Russia Ukraine War 2022

Who will win this war?.


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fooLIam

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I like the smell of weakening of Nuclear deterrence in the morning.. No one this important in US would have talked like this in response to Putin's nuclear threats, 6 months ago..

Meh, both are playing. But thinks this way if Russia is cornered who going to loose more Russia or USA . people who have too much to loss are usually “coward”.If nuclear exchange does happens west collectively is going to loose more.
 

The Shrike

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No one denies the military might of USA. In fact the only country that can have some good prob of standing up to this bully is Russia.
Once Russia is gone we will all be buttfvcked without any respite. Prepare your brown a55 for colonial 2.0.
Dude Calm down - Russia is not protecting us, if anything they were pulling us down. Being dependent on weaker countries like Russia (yes I believe they are weaker than us) was doing us no good. In the longterm we will come out of it much stronger after kicking the Russian tin can weapons importing addiction (and anyways we don't have much economic ties to begin with). In the next couple of decades US and China will fight for global supremacy, our focus during that time should be to build up our own economic and military power, deal with our many internal issue, while fending off any open hostilities by the Chinese. It's not going to be the end of the world, relax.
 

JBH22

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Dude Calm down - Russia is not protecting us, if anything they were pulling us down. Being dependent on weaker countries like Russia (yes I believe they are weaker than us) was doing us no good. In the longterm we will come out of it much stronger after kicking the Russian tin can weapons importing addiction (and anyways we don't have much economic ties to begin with). In the next couple of decades US and China will fight for global supremacy, our focus during that time should be to build up our own economic and military power, deal with our many internal issue, while fending off any open hostilities by the Chinese. It's not going to be the end of the world, relax.
Russia by taking the brunt of their attention relieves you. Like it or not. It acts as a counter balance. Once it is done, they will turn their attention to India. As it Nuland already stated they want to make contact at sub national level at their meet with DMK.

We need a multi polar world not one where bully comes and tries to enforce standard of society.
 

Master Chief

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Meh, both are playing. But thinks this way if Russia is cornered who going to loose more Russia or USA . people who have too much to loss are usually “coward”.If nuclear exchange does happens west collectively is going to loose more.
We will have to test that.. Territorial expansion using the nuclear umbrella has to be resisted.. If Russia can, let it conquer Ukraine with conventional means.. You never know who is going to loose more in a nuclear exchange,.. until a nuclear exchange happens..

It's really good, that US has conveyed that it is fine with Ukraine hitting newly annexed territories with American weapons..

Note: It is not US responsibility to take Putin out of a hole, he himself dug for himself.. ALSO, Russia is still far from losing in the conventional war..
 

fooLIam

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We will have to test that.. Territorial expansion using the nuclear umbrella has to be resisted.. If Russia can, let it conquer Ukraine with conventional means.. You never know who is going to loose more in a nuclear exchange,.. until a nuclear exchange happens..

It's really good, that US has conveyed that it is fine with Ukraine hitting newly annexed territories with American weapons..

Note: It is not US responsibility to take Putin out of a hole, he himself dug for himself.. ALSO, Russia is still far from losing in the conventional war..
If nuclear exchange does happen which is going to loose more.
West: from leaders of worlds financial system,technology & industry ,military superpower (basically thekedar of world ),from where they can even export their degeneracy To pile of radioactive wasteland where no body going set a foot.
Russia: a shadow of former superpower whose demographics is also in red. Their biggest exports used to be commodities.
 

Trial By Fire

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Ah, it is very fascinating indeed to see that the opinions of David Petraeus, a convicted criminal and adulterer are being considered here to be the ultimate gospel about what the Great Satan is thinking and how they aren't bothered about nukes at all and can destroy Russia in a matter of minutes. Is this the same David Petraeus who sold government and military top-secrets to a woman he was sleeping with? Why, indeed it is! Let's look a little more into David Petraeus' long and illustrious career and perhaps people may decide for themselves how much his opinions are worth:

In 2007, Adm. William Fallon, commander of CENTCOM with four decades of active-duty experience behind him, quickly took the measure of Petraeus, who was one of his subordinates while implementing a “surge” of over 30,000 U.S. troops into Iraq.

