Ramayana: Ancient Indian Epic

Who was better?

  • Rama (and his cohorts)

    Votes: 18 81.8%
  • Ravana (and his cohorts)

    Votes: 2 9.1%
  • I cannot pick a side.

    Votes: 2 9.1%

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

indiatester

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One interesting thing I found yesterday in Mahabharata is the Story of Iravanta.
Iravata (not the elephant) is naga raja. His son-in-law is killed by Garuda.
Iravata then sends his daughter to Arjuna and she falls for him and they have a son who is named Iravanta!!! (He is killed on the 8th day of the Mahabharata Yuddha)
Very surprised to see this story and the accepted widow marriage here.
 

captscooby81

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Surprisingly Bhadrachalam is not mentioned in this list neither marked anywhere in the Map

There is famous Lord Rama temple there and also some stone footprints which were considered to be of lord rama when they stayed in the forest

edit : Apologies Rama never visited bhadrachalam . then those footprints were story created by locals i think

Historical Placed associated With Shri Ram

Ayodhya (Kosal)
Nandi Gram
Sravasti
Mithila / Videha
Chitrakoota
Tripuri / Sarabhanga
Vindya Mountains
Tapti River
Panchwati
Dankaka Aaranya
Kishkinda
Mahishak
Madura
Rameswaram
Anuradhapura
Lankapuri
 
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Bhadra

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Today Rudrabhishek was performed in Ayodhya which also marks the beginning of the construction of Ram Temple there.
In Reverence to Shri Ramchandra Ji. I produce a video of Tulasidas Bahjan which I find very soothing and appealing..

 

indiatester

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Today Rudrabhishek was performed in Ayodhya which also marks the beginning of the construction of Ram Temple there.
In Reverence to Shri Ramchandra Ji. I produce a video of Tulasidas Bahjan which I find very soothing and appealing..

Kuldeep Pai has been one discovery.... he has brought out these fantastic kids.
Rahul Vellal and Raghuram have been a treat to watch. Anyone wishing to discover our music can start here.
 

AsuraKiller203

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I have fallen in love with this rendition of Ramcharitramanas on this youtube channel. The playlist is in a very useful format : He recites the verses first and then puts them to music. Verses are shown in native avadhi and then translated in english. I am not familiar with classic Indian music raags, so I dont know what this is called. But his voice and this music gives me goosebumps and arouses pure joy and bhakti in me.


Check out especially from 29:00 minute n forward. And tell me if it doesnt feel divine
 

Bhadra

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सकल हंस में राम बिराजे

प्रेम ना बड़ी उपजे

प्रेम ना हाट बिकाय

बिना प्रेम का मानवा

बंधिया जम पुर जाय

जा घट प्रेम ना संचरे

जा घट जान मसान

जैसे खाल लोहार की

वो स्वास लेत बिन प्राण


सकल हंस में राम बिराजे

राम बिना धाम नहीं

राम बिना धाम नहीं

सब भरमंड (ब्रह्माण्ड) में जोत का बासा

राम को सुमिरो दूजा नाही

तीन गुण पर तेज हमारा

पांच तत्व पर जोत जले

जिनका उजाला चौदह लोक में

सूरत डोर आकाश चढ़े

सकल हंस में राम बिराजे


नाभि कमल से परख लेना

हृदय कमल बीच फिरे मणि

अनहद बाजा बाजे शहर में

ब्रह्माण्ड पर आवाज हुयी

सकल हंस में राम बिराजे


हीरा जो जोती लाल जवारात

प्रेम पदार्थ पर्ख्यो नाही

सांचा मोती सुमर लेना

राम धनी से म्हारी दूर लगी

सकल हंस में राम बिराजे


गुरुजन होय तो हेरीलो घट में

बाहर शहर में भटको नहीं

गुरु प्रताप नानक शाह के चरने

भीतर बोले दूजा नाइ

सकल हंस में राम बिराजे



 

Haldilal

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I have a question Ramayana clearly states that Ravana's Lanka was situated 100 Yojanas that is around 1200 KM , how we calculate the distance from main land to the lanka shores , from the main land to the Lankapuara ?
 

