Remembering India's Forgotten Holocaust

Ray

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I met with many people who studied in English medium, they neglect their mother tongue. From my personal experience. Jut like an American-Indian who lived his life in US, cant have high respect for India, similarly those studied in english, cant have respect for their mother tongue. Some things will automatically make neglect some things.
Well my nephew and niece were born in the USA. And they are Americans. They know Bengali and Hindi and they are well aware of the Bengali customs too.

So, it is the person and not the language that matters.



Then what? Why should Laloo learn good english? He is indian leader and he lecture Indian people and our mother tongue is not English, so what should he do with having a good sense on English? He is indian leader not american that he has to lecture in English. Indian leader should speech in Indian language.
Yes, he should speak in Hindi.

Saw the video I appended? He is not being impressive at all because he is unable to convey what he wants to say coherently.

Modi spoke in Hindi in Bhutan and Gujarati is his mother tongue.



I just said English more important to Dutch, and why you comparing india type a big country with small country like Holland? My point is despite learning in your mother tongue and english as 2nd language you can live in 21st century, and Holland is it's proof.
.

I am not comparing. You kept mentioning how great Holland is. I am merely saying India is greater.

same as above, average Indian does not need to know Holier than Thou type hard English words, all they need to know is Basic sense of english. For average Indian having capacity to have a basic conversion in English is more than enough. For this English medium unnecessary.
So that is your problem - not use Holier than Thou hard English words.

Now, I have understood the angst.

I would just say that if one has to do or learn something one should learn it well. That is all. Not be halfway home - neither here nor there.

True and I mean regional companies.
Even they require to export to foreign countries and English is the international language or should I say American English.



Germans does not study in english, they learn it for only communication, yet they have more noble prize than us.
I have met so many Germans who speak English in one form or another. This ranges from a few words to real fluency. Germans, and especially their education system, are a pragmatic bunch. The use of English especially in business is widespread enough that it is mandatory in school often from grade 5. So most Germans under about 50 will have had English in school at one point or another. The differences will come in how much they practice it and this will often they come in contact with English speakers.

Deutsche Bahn trains also announce station stops in English

So. let us not assume on their behalf.

I did not insult any member or Indians who educate their kids in english, what just wonders me when fate of human civilization is at stake, still no body cares of it. I just said this. It is like a tiger is coming to eat us yet we are busy on other subject.
I did not complain.

I believe it doing things straight to the face and that is why I appended the post.
 
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Ray

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A competent and self-confident person never COPY others blindly..... this gives idea he is either incapable or Low self esteem
Bit of an oxymoron.

If one is competent and self confident, why should he copy anyone?

His competence and self confident grows through a well rounded education.

scientific studies and advancements are done and are being done in English......... then y german/japan/french don't talk english y we Indians wanna be english is called HIGH SELF ESTEEM
How are you so sure about the Germans that they don't know English or cannot speak it?

Learning a foreign language is compulsory throughout Germany in secondary schools and often this language is English.

Almost all students graduating high school in Japan have had several years of English language education, however most still do not have any command of spoken English.

When it comes to actually speaking English with a native speaker, Japanese students tend to become anxious about possibly sounding weird, not making any sense, and having horrible pronunciation; therefore, they shy away from speaking English altogether


In April 2011 English instruction became compulsory starting in the 5th grade of elementary school (age 10)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/mar/08/japan-launches-primary-english-push

Therefore, please do not purvey authoritatively opinion of which you have no clue.
 
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Ray

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OK

so UK &US students don't have second LANGUAGE yeah u only have authority :lol:
And the point is?

What you should realise is that others on the forum do have some education, intelligence and knowledge, apart from you.

And that they do not speak in thin air without any knowledge of what they are claiming, unlike you.

Patriotism is not Blind Faith.
 

Ray

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ur link


Japan launches primary push to teach English
Compulsory foreign language lessons start next month for all 10- to 12-year-olds, raising hopes among educators and industry leaders of ending a decades-long 'English deficit'

not ONLY ENGLISH MEDIUM SCHOOLS like India

first learn what is 1st language &2nd
Yes compulsory.

So where is all the claptrap of High esteem and they don't want to learn English?

