RFP issued for India navy amphibious vessels (LHD or LPD type)

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Re: Rs 25,000 cr tender for building helicopter-carrying warships

if I have my way, I will go for LHDs which will act as mini aircraft carriers for countries who have hardly any ability to wage a war against a nation like India.
Then we would be needing f-35, or are you suggesting small a/c which can operate N-LCA?
 

Decklander

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Re: Rs 25,000 cr tender for building helicopter-carrying warships

Then we would be needing f-35, or are you suggesting small a/c which can operate N-LCA?
If we have EMALS, we can put any ac of our choice on them. Flat deck which acts as T/O and Landing strip without the need for angled deck.
 

Abhijeet Dey

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Re: Rs 25,000 cr tender for building helicopter-carrying warships

Then we would be needing f-35, or are you suggesting small a/c which can operate N-LCA?
HAL can develop VTOL naval version of AMCA (just like F-35 jets) but the final decision needs to be taken by Indian Navy.

The F-35 has three main models; the F-35A is a conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) variant, the F-35B is a short take-off and vertical-landing variant (STVOL), and the F-35C is a carrier-based variant.
 

Abhijeet Dey

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Re: Rs 25,000 cr tender for building helicopter-carrying warships

can LPDs be used for VSTOL aircraft like F35B?
F-35B was used for vertical landing test during its first sea trials aboard USS Wasp (a Wasp-class LHD) on October 2011.

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II
 

ninja85

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Can we have a Poll for MRSV?

my vote goes to Juan Carlos class
india should go for juan carlos but it is very large almost same as virat tonnage so chances may be slim because india niether going for f-35 nor going to continue harrier ,

other is mistral which is most advanced and preferred by russians so may be its chances are more.
 

nirranj

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Re: Rs 25,000 cr tender for building helicopter-carrying warships

Why dont we build Our own?? Let the first ship be build as a technology demonstrator and the lessons learnt from its operation can be used to refine our technology. By this way we can become a serious contender in future and can (if our Industrial capacities permit) export such ships to friendly nations from vietnam to venezuela.
 

rohit b3

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Re: Rs 25,000 cr tender for building helicopter-carrying warships

Indian companies only i think
the design will be foreign, but The ships are gonna be built at an Indian shipyard.

thats how they are plannin to "uild the capabilities of the indigenous industry."
i think.
 

rohit b3

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Re: Rs 25,000 cr tender for building helicopter-carrying warships

Why dont we build Our own?? Let the first ship be build as a technology demonstrator and the lessons learnt from its operation can be used to refine our technology. By this way we can become a serious contender in future and can (if our Industrial capacities permit) export such ships to friendly nations from vietnam to venezuela.

thats the plan, Hopefully.
 

Neeraj Mathur

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Re: Rs 25,000 cr tender for building helicopter-carrying warships

the design will be foreign, but The ships are gonna be built at an Indian shipyard.

thats how they are plannin to "uild the capabilities of the indigenous industry."
i think.
maybe you are right
 

lookieloo

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Mistral and Izumo are of the same class. Both are LHDs and can carry troops and tanks.
Hardly... DDH Izumo is much faster and has no well-deck, to say nothing of its vastly different primary-role (ASW/sea-control); it actually has much more in common with Cavour, even though it doesn't carry any jets... yet.
 

nirranj

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which could be best..?
Mistral.

Or why dont we collobrate with the Japs to configure the Izumo class for our requirements?? This will be a export for them and a new partner for us. We did the same in terms of SU30MKI, Mig29K and Viky with the Russians.
 

WMD

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Since the Indian Ocean tsunami of December 26, 2004, the landing platform dock (LPD) and the amphibious assault ship (LPH) have emerged as an instrument of soft power, with their on-board fleets of multi-purpose utility helicopters, landing craft, and air-cushion vehicles; plus their command-and-control capabilities and cavernous holds proving to be invaluable for disaster relief, small-scale policing or mass civilian evacuation operations. At the same time, the LPDs and LPHs have today emerged as invaluable tools for undertaking asymmetric warfare (against pirates in the high seas), expeditionary amphibious campaigns (such as those undertaken by the Royal Navy in 1982 to retake the Falklands Islands), and low-intensity maritime operations involving vertical envelopment tactics, which the Indian Navy (IN) calls "effecting maritime manoeuvres from the sea".