Haldilal

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Many Western scholars and Indian scholars with Western mindset tried to fix the age of Srimad Ramayana, to approximately the 5th to 4th century BC. And, they succeeded to some extent in making people believe in the above fictitious theory.

If we study Srimad Ramayana in depth, we will get a clue to this riddle.

After conquering Lankhini, the Godess of Lanka, Sri Hanuma enters Lanka and searches for Seeta. Sage Valmiki describes what Sri Hanuma saw, as follows:


(Sundara Kanda 4th Sarga 26 - 28 Slokas)


(Sundara Kanda 9th Sarga 4 - 5 Slokas)

Here, Sage Valmiki describes elephants with four tusks and also those with three tusks and those with two tusks.

Modern anthropologists say that elephants with four tusks existed 12-1.6 million years ago.
The Gomphotheriidae were a diverse taxonomic family of extinct elephant-like animals (proboscideans). Referred to as gomphotheres, they were widespread in North America during the Miocene and Pliocene epochs, 12-1.6 million years ago. Some lived in parts of Eurasia, Beringia and, following the Great American Interchange, South America.

Gomphotheres differed from elephants in their tooth structure, particularly the chewing surfaces on the molar teeth. Most had four tusks, and their retracted facial and nasal bones prompt palaeontologists to believe that gomphotheres had elephant-like trunks.


It is a fantastic discovery. A complete skull with the mandibula is very rare. And for this species, it is the only one in the world. It confirms the existence of large mastodons in this part of Europe 11 million years ago.

The skull is thought to be between 13 and 11 million years old - too ancient to have its DNA extracted. The body has not been found.

Different types of mastodons roamed the Earth for millions of years, with the exception of Australia and Antarctica. They first appeared during the Miocene epoch (23.03 to 5.3 million years ago) and only died out completely around 11,700 years ago.
Many of the tells proves indeed ramayana occured pre 3000 BCE . The time between mahabharat , krishna had almost gap of many generatione's of and Mahabharata happened around 3100 BCE to 3200 BCE then ramanaya proceeded that by almost many centuries. Suryavansh was established around 8,000 BCE .
 

Haldilal

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Ravana's central palace main citadel was a massive collection of several edifices that reached over one yojana that equals to 12 Km in height, one yojana in length, and half a yojana 6 Km in breadth. The island had a large mountain range known as the Trikuta Mountain, atop which was situated Ravana's capital of Lanka, at the center of which in turn stood his citadel.
 

AsuraKiller203

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Many of the tells proves indeed ramayana occured pre 3000 BCE . The time between mahabharat , krishna had almost gap of many generatione's of and Mahabharata happened around 3100 BCE to 3200 BCE then ramanaya proceeded that by almost many centuries. Suryavansh was established around 8,000 BCE .
Yes, this is correct.
My personal belief is Ramayan is at least 8000 (possible much more) years old. Hindu historians and scriptures have an accurate and unbroken list of kings spanning hundreds of generations beginning from Brahma/ Manu and also have lists starting around famous rulers such as Ishvaku, Raghu and many other path breaking souls associated with various vanshas.

Whole confusion in minds of deracinated Indians is because they start calculating from a false/westerner made starting point and go backwards from there.

For example all these "pivotal historic moments of humanity" are currently taught as gospel and are false:

Agriculture was first created around 8000 years ago in Middle East - false
The Wheel was invented around 5000 years ago in ME - false
Written Language came to India only 2500 years ago - false
Proto-Indo-European language 3000 years old - wrong
Sanskrit flowing from PIE language 2500 years old - false
Thus sanskrit literature such as Mahabharat, Ramayan, Puran created 2000 years ago - false

All these human milestones are actually 3-4 times older than presently accepted by the western academia. They will gradually accept human civilization to be much older over next 20-30 years as western propaganda and western dominance decreases.

