Riots in Xinjiang: Future of Uighers and how will China deal with it? Part 2

[badguy2000]

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some interesting adjustment of " education privileges of minority ethnics"

Beijing says that the "additional points" of minority ethnics may be abolished,when minority ethnics admit to universities.

After 7.5 riot in Urumqi broke out, more and more people ask to abolish the pivileges of minority ethnics ,including "additional points" of university-extrance tests

 

[tarunraju]

In India we call "additional points" reservations. Minorities don't get higher points, but that they can get away (pass an exam, meet criteria for a job, etc.) with lower grades/points. Although unreserved classes (open category) have always problems with these reservations and would like to see them away, canceling them may cause a lot of problems. The minorities will feel even more oppressed.

 

[badguy2000]

In India we call "additional points" reservations. Minorities don't get higher points, but that they can get away (pass an exam, meet criteria for a job, etc.) with lower grades/points. Although unreserved classes (open category) have always problems with these reservations and would like to see them away, canceling them may cause a lot of problems. The minorities will feel even more oppressed.

well, the only that Uyghur know is not "favorable treatment" ,but "iron hand".

the flood of nearly 100+ innocent people prove that.

aimless privileges like "ethnic resevation" bring not "appreciation".

just as I posted before, 7.5 riot just let Uyghur maginalized more.

when other chinese ethnics look at Uyghurs, the first idea that appear on their heads will be that " those Uyghur guys may be dangerous " and " I should be away from them".

 

[yuebaili]

It is no news for the mainland chinese, the HK and Macao want democracy. But the problem is their economy is so deeply integrated into china's economy circle. So majority of them still want to stay in China. Just as I said, democracy doesn't solve economic problem.

Their economy was deeply integrated with China already before. But OTOH, why can´t they stay in China and have democracy? One country - two systems (dictatorship and democracy)?
Why not give Xinjiang and Tibet real autonomy and let them have democracy too. This is what Dalai Lama has said that he wants. But of course Mainland Chinese don´t know that. They are brainwashed to believe he wants to be a cruel slave owner as in old Tibet.

 

[no smoking]

Their economy was deeply integrated with China already before. But OTOH, why can´t they stay in China and have democracy? One country - two systems (dictatorship and democracy)?
Why not give Xinjiang and Tibet real autonomy and let them have democracy too. This is what Dalai Lama has said that he wants. But of course Mainland Chinese don´t know that. They are brainwashed to believe he wants to be a cruel slave owner as in old Tibet.

To HK and Macao, because we are not a democratic coutry.

To Dalai Lama, of course the common chinese know about this (since you can read chinese, you can start an investigation on chinese website to find out before you make any assumption). But no one care what he said. He is a politician, today he said that he only want genuin autonomy, tomorrow he discribe the life in tibet is hell. 40 years ago, he worked with CIA to start the guerrila war in tibet, 20 years later he claimed that he was always seeking a peaceful solution. Unless he admits there are blood in his hand, I won't trust him.

 

[tarunraju]

Their economy was deeply integrated with China already before. But OTOH, why can´t they stay in China and have democracy? One country - two systems (dictatorship and democracy)?
Why not give Xinjiang and Tibet real autonomy and let them have democracy too. This is what Dalai Lama has said that he wants. But of course Mainland Chinese don´t know that. They are brainwashed to believe he wants to be a cruel slave owner as in old Tibet.

Because even slightly higher autonomy breeds separatism. We have Kashmir to back that. Tibet is too big to declare an SAR. Macau and HK are manageable SARs.

 

[yuebaili]

To HK and Macao, because we are not a democratic coutry.

To Dalai Lama, of course the common chinese know about this (since you can read chinese, you can start an investigation on chinese website to find out before you make any assumption). But no one care what he said. He is a politician, today he said that he only want genuin autonomy, tomorrow he discribe the life in tibet is hell. 40 years ago, he worked with CIA to start the guerrila war in tibet, 20 years later he claimed that he was always seeking a peaceful solution. Unless he admits there are blood in his hand, I won't trust him.

Yes, I understand that China cannot accept democracy in Hongkong and Macao.This is the reason why Taiwan cannot be united with China, unless the taiwanese accept CCP dictatorship. "One country - two systems" is nothing but a smart trick. As long as CCP is ruling China, Taiwan will remain an independent country, unless China uses violence to conquer it.

As for Dalai Lama I am not making assumptions. Even in western forums Chinese forumites refer to Dalai Lama as a slave owner, who wants to restore the old Tibetan slave system. Who do you think has taught them that?