Several sources reported that Fallon was sickened by Petraeus’s unctuous pandering to ingratiate himself. Fallon is said to have been so turned off by all the accolades in the flowery introduction given him by Petraeus that he called him to his face “an ass-kissing little chickenshit,” adding, “I hate people like that.” Sadly, Petraeus’s sycophancy is not uncommon among general officers. Uncommon was Fallon’s outspoken candor.

The past decade has shown that obsequiousness to those above him and callousness toward others are two of Petraeus’s most notable character traits. They go along with his lack of military acumen and his dishonesty as revealed in his lying to the FBI about handing over top-secret notebooks to his biographer/lover, an “indiscretion” that would have landed a less well-connected person in jail but instead got him only a mild slap on the wrist (via a misdemeanor guilty plea).

Indeed, Petraeus, the epitome of a “political general,” represents some of the slimiest depths of the Washington “swamp”. Petraeus cares desperately about the feelings of his fellow elites but shows shocking disdain for the suffering of other human beings who are not so important.

In early 2011 in Afghanistan, Petraeus shocked aides to then-President Hamid Karzai after many children were burned to death in a “coalition” attack in northeastern Afghanistan by suggesting that Afghan parents may have burned their own children to exaggerate their claims of civilian casualties and discredit the Great Satan, reported The Washington Post, citing two participants at the meeting.

“Killing 60 people, and then blaming the killing on those same people, rather than apologizing for any deaths? This is inhuman,” one Afghan official said. “This is a really terrible situation.”

Yet, on other occasions, the politically savvy Petraeus can be a paragon of sensitivity – like when he is in danger of getting crosswise with the Israel Lobby.

Never did Petraeus’s fawning shine through with more brilliance, than when an (unintentionally disclosed) email exchange showed him groveling before arch-neocon Max Boot, beseeching Boot’s help in fending off charges that Petraeus was “anti-Israel” because his prepared testimony to a congressional committee included the no-brainer observations that Israeli-Palestinian hostility presents “distinct challenges to our ability to advance our interests” and that “this conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of US favoritism for Israel. … Meanwhile, al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support.”

So, telling the truth (perhaps accidentally in prepared testimony) made Petraeus squirm with fear about offending the powerful Israel Lobby, but he apparently didn’t hesitate to lie to FBI agents when he was caught in a tight spot for sharing highly sensitive intelligence with Paula Broadwell, his mistress/biographer.

But, again, Petraeus realized that it helps to have influential friends. A court gave him a slap on the wrist with a sentence of two years probation and a fine of $100,000 – which is less than he usually makes for a single speaking engagement.

As a military strategist or even a trainer of troops, Petraeus has been an unparalleled disaster. Yes, the corporate media always runs interference for Official Washington’s favorite general. But that does not equate with genuine success.

The Iraq “surge,” which Petraeus oversaw, was misrepresented in the corporate media as a huge victory – because it was credited with a brief dip in the level of violence at the cost of some 1,000 American lives (and those of many more Iraqis) – but the “surge” failed its principal goal of buying time to heal the rift between Shiites and Sunnis, a division that ultimately led to the emergence of the Islamic State (or ISIS).

Then, in early 2014, the crackerjack Iraqi troops whom Petraeus bragged about training ran away from Mosul, leaving their modern U.S.-provided weapons behind for the Islamic State’s jihadists to play with.

In part because of that collapse – the Obama administration was dragged into another Mideast war, spilling across Iraq and Syria and adding to the droves of refugees pouring into Europe, a crisis that is now destabilizing the European Union.

You might have thought that the combination of military failures and scandalous behavior would have ended David Petraeus’s “government service,” but he has never lost his skill at putting his finger to the wind.