Have a look at the laughable fairytales they passed on as truths in the past:

Till 1920s British taught that Budha and Mauryan Kings like Asoka did not historically exist and were mythical creations despite the evidence to contrary. This made it easier for them to impart the idea that only british united India and India never existed as a nation before.
Then a few decades later, in face of mounting pressure they accepted Asoka existed but dated it to 5th century ACE to fit all Indian history into their 2000 year biblical view.
Then a few decades later they grudgingly accepted Asoka date as 3rd century BCE.

Same exercise is being done with Lord Rama and Krishna now by the "unbiased and scientific" historians.

All current stakeholders in the world barring Hindus have a vested interest in forcing a wrong view of human civilization as true history on global population.

Christians and Muslims: Their holy books tell them a;; that is good in the world is only world is 2000 years old thus if something older exists it invalidates their god and religion. Grudgingly some christians and muslims over time accepted jewish old testament as part of their canon which pushes back their known history to 4000 years old. Anything older than 4000 years can not be allowed to be shown in good light. Thus till 1990s every Indian related history, be it indus valley, vedas, ramayans etc was forced to fit into 2000 BCE timeframe by the western historians.

Second, for them all major human inventions such as farming, animal domestication, invention of wheel, formation of city states happened in middle east. Because it is holy land for them. Israel/Palestine for jews n christians and arabia for muslims. Thus excessive focus on Mesopotamian and Egyptian history. All mesopotamian and egyptian civilizational achievements are accepted as true while Indian civilizational achievements face difficulties being accepted by westerners.

Other strong groups in the world that have a stake in teaching wrong human history:

Western Non-Religious "liberals" "atheists" & commies :
This groups is more fanatic and bigoted than the above group and has a deep vested interest in maintaining false human history. The whole modern liberal mental make up is founded on the fundamental false belief that time is linear and human progression happens in a straight line over time. So, for them something old is by default bad and unworthy and something older is even worse.
This is different from Hindu Dharmic worldview that time is circular and unending and human civilizational development is rhythmic. It is a wave-form. Our scriptures tell us of many universes created and destroyed before this one. They tell us of Yugas and Manus that come and go. Life and creation is a story of ups and downs where people and civilizations follow a cyclic journey of rise and fall based of their karmas while the total divine creation is infinite. So from point of views of Hindus, it is possible for human civilization to have risen in 10000 BC , peaked in 8000 BC and then plateaued and fallen down and then rise again in 2000 AD. This is blasphemy to others. These close-minded "progressives" need everything old to be primitive to validate their own sense of present superiority and progress.

If Hindu view of the world and true history reaches the masses, it will unravel the foundations of the current evil, materialistic, hedonistic, power-hungry elite. That is why all power centers except hindus oppose true learning of human roots. It will undo their centuries-old house of lies built over millions of dead bodies.
 
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cereal killer

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Yes, this is correct.
My personal belief is Ramayan is at least 8000 (possible much more) years old. Hindu historians and scriptures have an accurate and unbroken list of kings spanning hundreds of generations beginning from Brahma/ Manu and also have lists starting around famous rulers such as Ishvaku, Raghu and many other path breaking souls associated with various vanshas.

Whole confusion in minds of deracinated Indians is because they start calculating from a false/westerner made starting point and go backwards from there.

For example all these "pivotal historic moments of humanity" are currently taught as gospel and are false:

Agriculture was first created around 8000 years ago in Middle East - false
The Wheel was invented around 5000 years ago in ME - false
Written Language came to India only 2500 years ago - false
Proto-Indo-European language 3000 years old - wrong
Sanskrit flowing from PIE language 2500 years old - false
Thus sanskrit literature such as Mahabharat, Ramayan, Puran created 2000 years ago - false

All these human milestones are actually 3-4 times older than presently accepted by the western academia. They will gradually accept human civilization to be much older over next 20-30 years as western propaganda and western dominance decreases.

Have a look at the laughable fairytales they passed on as truths in the past:

Till 1920s British taught that Budha and Mauryan Kings like Asoka did not historically exist and were mythical creations despite the evidence to contrary. This made it easier for them to impart the idea that only british united India and India never existed as a nation before.
Then a few decades later, in face of mounting pressure they accepted Asoka existed but dated it to 5th century ACE to fit all Indian history into their 2000 year biblical view.
Then a few decades later they grudgingly accepted Asoka date as 3rd century BCE.