It was in the September 2004 that I had penned an analysis on the need for the IN to urgently begin planning for acquiring a modest fleet of no less than three LPHs for it to undertake both humanitarian relief operations within the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) whenever required, as well as prepare for the prospects of undertaking power projection-based expeditionary amphibious campaigns with its own integral naval infantry assets (as opposed to the still existing flawed practice of transporting a mere mechanised battalion of the Indian Army (IA) on board large landing ship tanks (LST-L). It, therefore, came as no surprise almost four months later when Navy HQ, headed at that time by Admiral Arun Prakash, the Chief of the Naval Staff, directed the Directorate of Plans & Operations to begin preparing the NSQRs for procuring a fleet of LPHs with a great sense of urgency. However, matters did not move swiftly enough on the procurement front, despite the articulation and unveiling by Navy HQ of its doctrines for effecting maritime manoeuvres from the sea though joint amphibious warfare operations. This, however, did not deter the Navy from setting up—on June 24, 2008—its Advanced Amphibious Warfare School and Fleet Support Complex--in the enclave that will come up along the beach road on the outskirts of Kakinada, about 500km from Hyderabad, in the state of Andhra Pradesh. It is here that the Navy is quietly but progressively raising its first of three naval infantry battalions (to eventually become a Brigade-strength formation), which will be trained and equipped to undertake both amphibious and vertical envelopment air-assault operations.

On the procurement front, matters began to move only in October 2010 when the Cabinet Committee on National Security accorded approval to Navy HQ to begin drafting the Request for Information (RFI) regarding the acquisition of four LPHs and related hardware under the 'Buy and Make Indian' clause of the Defence Procurement Policy (DPP-9). Under this clause, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) can invite proposals (based on a capability definition document) from those Indian shipbuilders from both the public sector and private sector that have the requisite financial and technical capabilities to enter into joint ventures with foreign shipbuilders and together undertake indigenous construction of the warships. In early December 2010, the Navy HQ issued its RFIs to Pipavav Defence & Offshore Engineering Company Ltd, Cochin Shipyard Ltd, Mazagon Docks Ltd, Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers Ltd (GRSE), Larsen & Toubro Ltd, and the Vizag-based Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL). These shipyards were required to forward a Detailed Project Proposal outlining the roadmap for the development of design and construction of the LPDs. After the RFI responses were submitted by March 7, 2011 the Detailed Project Proposal, thereafter, was examined by a Project Appraisal Committee (PAC) constituted by the MoD's Acquisition Wing to verify the credentials of the foreign partners, together with confirming the acceptability of the respective joint ventures between the Indian shipyard and its foreign collaborator. By September 2011, the Indian shipyards shortlisted for issue of the RFPs were intimated. The Request for Proposals (RFP), however, was issued earlier this month.

Foreign shipbuilders offering LPH solutions include DCNS of France with its Mistral-BPC 21,300-tonne LPH, Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems with its 20,000-tonne MHD-200 LPH (with two separate heli-decks on two levels), Fincantieri of Italy with its 20,000-tonne Mosaic LPH design, South Korea's Hanjin Heavy Industries & Constructions Co with its 18,800-tonne Dokdo-class LPH, and Navantia of Spain with its Athlas 21,560-tonne LHD. The favourite contenders are expected to be Navantia and Ficantieri.

A separate RFP will be issued in future for licence-building high-speed air-cushioned vehicles from either US-based Textron Marine and Land Systems (LCAC) or Hanjin Heavy Industries & Constructions Co (LSF-2), LCMs (with designs being offered by Navantia and Hanjin Heavy Industries & Constructions Co), or high-speed catamarans, for which France's CNIM is likely to offer its L-CAT catamaran.

