Remembering India's Forgotten Holocaust

Virendra

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@Virendra Idea of social welfare state did not exist then.
What do you mean by a social welfare state and why do you think they were not present in India.
Yet Mughals tried to help poor people, one must remember in regard of contemporary primitive transport system, there was little could be done, even Moreland too accepted it, unlike British who had Railway, yet they let Millions of Indian die due to starvation. Mughals opened Langerkhana to help poor people, how ever lal though Mughal empires were conscious about their duty, Government officials were corrupt.
Sorry but it is difficult to make sense out of what is written above.
Let me know which were these Langerkhanas,
how many of them were there in India,
how they were run,
what do the official and other sources of history say about them ?

Tajmahal, Muslims give. After all to find way to rich India, Europeans sat sail.
That is yet to be settled.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ashtriya-swayamsevak-sangh-41.html#post496979
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...7120-taj-mahal-tejo-mahalaya-controversy.html
If Taj Mahal is a ShahJahan sanctioned creation from the scratch, how is it that the official Journal of the Imperial courts says at page 403 volume 1 :
"Raja Man Singh's Manzil was acquired from Jai Singh by emperor ShahJahan for burying the queen"
Sure I don't need to remind anyone that Manzil is persian for 'Mansion'
And who would name a cenotaphe, a burial place as a 'Mansion'.

The list goes this way Best Hindu and Buddhist ruler(under them we enjoyed both religious and economic freedom)> Muslim rulers(we enjoyed only economic prosperity)> worst was British(we were starved to death despite having railway).
I'll ignore Jaziya etc for a while, please expand on the economic prosperity part and how we can attribute all that to the actions of Mughal empire.

Regards,
Virendra
 
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Ray

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One cant have respect for his mother tongue if he does not study in this.
What make you feel so?

Any examples you can trot out?

More ever in terms of %, out of 120 crore Indians, how many Indians are going to work in call center or in IT center? Very little then why should we send our kids to English medium when it is proven fact English medium education destroys a country's language?
Rather odd that you think learning English means only a qualification for a call centre job.

A rather low bar for learning English I must say.

Maybe that is so for those who have not studied English as the first language and are equipped, in a manner of speaking, of the calibre of English of Laloo Pershad.

English is more necessary to Dutch, whose country's total GDP's 75% comes from service sector, Dutch economy is heavily depended on World economy, infact Holland is base of many multinational companies, to them grabbing a job in multinational company office more urgent than us, yet they learn English as 2nd language.
So Holland is your acme for jobs.

Just observe how many Indians dominate the world global market and institutions and then talk about Holland and the Dutch.

All I want that is Indians please learn English as 2nd language instead of using it first language. After that Indian girls may wear Bikini for sunbath in sea beach, I dont give a damn
.

All I say is let us not churn out pidgin English literates who are neither here nor there and cannot beat the English speaking non Indians at their game.

Also I cant understand why Indian companies use English instead of Indian languages.
Because money lies beyond the shores of India.

After all I cant blame them, you can get a outline of people's average IQ. Global Warming is going to ruin Human civilization, still people are ignorrant of this threat which is going to destroy their very existence.
I guess you have never heard of Rajendra K. Pachauri.

He shared the Nobel Prize with Al Gore for their organisation that stood for Climate Change Hazards.

Pauchauri is from La Martiniere, Lucknow. Educated thus in English.

What else Can I expect then from such low quality people.
You can expect much if you shed your skewed patriotism.

They are not really low quality people as you think, more so since they are making India proud and reckonable in the international field in all spheres.
 

ITBP

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What do you mean by a social welfare state and why do you think they were not present in India.
Social welfare state is a state which tries to help people regardless of their class. Since establishment of State to modern era(including medieval era), state's only duties were- Collect tax, keep law and order running and fight back foreign invaders. The idea of state should responsible to educate every kid, state should give every one treatment in free, those did not exist.

