Russia says Mohammed cartoon publication illegal

[Neo]

What is interesting is that you as a supposedly peaceful Muslim still identifies non-Muslims as Kafirs.

I donot speak for all muslims but this is my understanding:

We can call the present day non-Muslims as kafirs if we take into consideration the fact that the Qur'an has used the word kafir in two senses.

1. People who have denied the truth regardless of the fact that this denial is deliberate or because of some other reason (example of this usage can be seen-in the opening verses of Surah Qaf).

2. People who have denied the truth deliberately and have thereby come worthy of God's punishment and condemnation (example of this usage can be seen in Surah Kafirun).

 

[Neo]

That is too simplistic statement... what do you think the current PA operations in KP are not harming the innocents ??

Collateral damage. Civilians have been asked to clear the area and take refuge in designated IDP camps.

 

[thethinker]

I donot speak for all muslims but this is my understanding:

We can call the present day non-Muslims as kafirs if we take into consideration the fact that the Qur'an has used the word kafir in two senses.

1. People who have denied the truth regardless of the fact that this denial is deliberate or because of some other reason (example of this usage can be seen-in the opening verses of Surah Qaf).

2. People who have denied the truth deliberately and have thereby come worthy of God's punishment and condemnation (example of this usage can be seen in Surah Kafirun).

Thanks for demonstrating that you consider outsiders as non-believers or not equally worthy.

 

[Neo]

Thanks for demonstrating that you consider outsiders as non-believers or not equally worthy.

Correction: Non believers of Allah and His Prophet and unworthy of His mercy on the day of judgement.
As humans, we remain equal.

 

[bose]

I donot speak for all muslims but this is my understanding:

We can call the present day non-Muslims as kafirs if we take into consideration the fact that the Qur'an has used the word kafir in two senses.

1. People who have denied the truth regardless of the fact that this denial is deliberate or because of some other reason (example of this usage can be seen-in the opening verses of Surah Qaf).

2. People who have denied the truth deliberately and have thereby come worthy of God's punishment and condemnation (example of this usage can be seen in Surah Kafirun).

A direct attack on the Non Muslims... delibarate or otherwise... This is what I was mentioning earlier --> WE V/S THEM...

What will the Muslims do if the Non Muslims make it a NO GO similarly as the depiction of Mohammad in Cartoons ?? Why this double standard ?

 

[sydsnyper]

Do you realize that you are toeing the same understanding of the koran that the jihadis use.... including the ones who killed the children in peshawar.

When someone with this understanding owns an ak, and sees a crowd of 'kafiirs' (basically the most of us here), I do not see any surprise in what follows.

Correction: Non believers of Allah and His Prophet and unworthy of His mercy on the day of judgement.
As humans, we remain equal.

 

[bose]

Collateral damage. Civilians have been asked to clear the area and take refuge in designated IDP camps.

Those who are comming forward to attack Pakistan are the ones who suffered by the in discriminate bombing by PAF...

 

[Neo]

A direct attack on the Non Muslims... delibarate or otherwise... This is what I was mentioning earlier --> WE V/S THEM...

How is this a direct attack? I as a muslim was asked a question and I explained with a ref to the Surah. What is the harm in that?

What will the Muslims do if the Non Muslims make it a NO GO similarly as the depiction of Mohammad in Cartoons ?? Why this double standard ?

I think it is already happening. The only difference is that for Muslims the Quran is a divine authority and the cartoons are man made. There are no double standards.

 

[Neo]

Do you realize that you are toeing the same understanding of the koran that the jihadis use.... including the ones who killed the children in peshawar.

When someone with this understanding owns an ak, and sees a crowd of 'kafiirs' (basically the most of us here), I do not see any surprise in what follows.

In that case I'd say that you have not understood the Quran. You can not take an Ak and kill the 'kafirs' based on a single isolated verse. Killing is only justified in certain circumstances and none of them was applicable in the Paris attack or any other terrorist attack that I know of.

 

[bose]

How is this a direct attack? I as a muslim was asked a question and I explained with a ref to the Surah. What is the harm in that?

What if a non Muslim comes with his or her source or books to justify the like of the Cartoons ?

I think it is already happening. The only difference is that for Muslims the Quran is a divine authority and the cartoons are man made. There are no double standards.

What difference does it Make ?? Any one can come up with their devine thing and make the claims... What does the Ahmadia's Claim ?

 

[thethinker]

In that case I'd say that you have not understood the Quran. You can not take an Ak and kill the 'kafirs' based on a single isolated verse. Killing is only justified in certain circumstances and none of them was applicable in the Paris attack or any other terrorist attack that I know of.

The Koran and Eternal War | Raymond Ibrahim

The difference between the violent passages in the Koran and those in the Old Testament (as more comprehensively explained here) is this: the Old Testament is clearly describing historic episodes whereas the Koran, while also developed within a historical context, uses generic, open-ended language that transcends time and space, inciting believers to attack and slay nonbelievers today no less than yesterday.

Thus in the Old Testament God commands the Hebrews to fight and kill "Hittites," "Amorites," "Canaanites," "Perizzites," "Hivites," and "Jebusites"—all specific peoples rooted to a specific time and place; all specific peoples that have not existed for millennia. At no time did God give an open-ended command for the Hebrews, and by extension their Jewish descendants, to fight and kill all "unbelievers."