A detailed analysis of the RFP for the LPH requirement brings out several interesting indicators about both the overall configuration of the desired vessel and its performance/operational capabilities. For instance, the RFP has specified that the length of the vessel should be 213 metres; the draught should not exceed 8 metres; the endurance at sea must be for 45 days; the propulsion system of should be of the integrated full-electric propulsion (IFEP) type; the vessel must have a suitable well-deck for carrying amphibious craft like LCMs or LCACs and LCVPs on davits and should have the capability to launch these craft when underway; the vessel must be able to house combat vehicles (including main battle tanks, infantry combat vehicles and heavy trucks on one or more vehicle deck; and the vessel should be able to undertake all-weather operations involving heavylift helicopters of up to 35 tonnes MTOW. Weapon systems and mission sensors to go on board the projected four vessels will all be pre-selected (known also as customer-furnished or buyer-nominated equipment). Such hardware will include the point-defence missile system (PDMS), close-in weapon system (CIWS), anti-torpedo decoy system, countermeasures dispensing system and 20mmmm heavy machine guns. In addition, each of the four vessels will be required to have one E/F-band combined air-surface surveillance radar, one C/D band air surveillance radar, and an integrated marine navigation system employing X- and S-band navigation radars.

The IN has finally zeroed in on integrated full-electric propulsion (IFEP) systems, starting with the four projected LPHs to be procured (one directly from a yet-to-be-selected foreign OEM, and three to be licence-built by a MoD-owned shipyard in cooperation with a private-sector shipyard). Present-day warships worldwide utilise a combined-diesel-and-diesel (CODAD), combined-diesel-and-gas (CODAG), combined-gas-and-gas (COGAG) or combined-diesel-Electric-and-gas (CODLAG) propulsion configurations. At cruising speeds a CODLAG system employs diesel generators to supply electricity to the electric motors that drive the propeller shafts. When high speeds are required, gas turbines engage the shafts via cross-connecting mechanical transmissions (gearboxes). In an IFEP system-equipped warship, on the other hand, there is no mechanical connection between the prime mover and shaft. Instead, both the gas turbines and diesels are configured as electricity generators. While the diesels provide the vessel's base load electrical supply, including low-speed propulsion, the turbines are switched in for peak power. The benefits of IFEP include: flexibility in locating machinery (only the propulsion motor needs to be coupled mechanically to the shaft-line); fuel efficiency (when the warship is operated at part load); low noise and vibration; built-in redundancy (electrical machines may have more than one set of windings, fed from different sources, so power is still available if one set fails); reliability (a mean-time-between-failures of more than 100,000 hours); reduced maintenance costs (due, for instance, to the absence of gearboxes); and the scope for increased automation and reduced crew complement.

The IN's LPHs will also employ fixed-pitch propellers. Controllable-pitch propellers and their associated complex hydraulics are not required since the motor, and thus the shaft, can be electrically reversed. However, the IN is against the procurement of podded propulsion systems—a point that could well go against the Mistral BPD-class LPH that DCNS of France is offering for the IN. It is thus widely expected that the IN will zero in on an IFEP system developed by UK-based but GE-led Converteam industrial consortium.
Coming now to the weapons suite, the IN has a choice of combinations to choose from, including the SeaRAM and Phalanx Block 1B from Raytheon, Sadral from MBDA integrated with OTOBreda of Italy's twin-barrel 30mm/82 Compact or the Goalkeeper from THALES Nederland, the combination of Phalanx Block 1B and Barak-1 from Israel Aerospace Industries, and the combined Palma PDMS/CIWS from Russia's Tulamashzavod JSC. It is believed that the Phalanx Block 1B/Barak-1 combination is the Navy's preferred choice. The Navy's shipboard decoy control and launching system of choice is the Kavach, which has been developed by the DRDO and is being built by Mahindra Defence. The combat management system and ELINT/EW suites will be procured off-the-shelf as standard fitment along with the LPHs.
TRISHUL: Regional Naval Updates
 

cloud

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Mistral.