Sorry but it is difficult to make sense out of what is written above.
Let me know which were these Langerkhanas,
how many of them were there in India,
how they were run,
what do the official and other sources of history say about them ?
Giving now= During great famine of Gujarat Shahjahan ordered to open Langarkhanas in Burhanpur, Surat, Ahmedabad in these cities. Rs 50,000 were distributed among poor people in Ahmedabad. Total tax collected from Gujarat was reduced to 2 crore 70 rupees. Shahjahan disposed Kashmir's Governor Tarbiot Khan because he was inactive while distributing AID. During 1646 Punjab famine there were 10 Langarkhanas in Punjab, more ever Rahadari, Pandari these taxes were withdrawn.

I'll ignore Jaziya etc for a while, please expand on the economic prosperity part and how we can attribute all that to the actions of Mughal empire.

Regards,
Virendra
Mughals used Indian made products and they patronized Indian industry, they did not issue one sided tax system on import or export business like British did to promote Manchester industry and ruin Indian industry. During Mughal era India's GDP was 22% of whole world's GDP and when British left it was only 3% of total.
 

Ray

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@ITBP

If you mean me as 'low quality people' such an epithet will shake off me as water would over a duck's body.

In case you think you are the sole patriot and we are low quality, let me assure you that you enjoy your bounties that this country gives you because people like me, the true patriots, who stand and have stood vigil on the frontiers so that you could have a good night sleep because of the security that we provided you.

Do be more magnanimous to 'low quality people' like me for I was enduring −50 °C not counting the wind chill factor or the bullets, while you were snug as a bug on a rug in your comfort filled house.

Do spare me your misplaced and skewed bile.
 
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ITBP

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What make you feel so?

Any examples you can trot out?
I met with many people who studied in English medium, they neglect their mother tongue. From my personal experience. Jut like an American-Indian who lived his life in US, cant have high respect for India, similarly those studied in english, cant have respect for their mother tongue. Some things will automatically make neglect some things.

Rather odd that you think learning English means only a qualification for a call centre job.

A rather low bar for learning English I must say.

Maybe that is so for those who have not studied English as the first language and are equipped, in a manner of speaking, of the calibre of English of Laloo Pershad.
Then what? Why should Laloo learn good english? He is indian leader and he lecture Indian people and our mother tongue is not English, so what should he do with having a good sense on English? He is indian leader not american that he has to lecture in English. Indian leader should speech in Indian language.

So Holland is your acme for jobs.

Just observe how many Indians dominate the world global market and institutions and then talk about Holland and the Dutch.
I just said English more important to Dutch, and why you comparing india type a big country with small country like Holland? My point is despite learning in your mother tongue and english as 2nd language you can live in 21st century, and Holland is it's proof..

All I say is let us not churn out pidgin English literates who are neither here nor there and cannot beat the English speaking non Indians at their game.
same as above, average Indian does not need to know Holier than Thou type hard English words, all they need to know is Basic sense of english. For average Indian having capacity to have a basic conversion in English is more than enough. For this English medium unnecessary.

Because money lies beyond the shores of India.
True and I mean regional companies.

I guess you have never heard of Rajendra K. Pachauri.

He shared the Nobel Prize with Al Gore for their organisation that stood for Climate Change Hazards.

Pauchauri is from La Martiniere, Lucknow. Educated thus in English.
Germans does not study in english, they learn it for only communication, yet they have more noble prize than us.

You can expect much if you shed your skewed patriotism.

They are not really low quality people as you think, more so since they are making India proud and reckonable in the international field in all spheres.
I did not insult any member or Indians who educate their kids in english, what just wonders me when fate of human civilization is at stake, still no body cares of it. I just said this. It is like a tiger is coming to eat us yet we are busy on other subject.
 

ITBP

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@Ray I did not insult you, may be my words were wrong, I just pointed out our utter ignorance of the threat Global warming that can destroy our civilization. I did not intend to insult you or any one.
 