Note the world English deficit.

We, in India, are fortunate that we have NO deficit at all as far as English is concerned.

We have a march over them!

The new curriculum is to be introduced after intense lobbying from the business community, amid fears that Japan's competitive edge could be blunted unless it takes English communication as seriously as China and South Korea.
Note the Japanese want to progress and not be left behind.

They are insisting on the learning of English from the fifth- and sixth-grade with pupils aged 10-12.

And here because of lack of self confidence and self esteem, we think learning English is wrecking the culture!
 
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Ray

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yes when i'm in TELUGU MEDIUM i learn COMPULSORY HINDI & ENGLISH LANGUAGES............ UK/US Students also have compulsory languages JUST as a LANGUAGES &here in India ENGLISH MEDIUM SCHOOLS where mother tongue is 2nd repeat 3 times plz
and English medium schools also have COMPULSORY HINDI AND MOTHER TONGUE.

So?

I am sure you did not know that, for if you knew, you would have not raised this storm in a teacup.

In essence, it ,means that all are learning (except maybe the Hindi belt) three languages - English, Hindi and the Mother Tongue.

Therefore, what's the beef all about?
 
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Ray

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Maybe you feel insecure being from Telegu medium that those who know English well are stealing a march over you and getting better placed in life. Understandable. But then it is no one's fault. It is the world's fault that they have made the English language the vehicle for international interaction and since we are dependent on their technology and scientific knowhow, to progress we have to learn English or be left way behind.

But let me assure you that knowing English well is no way an indication that one does not know his culture.

What upsets you as it does me, are the Mimic Men - those who are neither here or there and think by using a smattering of English, they should be taken to be real modern! Ray Ban glasses, designer clothes and foreign cologne and spiked hair driving an expensive car, is no indicator of intelligence or knowledge.

And who knows they maybe from vernacular schools with rich petty businessmen parents who have loads of money to spare.
 

Ray

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what ur problem man i learn SOCIAL/SCIENCE 6 SUBJECTS IN TELUGU learn english as a language...............ok
like uk/us students learn SOCIAL/SCIENCE 6 SUBJECTS IN english learn french/german as a language...........ok

but english medium students in India learn SOCIAL/SCIENCE 6 SUBJECTS in english learn hindi/telugu as a language.......wanna be english :p
The problem is the style of your post like this one and your attitude reeking of high insecurity. This lack of self esteem that you display is very demoralising that inspite of India being on the go, some are pulling us back through a lack of self esteem

The attitudinal leaning of your post smacks of the Mimic Man syndrome.

Using 'man' or 'dude' does not put you in the class of being very knowledgeable or any indication of high intellect. In fact, it shows high insecurity and attempting to be a wannabe.


Those who know English are not the wannabe. They are conversant with that language and can smoothly move into international circles where the world action is and bring credit to the country; and have the good fortune to know their Mother tongue and India's Official Language, i.e. Hindi.
 
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Singh

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O/T and levity : What's up with Telugu medium folks ? There is DK the chu and now jus
 

Ray

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MODS NO PERSONAL ATTACKS

ANY WAY I HAVE BETTER POSITION THAN ALL ENGLISH MEDIUM GUYS :lol: that secondary

WTF man it is just language like any other i dont have any problem learning 1-40 languages but i hate wanna be english

Your appeal to a Mod is noted. I am a Mod.

If you have a better position than English medium chaps, then don't whine and instead be proud.

if you want to hate English for hating's sake, then it shows your psychology.

You need professional help.

same feeling u attacked me personally then only i mimic u
i repeatedly say learn 1st,2nd and foreign language but .......... leave it
Mimic Man syndrome is not you mimicking me.

It is the syndrome that is enunciated in VS Naipaul's book 'The Mimic Men'.

You did not know that?
 
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Singh

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REPEAT I DON'T HATE ENGLISH or any other LANGUAGE WHY I HATE

I HATE SOME LOW SELF ******* person feels Only english is great /it rule the world bla bla bla WANNA BE ENGLISH
The hell is wanna be English ?