Same exercise is being done with Lord Rama and Krishna now by the "unbiased and scientific" historians.

All current stakeholders in the world barring Hindus have a vested interest in forcing a wrong view of human civilization as true history on global population.

Christians and Muslims: Their holy books tell them a;; that is good in the world is only world is 2000 years old thus if something older exists it invalidates their god and religion. Grudgingly some christians and muslims over time accepted jewish old testament as part of their canon which pushes back their known history to 4000 years old. Anything older than 4000 years can not be allowed to be shown in good light. Thus till 1990s every Indian related history, be it indus valley, vedas, ramayans etc was forced to fit into 2000 BCE timeframe by the western historians.

Second, for them all major human inventions such as farming, animal domestication, invention of wheel, formation of city states happened in middle east. Because it is holy land for them. Israel/Palestine for jews n christians and arabia for muslims. Thus excessive focus on Mesopotamian and Egyptian history. All mesopotamian and egyptian civilizational achievements are accepted as true while Indian civilizational achievements face difficulties being accepted by westerners.

Other strong groups in the world that have a stake in teaching wrong human history:

Western Non-Religious "liberals" "atheists" & commies :
This groups is more fanatic and bigoted than the above group and has a deep vested interest in maintaining false human history. The whole modern liberal mental make up is founded on the fundamental false belief that time is linear and human progression happens in a straight line over time. So, for them something old is by default bad and unworthy and something older is even worse.
This is different from Hindu Dharmic worldview that time is circular and unending and human civilizational development is rhythmic. It is a wave-form. Our scriptures tell us of many universes created and destroyed before this one. They tell us of Yugas and Manus that come and go. Life and creation is a story of ups and downs where people and civilizations follow a cyclic journey of rise and fall based of their karmas while the total divine creation is infinite. So from point of views of Hindus, it is possible for human civilization to have risen in 10000 BC , peaked in 8000 BC and then plateaued and fallen down and then rise again in 2000 AD. This is blasphemy to others. These close-minded "progressives" need everything old to be primitive to validate their own sense of present superiority and progress.

If Hindu view of the world and true history reaches the masses, it will unravel the foundations of the current evil, materialistic, hedonistic, power-hungry elite. That is why all power centers except hindus oppose true learning of human roots. It will undo their centuries-old house of lies built over millions of dead bodies.
Ramayana was I guess written even after Mahabharat happened. Maharishi Aryabhatta calculated start of Kalyuga in 3102 BC (modern terms) & Yudhishthira ruled for 36 years so that means Mahabharat happened in 3138 BC.
Ramayana is much before that. Also the half man Half ape thing (Vanaras) thing is often used to discredit Ramayana. But in Ramayana it is mentioned that in the war Ravan's warrior son Meghnada exterminated almost half of Vanar race. So it seems logical that they became extinct within the passage of time.
 

Haldilal

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Ramayana was I guess written even after Mahabharat happened. Maharishi Aryabhatta calculated start of Kalyuga in 3102 BC (modern terms) & Yudhishthira ruled for 36 years so that means Mahabharat happened in 3138 BC.
Ramayana is much before that. Also the half man Half ape thing (Vanaras) thing is often used to discredit Ramayana. But in Ramayana it is mentioned that in the war Ravan's warrior son Meghnada exterminated almost half of Vanar race. So it seems logical that they became extinct within the passage of time.
Ramayan had many versions , what we refer to now is the Valmiki version of the epic tales of the ramayana. Accourding to the Javanese Ramayana Mandodari was the Mother of or mother like figure of Mata Sita then what about Ravana ? :)

In the Malay Seri Rama and the Indonesian-Javanese Rama Keling, Ravana wants to possess Mandodari, the mother of Rama, but instead marries a pseudo-Mandodari, who looks like the real one. Rama's father has a union with this pseudo-Mandodari, resulting in the birth of Sita, who is nominally Ravana's daughter.
 