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Srinivas_K

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@jus

There is a strategic balance in India with english when it comes to language identity and unification.

There is a north and south divide and english serves the purpose of unification. That do not mean one should treat english as first language .... mother tongue has to be the priority then english should be given importance.

why do you think Indians are low on esteem??
 
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abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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language is just a concept of communication which is formed by signs( words in simple tone) and every sign have difference meaning. For example work is a sign and it means to do a thing
.
all languages are equivalent . Example. The word 'kaam' of hindi language have equivalent word 'work' in english. Hence all languages are equivalent
.
.
language is a device to share knowledge. It never shows culture as I have stated in another thread but it shows geography.....
.
p.s. This is from linguistics........
 
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Srinivas_K

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Common buddy every nook &corner in India(ns) feel some kind of PROUD WHEN speaking ENGLISH

I know two telugu/gujrati......... ppl speaks English (i don't have any problem) but feeling proud why
West is a developed world and every modern tech is originating from west and world is following it. One of the reason why people try to imitate westerners and their languages, it is natural since they have that much softpower all over the world.

You have to see Chinese and East Asians they are worse than us. If India also does some advancements and sets trends then people all over the world also does the same with Indian languages.

BTW the recent trend is people all over the world are imitating Indian style. It is natural.

Regarding pride and all , ---- english ...



Bolly stars/Celebs Gives Interviews/Award functions (where target audience are 99% Indians) use English
This is due to Hollywood's domination some imitations ...... to set a trend Indian cinema needs to reinvent itself and project its trends all over the world then world will imitate us.

where 40% ppl mother tongue is hindi,70% ppl in India can understand Hindi (rough) instead of 40% Indians can understand English

Not only Language many Indians feels inferior about skin (WHITE) COLOR
As a male I feel chicks are attracted to brown skin and I am happy with that!
 

bhramos

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As a male I feel chicks are attracted to brown skin and I am happy with that!
i dis agree with this point, chicks are attracted to black then brown.

been in EU for some years , my personal experience.. ;-)
 

Srinivas_K

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i dis agree with this point, chicks are attracted to black then brown.

been in EU for some years , my personal experience.. ;-)
I am quoting with my personal experience dude .... r u referring to black Africans??
 

ninja85

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So you think future is only blindly copying West?

We will progress keeping our culture and language ahead, not through another country's language. We are not like Americans that we will make English our own. We are Indians, we have our own civilization like Chinese. We need to promote our language instead of making English our own.

I am not saying every thing of my country is good.
he will keep coming on to you don't reply him.:rofl::laugh::lol:
 
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Famines,schorched earth policy,controlling food supply are all methods used since ancient Egypt
To subjugate the masses.
 

Srinivas_K

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WEST .............. again u intentional/ignorantly leaving FRENCH,GERMAN,some E.U..... they don't speak english

Yes Germans or French feel offended when some one refers them as english .... But West is dominated by English and most of the scientific studies and advancements are done and are being done in English. This is what I am referring.


Holly/TECH great,it means we must speak english with Indians..............what logic is this :lol:
I have to ask you the same question .... read calmly what I have written then reply. It is not that there is a time limit to reply :violin:

STOP THIS NON SENSE WOMEN are NEVER CARE u brown or green........... It depends on individual interest
First question .... Are you a Lady ?? :crusin5:

Second question ..... if yes then what is the problem if I express my observations .... :fencing:

Just for info. ...... I become green alien at night


To Shuru

:fencing:
 
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Ajesh

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English Fooled the Entire World by smartly introducing their Languages and concepts in Foreign Countries and instead of doing introspection and improving our own basic Culture and imrpovising it we are blindly copying them

What is worse is some people imitating and copying them by saying and actually believing " Hinduism believes accept everything and all that Philosophies."
 

Srinivas_K

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Yes you are correct !!