But whether you trust Dalai Lama or not is not important. What is important is whether you trust the Tibetan people or not. And obviously you don´t. You are afraid that in democratic elections the majority would support Dalai Lama. Right?

 

[no smoking]

Yes, I understand that China cannot accept democracy in Hongkong and Macao.This is the reason why Taiwan cannot be united with China, unless the taiwanese accept CCP dictatorship. "One country - two systems" is nothing but a smart trick. As long as CCP is ruling China, Taiwan will remain an independent country, unless China uses violence to conquer it.

Well, whether be united with mainland is decided by taiwanese. As long as ROC in taiwan still claim it represents the whole china, which means no formal separation is declaired, I don't see there is any possibility of war.

As for Dalai Lama I am not making assumptions. Even in western forums Chinese forumites refer to Dalai Lama as a slave owner, who wants to restore the old Tibetan slave system. Who do you think has taught them that?

But whether you trust Dalai Lama or not is not important. What is important is whether you trust the Tibetan people or not. And obviously you don´t. You are afraid that in democratic elections the majority would support Dalai Lama. Right?

That is funny. He was a slave owner and he is a slave owner today. To a person who claim himself as the god of a group of people and require all his order be followed without compromise, we can call him nothing but a slave owner. Don't tell me how 'democratic' he is when he was in the ruling position for nearly 60 years.

Dalai Lama is not important? That is good news. You can call the tibeten and ask them to elect another representive who still has some credity among chinese. Then, We'll welcome the dialog with some honest man.

honesly, I agree with colonel's words in WAB, the CCP is afraid of the question, DL is afraid of the answer.

 

[tarunraju]

That is funny. He was a slave owner and he is a slave owner today. To a person who claim himself as the god of a group of people and require all his order be followed without compromise, we can call him nothing but a slave owner.

That's offensively not true. I'm sorry but if there are more people that think He's a 'slave owner', you're totally mislead. He has a following based on religious and philosophical grounds. That doesn't make his following 'slavery' at all. Using the very same logic, you are not any less of a slave to the people who propagated this (probably the CCP government).

Don't tell me how 'democratic' he is when he was in the ruling position for nearly 60 years.

The simplest answer to that lies in the fact that Dalai Lama's are 'reincarnated' and 'selected', and not that like monarchs they leave an inheritance, or progeny.

Dalai Lama is not important? That is good news. You can call the tibeten and ask them to elect another representive who still has some credity among chinese. Then, We'll welcome the dialog with some honest man.

Once again, India's granting asylum to the Dalai Lama has nothing to do with its foreign policy. He does not control anything here, and merely runs a Tibetan Shrine. It is common knowledge that neither India, nor the Dalai Lama's active participation can oust CCP, and hence you should stop trivialising Him, and calling Him a threat.

honesly, I agree with colonel's words in WAB, the CCP is afraid of the question, DL is afraid of the answer.

Clearly, the only ones afraid of both questions and answers are the CCP. Hence it doesn't want to share its power with anyone.

 

[yuebaili]

That is funny. He was a slave owner and he is a slave owner today. To a person who claim himself as the god of a group of people and require all his order be followed without compromise, we can call him nothing but a slave owner. Don't tell me how 'democratic' he is when he was in the ruling position for nearly 60 years.

Dalai Lama is not important? That is good news. You can call the tibeten and ask them to elect another representive who still has some credity among chinese. Then, We'll welcome the dialog with some honest man.

honesly, I agree with colonel's words in WAB, the CCP is afraid of the question, DL is afraid of the answer.

Please show me where Dalai Lama has claimed he is a god and has required that all his orders must be followed without compromise!
If you cannot prove this, you have the option to apologise that you were mistaken. Otherwise I think I have the right to call you a lier.

As far as I know Dalai has said he has no political ambitions. If he succeeds to save his Tibetan compatriots from Chinese oppression he will withdraw from political activities.

 

[asheng312]

Please show me where Dalai Lama has claimed he is a god and has required that all his orders must be followed without compromise!
If you cannot prove this, you have the option to apologise that you were mistaken. Otherwise I think I have the right to call you a lier.

As far as I know Dalai has said he has no political ambitions. If he succeeds to save his Tibetan compatriots from Chinese oppression he will withdraw from political activities.