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cereal killer

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Ramayan had many versions , what we refer to now is the Valmiki version of the epic tales of the ramayana. Accourding to the Javanese Ramayana Mandodari was the Mother of or mother like figure of Mata Sita then what about Ravana ? :)
So according to them either Lord Ram was Malaysian who crossed Sumatra into Heartland of Indonesia... Even if Sita was Ravan's daughter according to them. Don't know why but normal geography doesn't support their claim.
 

Haldilal

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So according to them either Lord Ram was Malaysian who crossed Sumatra into Heartland of Indonesia... Even if Sita was Ravan's daughter according to them. Don't know why but normal geography doesn't support their claim.
The Adbhuta Ramayana narrates: Ravana used to store the blood of sages he killed in a large pot. The sage Gritsamada was practicing penance to acquire the goddess Lakshmi as his daughter. He stored milk from Darbha grass and purified it with mantras in a pot so that Lakshmi would inhabit it. Ravana poured the milk from this pot into his blood pot. Mandodari is frustrated seeing the evil deeds of Ravana, so she decides to commit suicide by drinking the contents of the blood-pot, which is described to be more poisonous than poison. Instead of dying, Mandodari gets pregnant with the incarnation of Lakshmi due to the power of Gritsamada's milk. Mandodari buries the foetus in Kurukshetra, where it is discovered by Janaka, who named her Sita.

The Devi Bhagavata Purana says: When Ravana wants to marry Mandodari, Maya warns him that her horoscope indicated her first-born would destroy her clan and should be killed. Ignoring Maya's advice, Ravana buries his first child by Mandodari in a casket in Janaka’s city, where it is discovered and grew up as Sita. Jain adaptations of the Ramayana like Vasudevahindi, Uttara-purana, and others also state that Sita is the daughter of Ravana and Mandodari, and is abandoned when she is prophesied to be the cause of the end of Ravana and his family.

Copy paste from a site.
 
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cereal killer

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The Adbhuta Ramayana narrates: Ravana used to store the blood of sages he killed in a large pot. The sage Gritsamada was practicing penance to acquire the goddess Lakshmi as his daughter. He stored milk from Darbha grass and purified it with mantras in a pot so that Lakshmi would inhabit it. Ravana poured the milk from this pot into his blood pot. Mandodari is frustrated seeing the evil deeds of Ravana, so she decides to commit suicide by drinking the contents of the blood-pot, which is described to be more poisonous than poison. Instead of dying, Mandodari gets pregnant with the incarnation of Lakshmi due to the power of Gritsamada's milk. Mandodari buries the foetus in Kurukshetra, where it is discovered by Janaka, who named her Sita.

The Devi Bhagavata Purana says: When Ravana wants to marry Mandodari, Maya warns him that her horoscope indicated her first-born would destroy her clan and should be killed. Ignoring Maya's advice, Ravana buries his first child by Mandodari in a casket in Janaka’s city, where it is discovered and grew up as Sita. Jain adaptations of the Ramayana like Vasudevahindi, Uttara-purana, and others also state that Sita is the daughter of Ravana and Mandodari, and is abandoned when she is prophesied to be the cause of the end of Ravana and his family.

Copy paste from a site.
Hmm.. So if Mandodari was a Java Queen then how come she managed to bury her (Sita) all the way into India & that too in Kurukshetra. Unless Kurukshetra was a place in Malaysia or South East Asia too & Raja Janak was Cambodian.
There is a simple logical explanation to all this. Hinduism travelled to Indonesia where people came up with their own version. In ancient times they may not have proper knowledge about India & so they assumed all this happened in Java & Ravan was their king.
 

Haldilal

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Hmm.. So if Mandodari was a Java Queen then how come she managed to bury her (Sita) all the way into India & that too in Kurukshetra. Unless Kurukshetra was a place in Malaysia or South East Asia too & Raja Janak was Cambodian.
There is a simple logical explanation to all this. Hinduism travelled to Indonesia where people came up with their own version. In ancient times they may not have proper knowledge about India & so they assumed all this happened in Java & Ravan was their king.
The two books I quoted are from indian writers based in India, there is a higher chances that Mata Sita was indeed the daughter or Ravana.
 

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