VDV is not considered as spetsnaz.
 
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ALBY

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Armand, that number seems too huge for any country including China to manage for Special Forces.

Unless you are including Police SWAT teams in special forces.
Vdv is not special forces.they are just regular parachute regiments like our 5 6 7 para regiments.don't know about Chinese but we have about 20000 including para ,Marcos,SFF ,and garuds excluding Nsg.And spetsnaz is an umbrella organisation of all SF units including GRU, alfa ,vympel etc.so 12000 is not an exaggerated score.but 30000 for VdV is some what very high.
 

Bhadra

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

@akim
why are they in blue berets ?
Is that part of their dress?
They are are placing three four batches on berets?
 

Akim

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

@akim
why are they in blue berets ?
Is that part of their dress?
They are are placing three four batches on berets?
It a symbol yet from soviet times - is a piece of form. A blue beret means the particle of sky.
 

boris

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

Good move, was very much needed.

Yes VDV aren't SF units,as such Spetsnaz is a blanket term.GRU,Alfa,Vympel are what I would equate to Western Tier 1 and Tier 2 SF units like Green Berets,SEALs,Delta Force and DEVGRU.

Among'st all the Russian ones the GRU Spetsnaz is said to be the deadliest and their results in Afghanistan made them feared among the Mujahideen.

In the Indian context 20000 is a big big number I don't think we have that many.Counting in the 8 Army SF units(1,2,3,4,9,10,11,21),MARCOS,SFF,Special Group(R&AW) still doesn't seem to add up to 20000.We still need work to do in terms of SF.I do remember asking a former SEAL what he thought about MARCOS he said that they aren't consider at the same level as DEVGRU and SBS.We are evolving and hopefully will get better in all aspects.
 

Akim

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Re: Russia to re-build its special force units

VDV are not the SF in the general understanding. It is high-mobile troops. They as well as parachutists are thrown down from air in the rear of enemy, but in a difference from them equipped by a heavy armament ( by tanks, artillery, IFV(BMD), self-propelled mortars, by complexes air DEFENCE) and able not only to retain positions, to approach of the it forces but also is independent develop an offensive.
 

ALBY

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Good move, was very much needed.

Yes VDV aren't SF units,as such Spetsnaz is a blanket term.GRU,Alfa,Vympel are what I would equate to Western Tier 1 and Tier 2 SF units like Green Berets,SEALs,Delta Force and DEVGRU.

Among'st all the Russian ones the GRU Spetsnaz is said to be the deadliest and their results in Afghanistan made them feared among the Mujahideen.

In the Indian context 20000 is a big big number I don't think we have that many.Counting in the 8 Army SF units(1,2,3,4,9,10,11,21),MARCOS,SFF,Special Group(R&AW) still doesn't seem to add up to 20000.We still need work to do in terms of SF.I do remember asking a former SEAL what he thought about MARCOS he said that they aren't consider at the same level as DEVGRU and SBS.We are evolving and hopefully will get better in all aspects.
20000 is not that much a higher number for India.8 para SF battalions will contribute about 6000 combatants plus Marcos have 2000 and garuds have equal or less than that ,SFF during its peak days had around 10000 according to the reports and NSG has another 7500 under its command.
Coming to the capabilities of my friend who is Navy tells that the two years training is really a hell for any one and the ones who will come out of it successfully will be second to no one.
Plus all of their missions are highly classified too.they could be lagging behind the equipment and gear compared with SEALs or Israeli marine SoF but not in terms of operational capability.
 

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Russian SOBR (Special Rapid Response Unit) on a training drill.

Their gear includes :-
Zsh-1-2m helmet
Modul body armor
ANA black vest
ANA Specnaz Black suit
BZT-75 Ballistic shield
APS underwater Assault Rifle

Aware of the limitations of APS, Russians are now making efforts for an amphibious assault rifle that will be effective/accurate both under water as well as on shore.
First the common ammo was reached upon - 5.45x39 PSP catridge.

The bullet protrudes down the cartridge case all the way to its base .... :hmm: [haven't heard a lot of these designs]

Then the weapon was designed, keeping the A-91M bullpup assault rifle as a starting point.
The result was ADS (АДС - Автомат Двухсредный Специальный - Avtomat Dual-medium, Special) the amphibious Assault Rifle.

Retains from Bullpup :-
Its layout, gas operated action with rotary bolt locking and forward ejection through the short tube running above and to the right of the barrel.

Changes applied :-
Some parts of the weapon were necessarily redesigned and materials revised to work reliably when submerged in water, gas system was modified with addition of the environment selector ("air / water").
Integral 40mm grenade launcher (which fires VOG-25 type 'caseless' grenades using additional front trigger inside the trigger guard) is fitted with removable barrel which can be removed when it is not needed by the mission profile.
Muzzle of the barrel is threaded to accept muzzle brake / compensator, tactical silencer or blank-firing adapter. Rifle is fitted with adjustable iron sights, and an integral carrying handle is provided with Picatinny type rail on the top to accept various day and night optical sights.

The ADS can fire any standard issue 5.45x39 ammunition (ball, tracer, AP) when above the water, with accuracy and effectiveness similar, if not better than of AK-74 / AK-74M general issue assault rifle.

When submerged and loaded with 5.45 PSP ammunition, the ADS is said to be under extensive field trials by undisclosed units of Russian Naval special forces.
If adopted, it will replace APS underwater weapons and, possibly, some AK-74M general issue assault rifles in service with Russian Navy special operation units and other Russian special forces, which might be engaged in underwater operations (security, counter-terrorism in the sea, etc).

Sources -
Russian Military Blog
Modern Firearms - ADS dual medium

Regards,
Virendra
 

cobra commando

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Spetsnaz Special: The Legendary Kalashnikov

The Kalashnikov rifle needs no introduction. In this documentary we'll show you its origins, how it's made and tested, who uses it, and much more. You'll be taken to the Izhmash manufacturing plant where the rifles are assembled, see elite soldiers from Russia's Interior Ministry train with the world-renowned weapon, and hear American war veterans recall their experiences with the gun.

[video=youtube_share;IPF5IyN3BJs]http://youtu.be/IPF5IyN3BJs[/video]
 

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