Russia Ukraine War 2022

[Kumaoni]

Mig21 creamed F101 starfighters in 71

Mig21 vs F16 comes to mind.
That's Bharatvarsh for you, firangs. Where even myths are about warfare.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Did Russia stop making Pantsirs?

Did Russia protect the 55K6E with Pantsir? Did Russia engaged a single Storm Shadow with Pantsir?

Answer this questions and you'd get the answer

 

[Craigs]

Did Russia protect the 55K6E with Pantsir? Did Russia engaged a single Storm Shadow with Pantsir?

Answer this questions and you'd get the answer

Nope did not get an answer. Did they stop making it? Maybe there is a shortage but it can be made up. That is the advantage of slow walking an SMO. Russia will have enough time to plug gaps when they open up.

Also a command module is the most easily replaceable part of the battery (considering only equipment not the men).

 

[Lonewarrior]

Mig21 creamed F101 starfighters in 71

Again, if you think F-16 is going to get downed in a dogfight you're simply showing how naive you are

1. F-16s would force the Russian CAPs to fire their missiles, especially the Axeheads from even further distance.

Even now the MiGs and Su simply fire Axeheads from way within the border and break away...but it simply makes the missile less effective because of the distance and presence of so many ground based radar. But now the Russians pilots would start to have paranoia about F-16s and AMRAAMs resulting in them firing from the max range of 400km; further diminishing the performance. (If this sounds weird then remember what happened during Pakistani raid on our side, they're sacred of SAM so much that they dropped bombs from as far as possible resulting in poor accuracy)

2. F-16s would seriously mess up the Russian air defence network.

Even now the condition of Russian ADN is not what they've been boasting about since ages; Putin admitting shortcomings, Storm Shadows flying unchallenged, SAMs getting targeted. And all this is happening without a single Wild Weasels taking place from Ukrainian side. With simply dialing in frequencies in HARM before flight they are able to counter the most advanced AD system...imagine what would happen when proper SEAD and DEAD starts to take place.

In cold war the upper hand in SAM technology was with Russia. So to counter this USAF invested heavily in SEAD and DEAD capabilities. A single pair of F-16 with HARMs, EW pod and MALDs can wreck havoc on ADs.

3. This brings to the third point. Russians would respond to this by either switching their radars off or moving ADs further inside the border. This would deprive other HVTs of proper air cover. JDAMs, JSOWs, SDBs and GBUs all will start slowly chipping away important assets.

The whole front line would be in a dilemma; if the move in things like Buks - Pantsir to protect the frontline they'd get engaged in Wild Weasels and if move back then to have AD assets for long run they'd lose HVTs to PGMs.

4. The Black Sea fleet would be start to move back. This would happen even before any attack just by the psychological effect of F-16s armed with Harpoons and drones providing decoys. They've seen what happened to Moskva with such limited resources...now they can project force in much more refined way.

See I gave you four points on how F-16s would affect and none of them included the word "dogfight".


(PS : Lijiye @SwordOfDarkness , aapke liye DRDO waala LoneWarrior)

 

[Craigs]

Again, if you think F-16 is going to get downed in a dogfight you're simply showing how naive you are

1. F-16s would force the Russian CAPs to fire their missiles, especially the Axeheads from even further distance.

Even now the MiGs and Su simply fire Axeheads from way within the border and break away...but it simply makes the missile less effective because of the distance and presence of so many ground based radar. But now the Russians pilots would start to have paranoia about F-16s and AMRAAMs resulting in them firing from the max range of 400km; further diminishing the performance. (If this sounds weird then remember what happened during Pakistani raid on our side, they're sacred of SAM so much that they dropped bombs from as far as possible resulting in poor accuracy)

2. F-16s would seriously mess up the Russian air defence network.

Even now the condition of Russian ADN is not what they've been boasting about since ages; Putin admitting shortcomings, Storm Shadows flying unchallenged, SAMs getting targeted. And all this is happening without a single Wild Weasels taking place from Ukrainian side. With simply dialing in frequencies in HARM before flight they are able to counter the most advanced AD system...imagine what would happen when proper SEAD and DEAD starts to take place.

In cold war the upper hand in SAM technology was with Russia. So to counter this USAF invested heavily in SEAD and DEAD capabilities. A single pair of F-16 with HARMs, EW pod and MALDs can wreck havoc on ADs.

3. This brings to the third point. Russians would respond to this by either switching their radars off or moving ADs further inside the border. This would deprive other HVTs of proper air cover. JDAMs, JSOWs, SDBs and GBUs all will start slowly chipping away important assets.

The whole front line would be in a dilemma; if the move in things like Buks - Pantsir to protect the frontline they'd get engaged in Wild Weasels and if move back then to have AD assets for long run they'd lose HVTs to PGMs.

4. The Black Sea fleet would be start to move back. This would happen even before any attack just by the psychological effect of F-16s armed with Harpoons and drones providing decoys. They've seen what happened to Moskva with such limited resources...now they can project force in much more refined way.

