Russia refuses technology transfer for Smerch rockets to India

Pulkit

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Weapon system Pakistan..?????...
They have in the past manufactured few things which were inducted without trials IOC etc etc... If that can be called manufacturing then yes...

but toys can be made by any nation.....

Does Pakistan manufacture this 'simple' weapons system?
 

Santu

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Weapon system Pakistan..?????...
They have in the past manufactured few things which were inducted without trials IOC etc etc... If that can be called manufacturing then yes...

but toys can be made by any nation.....
@praneet.bajpaie

Cmon Guys.. He asked question politely.. Reply in same way.. Please dont attack on person and their nation unless they do so.. If you know the answer speak it out.. :) my intention is to keep this forum friendly to all... that's it :)
 
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Pulkit

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@praneet.bajpaie
@praneet.bajpaie
Cmon Guys.. He asked question politely.. Reply in same way.. Please dont attack on person and their nation unless they do so.. If you know the answer speak it out.. :) my intention is to keep this forum friendly to all... that's it :)
that was polite only my friend... nothing was said or stated incorrect or with any intention to harm or hurt anyone...
Dont be that sensitive....
with out actual trial if a country inducts a aircraft what will you call it... since 2007 i have been hearing that they will get IOC till now i am waiting...
"it look like a simple multi barrel ricket system, what is so critical in this system that could not be manufactured by DORDO itself ? Pardon my ignorance "
his quote wat do you understand of his intention by this....

he questioned DRDO I questioned back nothin more.... why are you worried my friend....
 
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charlie

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it look like a simple multi barrel ricket system, what is so critical in this system that could not be manufactured by DORDO itself ? Pardon my ignorance
:O
Smerch is a really good Multi Barrel rocket system, it has many types of rocket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtFCsWeO1Lc

ARDE can come up with Multi Barrel rocket system with a range as good as smerch, but what will army do with 62 Smerch system that they already bought.

DRDO cannot produce rocket for smerch by themselves because it will be illegal without the permission of Russia.
 

Hari Sud

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Russian are no fools. They know about Indian reaction.

The same thing happened in T-90 tank barrel technology.

A few examples exist in the MIG series of fighters where in some items technology transfer was denied. Also example in naval vessels exist.

You can nothing about. You are dependent upon parts and technical help to keep our hardware operating. In the process they wish to make money.

When Russia or prior to that Soviet Union sold weapons, they were expecting spare parts business in the long run. The same logic applies to British, French or Israeli hardware india possess.

What happens now that it will make India made. It will tilt more towards the western suppliers, who are no different. India will make a valiant effort either to duplicate the hardware parts locally or replace the hardware with somethIng which is more acceptable.

Denying parts is a standard foreign policy tool. What is new about it. For this reason additional hardware is purchased right up front to cannibalize parts when supply is not forth coming. Pakistan cannibalized parts of F16 for a period of ten years when from 1991 till 2003 parts supply dried up.

In case the ammunition is denied that makes a hell of difference. In case of Smerch that is the case. Russia is forcing you to order ammo in sufficient quantities for them to restart the factories to produce it. It is not continuously produced. There are not enough Smerch systems around to dedicate a factory for the job. They do not wish to tell you as how to make it, then they make less money.
 

hitesh

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Russia will not share technology in those areas where Indian is developing same weapon in parallel like the Abahay APC,PinkaMk2 as they know it will be utilized to kill the hope of exporting the same to INIDA
 
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If you want to see technology development and sharing between 2 nations India- Israel
Barack missile is a good example, people will say look at Brahmos true to a point but
Russia more or less just modified yakhont missile.
 
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nik22

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@praneet.bajpaie

Cmon Guys.. He asked question politely.. Reply in same way.. Please dont attack on person and their nation unless they do so.. If you know the answer speak it out.. :) my intention is to keep this forum friendly to all... that's it :)
Agree! He does not deserve the response he got. if post has been done by country of any nationality (except south asian), he would have got reasonable answers
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Read the first post for better understanding before knee-jerking between debates ..

it look like a simple multi barrel ricket system, what is so critical in this system that could not be manufactured by DORDO itself ? Pardon my ignorance :O
 

Kunal Biswas

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Retire BM-30, They are already plagued by many issues ..

Better replaced these with Prahaars ..
 

Pulkit

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Prahaar are of range 150KM solid fuelled missiles.... whereas BM30 smerch has range of 90KM...
and i read that pinaka 3 will also fall in same category then what is the difference... as even Pinaka 3 will be having the same category...

When we have an option why were we looking for the TOT?
Retire BM-30, They are already plagued by many issues ..

Better replaced these with Prahaars ..
 

Kunal Biswas

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I cannot say anything about Pinaka 3, But The main reason we have BM-30 is to target enemy HQ and other important infrastructure behind their defensive lines like HQ and other important targets with precision, During that time the only system avilable is BM-30 so we went for these systems ..

Now we have Prahaar for such task with greater range ..

===================

The Smrech mess is very old, Such deal were finalized long back now denied by other side, The Rockets we are asking, Some of them already manufactured for Pinaka such as incendiary warhead ..

Prahaar are of range 150KM solid fuelled missiles.... whereas BM30 smerch has range of 90KM...
and i read that pinaka 3 will also fall in same category then what is the difference... as even Pinaka 3 will be having the same category...