More miscalculations in the Middle East would be right up Petraeus’s alley. He played an important role in facilitating the emergence of the Islamic State by his too-clever-by-half policy of co-opting some Sunni tribes with promises of shared power in Baghdad and with lots of money, and then simply looking the other way as the U.S.-installed Shia government in Baghdad ditched the promises.

The so-called “surges” of troops into Iraq and Afghanistan are particularly gross examples of the way American soldiers have been used as expendable pawns by ambitious generals like Petraeus and ambitious politicians like former Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

The problem is that overweening personal ambition can end up getting a lot of people killed. In the speciously glorified first “surge,” President George W. Bush sent more than 30,000 additional troops into Iraq in early 2007. During the period of the “surge,” about 1,000 US troops died.

There was a similar American death toll during President Barack Obama’s “surge” of another 30,000 troops into Afghanistan in early 2010, a shift toward a counterinsurgency strategy that had been pressed on Obama by Petraeus, Gates and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Despite the loss of those 1,000 additional US soldiers, the counterinsurgency “surge” had little effect on the course of the Afghan War.

The bloody chaos that continues in Iraq today and in the war in Afghanistan was entirely predictable. Indeed, it was predicted by those of us able to spread some truth around via the Internet, while being blacklisted by the fawning corporate media, which cheered on the “surges” and their chief architect, David Petraeus.

In other words, US strategy – much of it guided by David Petraeus – continues to strengthen Al Qaeda, which – through its Nusra affiliate and its Islamic State spin-off – occupied large swaths of Iraq and Syria.

On Jan. 10, 2007, Bush formally unveiled the bait-and-switch, announcing the “surge” of 30,000 additional troops, a mission that would be overseen by Gates and Petraeus. Bush did acknowledge that there would be considerable loss of life in the year ahead as US troops were assigned to create enough stability for Iraq’s Shiite and Sunni factions to reach an accommodation.

At least, he got the loss-of-life part right. Around 1,000 US troops died during the “surge” along with many more Iraqis. But Bush, Cheney, Petraeus, and Gates apparently deemed that cost a small price to pay for enabling them to blame a successor administration for the inevitable withdrawal from America’s failed war of aggression.

The gambit worked especially well for Gates and Petraeus. Amid glowing mainstream media press clippings about the “successful surge” and “victory at last” in Iraq, Gates was hailed as a new “wise man” and Petraeus was the military genius who pulled victory from the jaws of defeat. Their reputations were such that President Obama concluded that he had no choice but to keep them on, Gates as Defense Secretary and Petraeus as Obama’s top general in the Middle East.

Petraeus then oversaw the “surge” in Afghanistan and landed the job of CIA director, where Petraeus reportedly played a major role in arming up the Syrian rebels in pursuit of another “regime change,” this time in Syria.

Petraeus even said, at the time when the Great Satan left Afghanistan that the US should CONTINUE STAYING in Afghanistan and that they can somehow still beat the Taliban.

Although Petraeus’s CIA tenure ended in disgrace in November 2012 when his dangerous liaison with Paula Broadwell was disclosed, his many allies in Official Washington’s powerful neocon community even now push him on different administrations as the man to serve as Secretary of State.

Now, you can decide for yourself how much this man's words are worth, indeed whether he believes them himself or not.
 

Ylside

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AP reporters recently visited liberated Izyum and spoke with locals about the torture and abuse which they had to suffer under the Russian occupation

 

kittoo420

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While the war is far from over and there is high level of propaganda, the general picture in last month or so is not good at all for Russia. It's one thing that Ukrainians try offensives, that is expected. It is another for Russians to seemingly cede territory on multiple fronts! And all we hear is 'wait till the mobilize men reach the front', 'wait till winter comes', 'wait till Russia really gets serious'. We've been waiting since quite some time.