See I gave you four points on how F-16s would affect and none of them included the word "dogfight".


(PS : Lijiye @SwordOfDarkness , aapke liye DRDO waala LoneWarrior)

Why would F-16s be any different than Mig-29s that Ukraine already had? Also, who is going to be flying the F-16s? Do you think F-16s can achieve much without AWACS? How many brushed street cleaners does Ukraine have?

 

[Kumaoni]

Again, if you think F-16 is going to get downed in a dogfight you're simply showing how naive you are

1. F-16s would force the Russian CAPs to fire their missiles, especially the Axeheads from even further distance.

Even now the MiGs and Su simply fire Axeheads from way within the border and break away...but it simply makes the missile less effective because of the distance and presence of so many ground based radar. But now the Russians pilots would start to have paranoia about F-16s and AMRAAMs resulting in them firing from the max range of 400km; further diminishing the performance. (If this sounds weird then remember what happened during Pakistani raid on our side, they're sacred of SAM so much that they dropped bombs from as far as possible resulting in poor accuracy)

2. F-16s would seriously mess up the Russian air defence network.

Even now the condition of Russian ADN is not what they've been boasting about since ages; Putin admitting shortcomings, Storm Shadows flying unchallenged, SAMs getting targeted. And all this is happening without a single Wild Weasels taking place from Ukrainian side. With simply dialing in frequencies in HARM before flight they are able to counter the most advanced AD system...imagine what would happen when proper SEAD and DEAD starts to take place.

In cold war the upper hand in SAM technology was with Russia. So to counter this USAF invested heavily in SEAD and DEAD capabilities. A single pair of F-16 with HARMs, EW pod and MALDs can wreck havoc on ADs.

3. This brings to the third point. Russians would respond to this by either switching their radars off or moving ADs further inside the border. This would deprive other HVTs of proper air cover. JDAMs, JSOWs, SDBs and GBUs all will start slowly chipping away important assets.

The whole front line would be in a dilemma; if the move in things like Buks - Pantsir to protect the frontline they'd get engaged in Wild Weasels and if move back then to have AD assets for long run they'd lose HVTs to PGMs.

4. The Black Sea fleet would be start to move back. This would happen even before any attack just by the psychological effect of F-16s armed with Harpoons and drones providing decoys. They've seen what happened to Moskva with such limited resources...now they can project force in much more refined way.

See I gave you four points on how F-16s would affect and none of them included the word "dogfight".


(PS : Lijiye @SwordOfDarkness , aapke liye DRDO waala LoneWarrior)

Mig21 ain’t even in the same generation as F-16, so no disagreements. I’m just stating that F104 got its guts blown out by MiGs in ‘71, and this happened nowhere else. It’s not Russian technology but training of Indian pilots which is quite underrated by scholars and military analysts

 

[Lonewarrior]

Nope did not get an answer. Did they stop making it? Maybe there is a shortage but it can be made up. That is the advantage of slow walking an SMO. Russia will have enough time to plug gaps when they open up.

Also a command module is the most easily replaceable part of the battery (considering only equipment not the men).

They slowed down the production because lack of critical components...so ya, they can make but not like how they're making tanks in World War Two.

"A command module is most easily replaceable part of a battery"
I can just laugh at this statement. Buddy, if Command Module are the most easily replaceable part of a battery then what's the launchers? Or the ancillary equipment?

The easiest part to replace in a battery is generator; because you can always get COTS one.
The second easiest are support platforms like replenishment vehicles and reloaders; coz again COTS.
Third easiest are launchers; coz they are made in surplus.
Then comes command vehicles; these are hard to replace coz they've identification data, encryption devices and perhaps more importantly...they are limited in number.
Lastly radar...which obviously are expensive

 

[RocketMan]

I sincerely hope our Jernails are learning a lesson or two from this conflict!

 

[Lonewarrior]

I sincerely hope our Jernails are learning a lesson or two from this conflict!

Nope

 

[RocketMan]

India is soon to become 3rd largest economy on the planet & we're stuck with sad ass hardware from 60s/70s and doctrine from 40s ! May God help us ..

 

[Craigs]

They slowed down the production because lack of critical components...so ya, they can make but not like how they're making tanks in World War Two.

"A command module is most easily replaceable part of a battery"
I can just laugh at this statement. Buddy, if Command Module are the most easily replaceable part of a battery then what's the launchers? Or the ancillary equipment?

The easiest part to replace in a battery is generator; because you can always get COTS one.
The second easiest are support platforms like replenishment vehicles and reloaders; coz again COTS.
Third easiest are launchers; coz they are made in surplus.
Then comes command vehicles; these are hard to replace coz they've identification data, encryption devices and perhaps more importantly...they are limited in number.
Lastly radar...which obviously are expensive

Moron, a command module is nothing more than a bunch of computer terminals and some communication equipment and a generator to run it all. Thats it. If it was a HARM that targeted it probably because the command module was transmitting. However, since we did not see any evidence of the radar taken out I would assume the pantsir protecting it did its job.