To be sure, Muslims argue that the verses of the Koran also deal with temporal, historical opponents, including the polytheists of Mecca, and to a lesser extent, the Byzantine and Sassanian empires.

The problem, however, is that rarely if ever does the Koran specify who its antagonists are the way the Old Testament does. Instead, Muslims were (and are) commanded to fight the "People of the Book," which Islamic exegesis interprets as people with scriptures, namely, Christians and Jews—"until they pay the jizya with willing submissiveness and feel themselves utterly subdued" (9:29) and to "slay the idolaters wherever you find them" (9:5).

The two Arabic conjunctions "until" (hata) and "wherever" (haythu) demonstrate the perpetual and ubiquitous nature of these commandments: There are still "People of the Book" who have yet to "feel themselves utterly subdued" (especially all throughout the Americas, Europe, and Israel) and "idolaters" to be slain "wherever" one looks (especially Asia and sub-Saharan Africa).

In fact, the salient feature of almost all of the violent commandments in Islamic scriptures is their open-ended and generic nature: "Fight them until there is no more chaos and [all] religion belongs to Allah" (Koran 8:39).

This fact will ensure that as long as the Koran proliferates and is read as God's literal word, its readers will continue to exist in a dichotomized world, themselves versus the rest.

 

[Neo]

Those who are comming forward to attack Pakistan are the ones who suffered by the in discriminate bombing by PAF...

There will be some innocent victims seeking revenge but TTP pigs are highly trained professionals hiding along the porus border or even accros the border. They recruite jihadists on commercial base, hire even expensive mercenries from abroad.

 

[sydsnyper]

When you clearly classify non-muslims as deserving god's wrath, you do not need a more explicit verse to kill non believers.

This is even without considering that the koran has explicit and specific verses that exhort the worst kinds of treatment to us, the proud kafirs. I hope you've read your koran to know what verses I am talking about.

In that case I'd say that you have not understood the Quran. You can not take an Ak and kill the 'kafirs' based on a single isolated verse. Killing is only justified in certain circumstances and none of them was applicable in the Paris attack or any other terrorist attack that I know of.

 

[tarunraju]

I wish more countries followed Russia's example.
Prevention is better than cure.

Prevention of what? "Justified" murder?

While you're at it, also praise how Russia "prevents" terrorist attacks by slaughtering Chechans before they can even begin to execute attacks on Russian hinterlands.

 

[bose]

There will be some innocent victims seeking revenge but TTP pigs are highly trained professionals hiding along the porus border or even accros the border. They recruite jihadists on commercial base, hire even expensive mercenries from abroad.

It is the same innocents that will continue to come back at you again and again... TTP will have steady source of such innocents to make things happen bigger and bigger... you have seen it...

What an irony the same TTP quotes Koran to kill Muslims ... They have their reasoning... There are quite a number of Pakistanis who believe them... they are not in small numbers... you agree or not.. they also quote the same book to make WE V/S THEM...

 

[sorcerer]

WIth Uzbeks going for election in March, the region would do much to keep the general situation calm.

 

[Neo]

When you clearly classify non-muslims as deserving god's wrath, you do not need a more explicit verse to kill non believers.

This is even without considering that the koran has explicit and specific verses that exhort the worst kinds of treatment to us, the proud kafirs. I hope you've read your koran to know what verses I am talking about.

It is not for us, the common man to judge who deserves Gods wrath and kill.

A question to you. What is Gods wrath and how/when will it be delivered according to your knowledge of the Islam?

 

[Neo]

Prevention of what? "Justified" murder?

While you're at it, also praise how Russia "prevents" terrorist attacks by slaughtering Chechans before they can even begin to execute attacks on Russian hinterlands.

Indiscriminate killing is wrong but extremists should not be spared. Russia slaughtered some radicalised and militant layers of the Chechens and I do not regret that.
There is peace in the region, people continue their lives without constant fear of being killed in some terrorist attack.

 

[Neo]

It is the same innocents that will continue to come back at you again and again... TTP will have steady source of such innocents to make things happen bigger and bigger... you have seen it...

What are you at? Should we not target TTP and let them kill innocent people including children?

What an irony the same TTP quotes Koran to kill Muslims ... They have their reasoning... There are quite a number of Pakistanis who believe them... they are not in small numbers... you agree or not.. they also quote the same book to make WE V/S THEM...

These people are misled, brainwashed and they do not understand the quran. If Islam was violent, more than a billion muslims would be armed today.

 

[bose]

What are you at? Should we not target TTP and let them kill innocent people including children?

The issue here is who is correct .. the TTP, quoting from same book to kill innocents ? the people like you who quote from the same book ?? or the those from the magazine depicting Mohammad the cartoons ??

Who decides what is acceptable and what is not ?? Is the Muslim world ready for it ??

These people are misled, brainwashed and they do not understand the quran. If Islam was violent, more than a billion muslims would be armed today.

These [TTP, ISIS and Boko Haram] are the same people who quotes from Koran to justify rape and killings of women [even one in labor] as legitimate acts in a war situation...

To Summarize: Who draws the red line, it is YOU [read common people], TTP [read terrorists] or the Magazine wallas [ultra leftlist, secularist or whatever it be] ??