Sorry, I apologise for my mates. Dalai Lama hasn't claimed he is a god. But he has more right than god. God gives you your life, can only punish you by deciding whether you go to hell or heaven after you died. Although Dalai Lama don't have same rights, he ,together with his monks,lords,have the right to decide whether you die now or 50 years later.Anyone of them can kill an ordinary herbsman ,with the only cost was to pay some money worth a sheep after that. Of course they can torture you in whatever ways they want. But that's not all, after death, they can peel the skin of the death off, use their skull as decorate or something else. Dalai Lama himself has several sticks made of human skin and even send one to the chief of an international organization( I forgot the name of it ) .
I'm quite sure you will daubt the words of mine. But all I have writen was from the words of a great historist called Au lee(李敖）,who is in a democracy world (Taiwan),so you may trust him not to be brainwashed by CCP. He can read Tibetan language. I don't know if there were english edition of his these words. But I daubt it inspite western videos introduced him a lot as a great writer fighting with Guomindang's dictatorship for his whole life. Bcoz we witneesed how your "impartial " videos lied a whole story to you on Tibetan roit.

 

[F-14]

guys the Topic name is Riots in Xinjiang: Future of Uighers and how will China deal with it?

 

[yuebaili]

guys the Topic name is Riots in Xinjiang: Future of Uighers and how will China deal with it?

I can see your point. But the reason the riots in Xinjiang happened are principally the same as the reason of any riot in China. It has to do with human rights, freedom of speech and democracy. China does not accept anything of this. And whenever I dare to suggest that maybe it would be best for China to be split into independent provinces - as they are not used to freedom of speech - most Chinese get furious. So no matter if it is about Tibetan, Uighur or Taiwanese independence or the democratic stiuation in Hongkong or Macao, it is the same discussion. (I have learned that this kind of discussion is hard to take for most Chinese.) Maybe we can have this discussion in a new thread. It would be OK for me. But as we already have started it it here, why not continue?

 

[1.44]

China makes it illegal to discuss independence for Xinjiang
​

A new law in the far-western Chinese province of Xinjiang makes it a criminal offence for people to discuss separatism on the internet, according to state media.

Xinjiang was the scene of deadly race riots earlier this year between local Uighurs, a Muslim ethnic minority, and Han Chinese.
Almost 200 people died in Urumqi, the capital of the province, as Uighurs rose up against the Chinese government.
China has accused a tiny minority of Uighurs of wanting to split the vast desert province away from the rest of the country and declare it as independent East Turkestan.
The new law bans locals from using the internet in any way that undermines national unity. It also bans the incitement of ethnic separatism or the harming of "social stability", according to the China News Service. No specific punishment was mentioned for offenders.
Under the law, internet service providers will be required to monitor users and report any sedition. Internet access across Xinjiang was blocked for several weeks during and after the riots in July to prevent protesters from co-ordinating their efforts.
Beijing has also denied charges that its policies in Xinjiang and Tibet have disadvantaged local populations. "There is no such thing as problems being created by Han Chinese migration to Tibet or other minority regions," said Wu Shimin, the vice-chairman of the State Ethnic Affairs Commission.
Critics say that increasing Han populations leave Uighurs and Tibetans as second-class citizens in their own lands.
Meanwhile, a white paper issued by China's State Council resolutely opposed any interference by foreign countries in China's internal politics under the pretexts of "human rights" or "religion". "China's ethnic issues are strictly internal affairs of the country itself," the paper said.

China makes it illegal to discuss independence for Xinjiang - Telegraph

 

[no smoking]

[mod]OFF TOPIC PART IS DELETED.[/mod]Kadeer is just a political opptunism activist. I have no doubt that shee can betry uighur if CCP give a good price.

 

[asheng312]

As you obviously know, Sweden has conquered large territories outside Sweden and has kept Finland for some 800 years. Does this give sweden the right to rule these territories today? Wu, Sui, Song has conquered Taiwan. So has Portugal and The Netherlands. Does it give them the right to rule Taiwan? The population at that time were mainly Austronesian people. Chinese colonisation was insignificant before 17th century.

Well, you lose Finland. If you can, you surely would love to .
In acient year, conquer mean its legal territory. And what is more,our these dynasties set up direct gorverments there to lead a fruitful management. Just to get a steady society, culturate the local people ,punish criminals, enable them to live a peaceful life.and more and more hans are there. Portugal took Taiwan and other American lands as their colonies, kill local people. Draw the most profits from it .Is that the same ? So it is the reason our Hero Zhengchenggong took it back from western invaders. And for hundreds of years, no one ever daubt Taiwan as a part of China. 20 years ago, Taiwan seperists were forbidden and punished by the gorverment in Taiwan. All these things were erosed by two great leader, Chenshuibian and Leedenghui, both of whom were sentenced for corrupcy.So now a group of people still believe in these two great leaders' ideology. Funny.
In fact, when Taiwan were in dictatorship by Guomindang, economy develops fast, making Taiwan one of the four Four Asian Dragon country. While when it adopt Democracy, develop turns to be the slowest of the four Asian Dragon countries. More and more seperists are there. So you think we mainland should also adopt your democracy when millions of Chinese are still hungry to die ? Just as Mao said, imperialism have not given up the wild ambition to subjugate us. In fact, who give fund to Dalai ? westerners. Who trained the seperists and send them back to Tibet ? westerners. When westerners kill Chinese, sell negros to America years ago, did they say any human right ? When hundreds of Chinese starve to death now ,anyone fund us in the name of human right ? you wanna deter our development in the name of democracy ?no way. these tricks doesn't work anymore.