When we have an option why were we looking for the TOT?
 

hitesh

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What technology has Russia shared with India? Even sukhois come in kits.
Sir Jee Arihant nuclear Submarine , Brahmos ,T72 ,Bmp2 ,Su30 MKI .the level of technology Russia is ready to share with India none other country will ever do in near future but you can't them for granted they have there interest too . The problem is our gov Org are not interested in absorbing the technology.
Take the example of boforce Guns ,they had the blueprints for the guns with them as the gun came with full TOT but they sat on them for years shamelessly & when things got hot ,they pulled the documents from the drawers realizing they had got the TOT at that time .:laugh:
 

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There are some things Indians need to realize.

When starry-eyed Indians go gaga over "Russia's eternal friendship with India", it sounds notoriously similar to Pakis squealing about their "all weather deeper than ocean friendship with China". I hope this news (and several similar ones) jolt such Indians out of their fawning admiration for Russia.

And why on Earth do we have expectations of "technology transfer" in the first place? Why should any nation transfer technology to us? We are fools to even expect something like this.

One more thing Indians need to understand. Those who mock Chinese for reverse-engineering need to get their head checked. Reverse engineering is something we, India, need to start on a war footing.

Do you want to solve the issue of constantly fighting for technology? Then, open defence production completely, 100%, to private participation. Give the task of reverse engineering to private parties, with the promise of massive contracts after the task is done. Let a massive military-industrial complex bloom in India. Slap and bash the regressive socialists in India.
 

Jagdish58

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There are some things Indians need to realize.

When starry-eyed Indians go gaga over "Russia's eternal friendship with India", it sounds notoriously similar to Pakis squealing about their "all weather deeper than ocean friendship with China". I hope this news (and several similar ones) jolt such Indians out of their fawning admiration for Russia.

And why on Earth do we have expectations of "technology transfer" in the first place? Why should any nation transfer technology to us? We are fools to even expect something like this.

One more thing Indians need to understand. Those who mock Chinese for reverse-engineering need to get their head checked. Reverse engineering is something we, India, need to start on a war footing.

Do you want to solve the issue of constantly fighting for technology? Then, open defence production completely, 100%, to private participation. Give the task of reverse engineering to private parties, with the promise of massive contracts after the task is done. Let a massive military-industrial complex bloom in India. Slap and bash the regressive socialists in India.
100% agreed , What have we done with bofors gun ??? Dhanush is that our own gun with full R&D ?? we have used BMP chassis for many projects

It is very easy to play down china on reverse engneering , simple thought is SOMETHING IS BETTER THAN NOTHING that some thing can be cheap home made weapon or reverse engineered one we can use those at out will

Eg:INS Jalaswa ampibous assault ship which was retired be US cannot be used in conflict without USA approval :scared1::taunt: we paid of it but we have beg with USA to use it
 

Santu

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There are some things Indians need to realize.

When starry-eyed Indians go gaga over "Russia's eternal friendship with India", it sounds notoriously similar to Pakis squealing about their "all weather deeper than ocean friendship with China". I hope this news (and several similar ones) jolt such Indians out of their fawning admiration for Russia.

And why on Earth do we have expectations of "technology transfer" in the first place? Why should any nation transfer technology to us? We are fools to even expect something like this.

One more thing Indians need to understand. Those who mock Chinese for reverse-engineering need to get their head checked. Reverse engineering is something we, India, need to start on a war footing.

Do you want to solve the issue of constantly fighting for technology? Then, open defence production completely, 100%, to private participation. Give the task of reverse engineering to private parties, with the promise of massive contracts after the task is done. Let a massive military-industrial complex bloom in India. Slap and bash the regressive socialists in India.
Absolutely true... Russia always does business for the sake of money.. they knew Chinese reverse engineer their products still they wish to sell them Su-35 , S-400 etc.. What does this mean?? They dont care how ever you use their products.. We put hell lot of money into buying them with ToT fearing that russia will never sell us products if we reverse engineer them. That's not true with Russia.. If I can afford a S-400 for my house they will sell it to me.. So no worries.. Use current Smerch do some reverse engineering... Duplicate the product with some differences and done with this hell of Smerch business.. And we are no more old India where we need to go back to Russia for every damn thing.. we made considerable progress.. lets end this stupid ToT business and reverse engineer the things. :)
 

rock127

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It's good that Russia refuses the tech transfer or else we would be still using Russian based stuff for next 1000000 years.Our bad habit of of dependency SHOULD GO and we need to be self reliant.

It's good time we put our money on our tech and people.We got enough manpower and $$$.

Instead of teasing Chinese for their reverse engineering we should o the same since in war it doesn't matter.

Russia also need to understand that they should not treat India as a milking cow all the time and they should now make their cooperation in a broader manner.The last thing Russia wants is pushing India towards US/Israel etc and losing such a big regional friend like India.Russia is not such a superpower anymore like USSR.
 

JBH22

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See the above video to understand the rockets India wants to license produce.

It would be unfair and biased to think that Russia would give its technology more so when India did not fund development of this weapon system.

Moreover, it is easy to bash BM-30Smerch etc , but please understand that this system was acquired after Kargil war and it was touted that this system would be a game changer for assault like one on Tololing :)
 
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pmaitra

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One more thing Indians need to understand. Those who mock Chinese for reverse-engineering need to get their head checked. Reverse engineering is something we, India, need to start on a war footing.
That is what I have been saying.
Do you want to solve the issue of constantly fighting for technology? Then, open defence production completely, 100%, to private participation.
Small arms, assault rifles, pistols, should never be opened to private manufacturers. That is one of the dumbest ideas one could come up with. Give it to private companies, and see the proliferation of such arms to Naxalites. Private companies will go to any extent for money.
 

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