Or why dont we collobrate with the Japs to configure the Izumo class for our requirements?? This will be a export for them and a new partner for us. We did the same in terms of SU30MKI, Mig29K and Viky with the Russians.
not ranting or anything, just saying that the word "Japs" is offensive/racial slur for Japanese, although we may thinks its a short form and even sounds good. May be because chini's :p started that name first.. :p :p , but they may have to take chill pill on this one in India's context. :)

On topic: How about a DOKDO class, but modified to take less helos, but have destroyer(or cruiser) like capabilities including armaments(similar to mini-Kiev-class, e. g. Old Vikramaditya). We have got to innovate and do something different. This will add much more capability(including amphibious).

Personally I'm not a fan of bigger LPDs/LHDs, unless we have very strong navy and ambitions for overseas expeditions, Also by the time it happens we would need more and bigger anyway and can be taken care of later.
 

nirranj

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not ranting or anything, just saying that the word "Japs" is offensive/racial slur for Japanese, although we may thinks its a short form and even sounds good. May be because chini's :p started that name first.. :p :p , but they may have to take chill pill on this one in India's context. :)

On topic: How about a DOKDO class, but modified to take less helos, but have destroyer(or cruiser) like capabilities including armaments(similar to mini-Kiev-class, e. g. Old Vikramaditya). We have got to innovate and do something different. This will add much more capability(including amphibious).

Personally I'm not a fan of bigger LPDs/LHDs, unless we have very strong navy and ambitions for overseas expeditions, Also by the time it happens we would need more and bigger anyway and can be taken care of later.
Thanks for throwing light on my blunder :namaste:. I think Japanese can be a natural partners. Working with them will need enormous patience as they try to do everything so perfectly. Some of my friends working in a Japanese Auto Major say if the Japanese set a (Engineering) target, they mean the perfect value and no tolerance.

On topic, Collabrating with Japan will give us strategic benefits too. It will bring both the nations even closer and will give both a leverage with respect to Chinese Rants. I am not much sure on the Korean vessel.
 

lookieloo

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which could be best..?
For India's purposes, Mistral offers the best value-for-money, great example of an 80% solution. Better yet would be a class made to IN specs by India.

@nirranj Again, DDH-Izumo isn't even close to being an amphib as it has no well deck and was built for a completely different purpose.

As an aside, here's another idea for handling amphibious operations on the cheap.
Navy's New Mobile Landing Platform, Montford Point, To Revolutionize Amphibious Warfare « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary
 
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Immanuel

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Nah, I would rather see the Juan Carlos, tis large and can carry fighters which gives the IN the flexibility to operate the F-35B in the future if needed. The F-35 will be a contender to go on board the INS Vishal.
 

Abhijeet Dey

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Nah, I would rather see the Juan Carlos, tis large and can carry fighters which gives the IN the flexibility to operate the F-35B in the future if needed. The F-35 will be a contender to go on board the INS Vishal.
We don't know as of yet what Indian Navy will be operating from this LPD other than helicopters which will be compulsory.

Buying F-35 is a costly affair so it is better to forget. HAL, NAL & DRDO are already designing a stealth aircraft known as AMCA. By studying Indian Navy's harrier aircraft tech and combining it with AMCA we can have our own desi version of F-35 at a very low cost with some added features from PAK-FA.

LINK: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Medium_Combat_Aircraft"Ž
 

SajeevJino

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We don't know as of yet what Indian Navy will be operating from this LPD other than helicopters which will be compulsory.

Buying F-35 is a costly affair so it is better to forget. HAL, NAL & DRDO are already designing a stealth aircraft known as AMCA. By studying Indian Navy's harrier aircraft tech and combining it with AMCA we can have our own desi version of F-35 at a very low cost with some added features from PAK-FA.

LINK: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Medium_Combat_Aircraft"Ž
No no ...F 35 is a Master Piece if we launched from an Carrier or an LHD ( It's hard to handle F 35 IN LHD ) and F 35 Avail for FMS after 2017

but AMCA is avail after 2030 and It's not a VTOL aircraft
 

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