Tartan checks cords from Saville Row and John Lobb shoes or being a cockney hampton wick ? :rofl:
 

Ray

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Sorry to disappoint you, I am no wannabe English.

I am an Indian and proud to be so.

My knowing English is in no way detriment to my status as a proud Indian.

I have no psychological hang up and am at peace with all people irrespective of where they come from, who they are, what languages they speak etc etc.

That confidence comes from self confidence and high esteem of having had an all round education and having been in a profession that was all encompassing inputs of India, that embodied a very secular and a very patriotic feeling of India.
 

Srinivas_K

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REPEAT I DON'T HATE ENGLISH or any other LANGUAGE WHY I HATE it is one of 100 languages

I HATE SOME LOW SELF ******* person feels Only english is great /it rule the world bla bla bla WANNA BE ENGLISH
Dude .... I agree with your point that some people feel proud speaking in english during social gatherings But not all.
 
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Ray

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The hell is wanna be English ?

Tartan checks cords from Saville Row and John Lobb shoes or being a cockney hampton wick ? :rofl:




 
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abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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the irony is many here in india thinks english as prestigious language and in europe french considered as most prestigious language
.
though from modern linguistics says all languages are equivalent......
.
the prestigious language is just a view/ approach
 

Virendra

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Social welfare state is a state which tries to help people regardless of their class. Since establishment of State to modern era(including medieval era), state's only duties were- Collect tax, keep law and order running and fight back foreign invaders. The idea of state should responsible to educate every kid, state should give every one treatment in free, those did not exist.
So you mean the Mughals educated or tried to educate every kid, free treatment, maintained law & order and fought back invaders?
And the Indian Kings did not do all that? :hmm:
Where is all this coming from ?? :D

Giving now= During great famine of Gujarat Shahjahan ordered to open Langarkhanas in Burhanpur, Surat, Ahmedabad in these cities. Rs 50,000 were distributed among poor people in Ahmedabad. Total tax collected from Gujarat was reduced to 2 crore 70 rupees. Shahjahan disposed Kashmir's Governor Tarbiot Khan because he was inactive while distributing AID. During 1646 Punjab famine there were 10 Langarkhanas in Punjab, more ever Rahadari, Pandari these taxes were withdrawn.
Seriously, if that is all the Mughal Emperors could do, then it falls short even by the savage standards of medieval era.

Let me give a picture of what happened in the country during famines, which were far more frequent than the one time peanuts Shah Jahan offers.
"The inhabitants of these two countries were reduced to the direst extremity. Life was offered for a loaf, but none would buy; ranks were sold for a cake, but none cared for it; the ever bounteous hands were stretched out to beg for food and the feet which had always trodden the way of contentment walked about only in search of substance for a long time dog's flesh was sold for goat flesh and the pounded bones of dead were mixed in flour and sold. When this was discovered, the seller was brought to the justice. Destitution at length reached such a pitch that menbegun to devour each other and the flesh of a son preferred to his love The numbers of the dying caused obstructions in the roads. Every man whose dire sufferings did not terminate in death and who retained the power to move warned off to the towns and villages of the countries. Those lands which had been famous for fertility and plenty of resources reta in no traces of production". (Abdul Hamid Lahori, 1868:235)

Peter Mundy records (pg 34-35) that :
from the party of 21 British traders who travelled from Surat to Agra and Patna, 17 died of sickness. Meantime the camp of Shah Jahan at Burhanpur was filled with the provisions of a ll kinds of luxurious life indicates the gulf between the life lifestyle of a common man and the king.

Qazinivi states in Badshah Nama that in such a land, Shah Jahan still demanded revenue and said that those who couldn't pay shall be sold as slaves.
Families were separated and destroyed as a result, let alone the loss of honour, material and personal liberty.
Not only that, Shah Jahan had decreed that such slaves should be sold only to Muslim lords.

India suffered famines almost every second year in those decades. Should we exempt Shah Jahan because he setup a few soup kitchens here and there on one occasion?
Shah Jahan is recognized as the owner of the richest Empire of his time. Yet what did he do to improve the lives of his people?
Even when the land was scorched dry and naked like living hell, why was Shah Jahan wasting treasury of 4 crores in winning the disputed region of Kandahar from his Iranian counterpart, instead of taking take of the crisis in his own Kingdom?
Why was he spending hard earnt taxes of our people for constructing buildings of personal use or gratification?