Other components like generators, ancillary vehicles (S-400 does not have any as it is not field reloaded) cannot be detected by HARM so they are safe.

Also, In WW2 the mass mfg of tanks started much later. So here too the ramp up is just happening.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Why would F-16s be any different than Mig-29s that Ukraine already had?

Because you know...teknologi

Pre-programmed HARMs for just one prior known target Vs programming HARMs on the go for whatever pops on the screen
Blindly dropping JDAMs Vs actively guiding one via Link 16
Not having any LGBs Vs whole range of GBUs
Relying on encrypted radios for NATO coms Vs dedicated Link 16

Are you seeing the differences?

Also, who is going to be flying the F-16s?

All Ukrainians pilots having good English and who belong in the top of the MiG-29 pilots list. Coz these pilots would already be well versed in the ways of dogfighting, they'll just need the "familiarization" of a new jet.

Do you think F-16s can achieve much without AWACS?

And do you really think as of NATO has not provided Ukrainians with AWACS data? You have no idea how many different ASW planes and UAVs and AWACS remain on station around Ukraine...now they'd be sharing their data in real time with the F-16 instead of sending it to some NATO country and then using radios.

How many brushed street cleaners does Ukraine have?

Enough to still have a functional aur force despite clashing with the second most powerful one

 

[maximus777]

Ruski AF will have to join the party even at the risk of losing a few fights. If not F16 will make things hard for Ruskis to sustain this one unless they go all badass like in WW2.

 

[Craigs]

Because you know...teknologi

Pre-programmed HARMs for just one prior known target Vs programming HARMs on the go for whatever pops on the screen
Blindly dropping JDAMs Vs actively guiding one via Link 16
Not having any LGBs Vs whole range of GBUs
Relying on encrypted radios for NATO coms Vs dedicated Link 16

Are you seeing the differences?

All Ukrainians pilots having good English and who belong in the top of the MiG-29 pilots list. Coz these pilots would already be well versed in the ways of dogfighting, they'll just need the "familiarization" of a new jet.

And do you really think as of NATO has not provided Ukrainians with AWACS data? You have no idea how many different ASW planes and UAVs and AWACS remain on station around Ukraine...now they'd be sharing their data in real time with the F-16 instead of sending it to some NATO country and then using radios.

Enough to still have a functional aur force despite clashing with the second most powerful one

Hehehehhehehehe wait and watch. I read many similar arguments in favor of Javelin, NLAW, Patriots etc. Brochure capabilities do not translate to actual field performance.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Moron

I'm listening

If you think that's you can replace a bunch of computer in military because they're a bunch of "computer" then the jokes on you.

If it was a HARM that targeted it probably because the command module was transmitting. However, since we did not see any evidence of the radar taken out I would assume the pantsir protecting it did its job.

If the Pantsir had done its job then there won't be any blood on the 55K6E door

S-400 does not have any as it is not field reloaded

 

[Lonewarrior]

Hehehehhehehehe wait and watch. I read many similar arguments in favor of Javelin, NLAW, Patriots etc. Brochure capabilities do not translate to actual field performance.

Can't agree more
S-400 manufacturers also claimed it can destroy everything from SARM to F-22 to B-2 to what not in their brochure...and see, a lone 55K6E is now laying somewhere.

If you still think NLAW, Javelin and Patriots have not done their part then you're simply being an ostrich.
Maybe when sales of these systems would increase compared to their Russian contemporaries then you'd realise

 

[Craigs]

I'm listening

If you think that's you can replace a bunch of computer in military because they're a bunch of "computer" then the jokes on you.

If the Pantsir had done its job then there won't be any blood on the 55K6E door

View attachment 208324

Bunch of computer is a bunch of computers military or not. In fact military computers are by definition simpler and probably Russia already makes every single component for it.

I stand corrected about the field reloading aspect. But still not convinced that it is done very often. The launcher can just be replaced with a new one.

 

[Sarjen]

By the list of countries that operate 55K6E

... Show mw a single proof it was part of S400.. this can also be used by Pantsir or tor..

are you really expecting Russians to Deploy S400 right on the frontlines ???

By the way say good buy to Neo con NATO officers who were taken out in their fukcing bunkers

 

[Craigs]

Can't agree more
S-400 manufacturers also claimed it can destroy everything from SARM to F-22 to B-2 to what not in their brochure...and see, a lone 55K6E is now laying somewhere.

If you still think NLAW, Javelin and Patriots have not done their part then you're simply being an ostrich.
Maybe when sales of these systems would increase compared to their Russian contemporaries then you'd realise

A lone command module vs at least 2 Patriot deployments completely destroyed. Yeah I think Russia will be ok with that transaction.

NLAW Javelins and Patriots failed in their entirety - totally not justified by the high price. USA has many captive customers like Saudis, Koreans, Japanese and sales will always be high. But sales and performance are two different things as the Saudis recently found out.

 

[Lonewarrior]

I stand corrected

Then there's no point in arguing with you by providing pictures and citations

You're always right