I am a firm believer of 'Occam's razor' (or duck principle, as some you like to call it)- that the simplest explanation is always the right one, unless convincing evidence is provided otherwise. And the simplest explanation here seems to be that Russia simply isn't able to fight.

Now from India's point of view, if this inability to fight is because of the men, that's fine. But if it's because of the weapons, then not good for us as we are saddled with many Russian systems.
 

Master Chief

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If nuclear exchange does happen which is going to loose more.
West: from leaders of worlds financial system,technology & industry ,military superpower (basically thekedar of world ),from where they can even export their degeneracy To pile of radioactive wasteland where no body going set a foot.
Russia: a shadow of former superpower whose demographics is also in red. Their biggest exports used to be commodities.
If a nuclear exchange happens its better for the US that it happens now with Ukraine serving as American cannon fodder, than, after Russia has absorbed Ukraine, when Ukrainians will be used as Russian cannon fodder in the Baltics.. and when Russia will have increased the strategic depth of its core European areas.. Russia today lacks the strategic depth of the USSR.. Even before the first Russian nuke lands in Washington, because American bombers can launch nukes so close to Russian territory, the logistical hub and capital of Moscow will already be hit with multiple nukes .. much of Kremlin leadership decapitated.. and all of Russian wunderwaffe ( which might not even work )won't help.. Ultimately what matters is not what happens to your neighbor, but what happens to you and your children..

The prospect of extermination of Russian civilization is not something that Russia takes lightly, just because it's civilization is poorer than Western civilization..
 

Varzone

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This is a few km south of Zolota balka which was confirmed liberated yesterday, haven't seen anything from Dudchany(which is further south) yet though.
I saw a column of ukros stalled, russian drones and artillery were attacking them.
They are taking casualities there but advancing along the river.
 

JBH22

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And they wonder why they don't have allies...
UsSR collapsed once Ukraine and Belarus pulled out. Not because other CIS state.
In this 2020s world Russia with its puny 150mio population would not matter much, but when you add Belarus and Ukraine it comes to some 200mio people.
Putin sees himself as the guy who would rekindle Russian empire strength. I doubt he wants USSR back with central Asian state as unnecessary weight.
USA, India, China and to some lower extent Turkey have larger aspirational roles. Putin want his Russian spread across ex ussr back. To make Russia great again.
 

Varzone

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UsSR collapsed once Ukraine and Belarus pulled out. Not because other CIS state.
In this 2020s world Russia with its puny 150mio population would not matter much, but when you add Belarus and Ukraine it comes to some 200mio people.
Putin sees himself as the guy who would rekindle Russian empire strength. I doubt he wants USSR back with central Asian state as unnecessary weight.
USA, India, China and to some lower extent Turkey have larger aspirational roles. Putin want his Russian spread across ex ussr back. To make Russia great again.
He has some lofty ideas but preparation? I'm all for imperialisms but there should be something to back it up.
It's like a kid saying I'll go to US after graduating from IIT but can't even crack JEE main exam.

By the look of things, he is going to make Russia collapse again.
 

fooLIam

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If a nuclear exchange happens its better for the US that it happens now with Ukraine serving as American cannon fodder, than, after Russia has absorbed Ukraine, when Ukrainians will be used as Russian cannon fodder in the Baltics.. and when Russia will have increased the strategic depth of its core European areas.. Russia today lacks the strategic depth of the USSR.. Even before the first Russian nuke lands in Washington, because American bombers can launch nukes so close to Russian territory, the logistical hub and capital of Moscow will already be hit with multiple nukes .. much of Kremlin leadership decapitated.. and all of Russian wunderwaffe ( which might not even work )won't help.. Ultimately what matters is not what happens to your neighbor, but what happens to you and your children..

The prospect of extermination of Russian civilization is not something that Russia takes lightly, just because it's civilization is poorer than Western civilization..
you are saying as if if Russia gets nuked first by America ,Russia won’t be able to do anything to USA. Is that how it works ?
 

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