Abdul Hamid Lahori states that people died in such huge scores that roads were obstructed by the corpses. But no, Shah Jahan's coffers and revelry were unmoved, untouched.
When people neede State help with tools, infrastructure to fight the dwindling rains, what Shah Jahan and his State gave them was the farmans of more and more taxes.

Shah Jahan's annual revenue in 1647 was 220 million rupees, of the income of the crown lands was thirty million rupees". (Thomas, 1871:29).
Jadunath Sarkar writes that he had jewelry worth fifty million rupees, one of his rosaries was valued 800,000 million rupees and the aigrette he wore on his turban on the anniversary of his coronation cost 1.24 million rupees. He further reckons that Shah Jahan gave away the gifts of ninety five million rupees in the first twenty years of his reign.
The amount of 6.5 million rupees was spent on the construction of a new city of Shah jahanabad including the cost of fortifying Peacock throne, "it was the richest and most superb throne which has ever been seen in the world.

Contrast Shah Jahan's wasteful expenditures in constructing lofty buildings, with Sher Shah Suri who for example spent State revenue in constructing 5 highways and 700 sarais where each was used as an inn, health & educational centre.

Bernier says : "this country is ruined by the necessity of defraying the numerous charges required to maintain the splendor of courts and to pay a large army maintain for the purpose of keeping people in subjection."

Mughals used Indian made products and they patronized Indian industry, they did not issue one sided tax system on import or export business like British did to promote Manchester industry and ruin Indian industry. During Mughal era India's GDP was 22% of whole world's GDP and when British left it was only 3% of total.
Now that you mention Indian GDP, let me cover that as well.
In Shah Jahan's rule 36.5 % of the entire assessed revenue of Mughal empire was allotted to sixty eight princes and Amirs.
Further 25% to 587 senior officers.
Thus 62% of the wealth of 220 million rupees of Mughal empire was arrogated by 665 elite individuals.
What did the commoners get, other than toiling to generate all that revenue, even to the cost of life, family, honour.

Regards,
Virendra
 

Virendra

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Sorry to disappoint you, I am no wannabe English.

I am an Indian and proud to be so.

My knowing English is in no way detriment to my status as a proud Indian.

I have no psychological hang up and am at peace with all people irrespective of where they come from, who they are, what languages they speak etc etc.

That confidence comes from self confidence and high esteem of having had an all round education and having been in a profession that was all encompassing inputs of India, that embodied a very secular and a very patriotic feeling of India.
Reminds me of Hansa from the Khichdi :D :D
 
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Ray

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the irony is many here in india thinks english as prestigious language and in europe french considered as most prestigious language
.
though from modern linguistics says all languages are equivalent......
.
the prestigious language is just a view/ approach
I don't want to appear partisan, but Bengali literature is very exhaustive in genre and inspiring.
 

abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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I don't want to appear partisan, but Bengali literature is very exhaustive in genre and inspiring.
french! Great critics like deridda, foucoult , roland barthe, albert camus.
.
novelist like camus , dramatist like samuel beckett.
.
for dramas I will choose english cause of shakespear , bernard shaw, christopher marlow, ben jonson etc.
.
for short stories russian cause of chekov and tolstoy.
.
and for novel, there are many but greatest is dostovosky cause einstein admitted that many of his research are originated by reading novels of dostovosky(mikhail bakhtin named it as dilogic meaning one conversation but many meaning)
 

Ray

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french! Great critics like deridda, foucoult , roland barthe, albert camus.
.
novelist like camus , dramatist like samuel beckett.
.
for dramas I will choose english cause of shakespear , bernard shaw, christopher marlow, ben jonson etc.
.
for short stories russian cause of chekov and tolstoy.
.
and for novel, there are many but greatest is dostovosky cause einstein admitted that many of his research are originated by reading novels of dostovosky(mikhail bakhtin named it as dilogic meaning one conversation but many meaning)
Any translation in the Indian languages?

In what language did you read them?
 

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