I have no idea what his aim in doing this was. This is why I want some information about it. Which organisation? Did Dalai say something etc.? You still have not given me any sources. Can you at all show me this happened. Or do you just base it on rumours?

BTW what do you suggest Dalai should do with his sticks?

Well, you can find it on youtube sufing for Ao Lee's speech. I'm not able to reach youtube now so can't give details. I'm quite sure any way you can imagin is better than his ways.

 

[yuebaili]

Well, you can find it on youtube sufing for Ao Lee's speech. I'm not able to reach youtube now so can't give details. I'm quite sure any way you can imagin is better than his ways.

Is it your communist masters that don´t allow you to see youtube?

是不是中共主人不允许你看youtube?

 

[yuebaili]

There you go.

I have seen this. But I did not discover anything about Dalai Lama saying that Shugden worshippers should be denied entry to shops or hospitals. I understand the ban as religious - similar to what the pope sometimes does.

But the way people have understood the ban and even an article saying that it is OK to use violence is definitely a problem that Dalai should deal with. If I understood Dalais English correct, he denied it and said it was only rumours. Maybe he has commented it more on other occasions. I would like to know.

So this definitely needs more investigation. And Dalai must explain what kind of democratic Tibet he is aming at. He should be invited to do that publicly (also in China) and of course we must expect that he answers critical questions.

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 PM ----------

Well, you can find it on youtube sufing for Ao Lee's speech. I'm not able to reach youtube now so can't give details. I'm quite sure any way you can imagin is better than his ways.

Is it your communist masters that don´t allow you to see youtube?

是不是中共主人不允许你看youtube?

 

[no smoking]

I have seen this. But I did not discover anything about Dalai Lama saying that Shugden worshippers should be denied entry to shops or hospitals. I understand the ban as religious - similar to what the pope sometimes does.

But the way people have understood the ban and even an article saying that it is OK to use violence is definitely a problem that Dalai should deal with. If I understood Dalais English correct, he denied it and said it was only rumours. Maybe he has commented it more on other occasions. I would like to know.

So this definitely needs more investigation. And Dalai must explain what kind of democratic Tibet he is aming at. He should be invited to do that publicly (also in China) and of course we must expect that he answers critical questions.

Firstly, banning this buddhism section by Dalai has nothing to do with what god they are worshiping. Instead, from Dalai's speech, we can find it just because Shugdens has different opinion of CCP. As emphasized by tibet in the vedio, they must be united around dalai in this critical time. What is this "critical" time? Obivioulsy it is related to the fight against china. So, we can conclude Dalai just doesn't want anyone to question his authority in this time.

Secondly, as the highest leader of this tibet gov, he has every responsibility to his words. Yes, he didn't say it, but he encouraged it by keeping blind to it. When even the public hospital has the note to prohibit shugdens and no gov officer question this, then it is safe to say that Dalai doesn't think it is wrong. Imagine if there is all the public hospitals in swiden has been rejected muslim followers' entry in past 3 years, do you think it is religious problem or political problem? Do you think the swedish gov has no responsibility to take action?

It seems Dalai only respect the democracy when it is conveniant for him. It make him even worse than CCP. At least, CCP is honest with their dictatorship.

 

[Flint]

Your "projection" is about 60 years too late. Uighurs have been systematically broken down as a people since 1949 as a part of a very carefully crafted national program by the communist government of China. Ethnic cleansing through relocation of Han Chinese, murder, deprivation of basic necessities, withholding developmental efforts, driving a rift between the minuscule intelligentsia and the besieged under developed Uighur masses, radiation poisoning, outright human rights violations and oh, did I mention mass murder. There is nothing that the CCP hasn't already done to the Uighurs that will be carried out in your misplaced threat. "Immaterial apartheid" you say? That sir would be a blessing at this point.

Its the Chinese version of "Manifest Destiny". The great march to occupy lands in the east.

Why should the locals resist the progressive and great Chinese culture? They should learn to become like them, and modernize, instead of being stuck in their superstitious past.