It is called soft power and instead of blindly opposing it we have to find a constructive way to negate this soft power.

English Fooled the Entire World by smartly introducing their Languages and concepts in Foreign Countries and instead of doing introspection and improving our own basic Culture and imrpovising it we are blindly copying them

What is worse is some people imitating and copying them by saying and actually believing " Hinduism believes accept everything and all that Philosophies."
 
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Ajesh

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Yes If we Blindly oppose it, people wont take it positively, we need to negate this.

Yes you are correct !!

It is called soft power and instead of blindly opposing it we have to find a constructive way to negate this soft power.
 

Ray

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Mimic man – Urban India is an 'uncivilisation' wearing the disguise of modernity

He looked like a poster boy for 21st century, cosmopolitan urban India: in his mid-20s; wearing designer labels — Ray Ban, Polo, Reebok — from head to toe; hair jelled in stylish spikes. And he was elbowing and pushing and shoving to get ahead in the Delhi airport queue in which his co-passengers were standing.

The young man wasn't being consciously aggressive and rude. For him, what he was doing was normal and natural behaviour; there was nothing wrong with it. And it struck me that the young man, wearing the outward trappings of international designer labels, was a walking — or rather, shoving and jostling — example of almost everything that is wrong with urban India: it has borrowed the outward symbols of global modernity without understanding and internalising the foundations of basic civic sense and social behaviour of which these are just the external tokens.

V S Naipaul mocked The Mimic Men, the 'brown saheb' Indians who after Independence stepped into the shoes of their former British rulers and imitated their ways in style of dress and speech. But as comically pathetic as Naipaul's puppet people were, they at least tried to observe the codes of conduct — however inappropriate they may have been in the context of an independent India — of their colonial mentors.

The mimic Indians of today slavishly follow international trends in clothes and fashions with little or no appreciation or understanding of the social norms, the civic dos and don'ts that these outward manifestations represent. Like standing in an orderly queue without elbowing people aside to get ahead. Like learning to control your bladder till you find a toilet and not pee in full public sight. Like observing traffic rules while driving and not flying into a literally murderous road rage at the slightest provocation. Like not seeing every young, unaccompanied woman as a potential target for unsolicited and unwanted sexual advances.

India's urban landscape mirrors its mimic inhabitants. The so-called 'modern' Indian city is a village masquerading as a metropolis. Air-conditioned malls playing muzak and luxury apartment blocks with exotic names like Manhattan Heights and Malibu Towers, with laundry hanging out to dry from every balcony, cluster cheek by jowl with festering slums where pigs root about in stinking piles of garbage and people defecate in the open for lack of basic sanitary facilities.
Our cities boast state-of-the-art Metro systems, as well as travellers who have never been taught — or will never learn? — the fundamental discipline of allowing disembarking passengers to first get off before trying to barge their own way inside. We build multi-crore highways and expressways, without any footbridge or safe pedestrian crossing so that several hundred fatalities occur each year with people being run over by speeding vehicles, and nothing ever gets done about it. When you have a population of 1.2 billion, and growing, what's a few hundred deaths a year?

India mimics the modern world of space-age technology while khap panchayats routinely and with impunity order 'honour' killings and brides are burnt alive in everyday cases of 'dowry deaths'.

Mimicry of all that might be called modern? It's more than that. It's a mockery of civilisation, ancient or modern.

Mimic man – Urban India is an 'uncivilisation' wearing the disguise of modernity | Times of India Blogs
********************************************************************

One has to understand that if one does study with English as the medium of instruction, he does not become the Mimic Man.

It is the folks who think they know English, who ape the West and become the Mimic Man.

So one should not mistake one for the other.
 
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Ray

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Why is he talking in English?

Maybe he requires to make the interviewer understand better?

Sadly, one does not know what he is actually trying to convey since he would have done it better in Hindi.

He is what is called the Mimic Man neither here nor there, but wanting to be a very 'in' person.
 
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