Quick Reaction Missile to be developed by BDL and DRDO

Screambowl

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Whats wrong with 3D-CAR(Rohini/Revathi) radar? Wont they be used with QRSAM?
They can be used but the tracking and locking system should be way more quicker


The tracking raging locking should be within 1-2 seconds. Launching may be automatic or manual.
All the process should happen within 5 seconds.
Then it will solve the purpose of QR
 

AnantS

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They can be used but the tracking and locking system should be way more quicker


The tracking raging locking should be within 1-2 seconds. Launching may be automatic or manual.
All the process should happen within 5 seconds.
Then it will solve the purpose of QR
What makes you think they are slow in Track Range & lock ? Given India already makes counter battery radar, I think it is pretty much capable to have developed a radar system with quick computational and messaging capability. Why Army Rejected Akash for QRSAM, was the limitation of Akash itself.

Anyway here is the Radar for QRSAM, drdo:

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2017/02/aero-india-2017-highlights-2.html

Also for QRSAM SPYDER system we bought, for providing early warning cues - LRDE Ashwin radar is being employed:

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2017/03/spyder-sr-ll-qrmqr-sam-deliveries-have.html
 

Screambowl

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What makes you think they are slow in Track Range & lock ? Given India already makes counter battery radar, I think it is pretty much capable to have developed a radar system with quick computational and messaging capability. Why Army Rejected Akash for QRSAM, was the limitation of Akash itself.

Anyway here is the Radar for QRSAM, drdo:

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2017/02/aero-india-2017-highlights-2.html

Also for QRSAM SPYDER system we bought, for providing early warning cues - LRDE Ashwin radar is being employed:

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2017/03/spyder-sr-ll-qrmqr-sam-deliveries-have.html
It is under development. Not yet developed.

integrated IFF
it says'' full track update of 4 second and better. ''

If it is within 1-2 then it can be compared with spyder because the calculations happen within milliseconds
 

AnantS

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It is under development. Not yet developed.

integrated IFF
it says'' full track update of 4 second and better. ''

If it is within 1-2 then it can be compared with spyder because the calculations happen within milliseconds
IIRC reading an article Spyder is 3-4 seconds only. Also we do not know if it is still in initial stages of development or in advanced stage of development, ie if it is being tested along with QRSAM.
 

Screambowl

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IIRC reading an article Spyder is 3-4 seconds only. Also we do not know if it is still in initial stages of development or in advanced stage of development, ie if it is being tested along with QRSAM.
what spyder uses is a long wave band that is L band and most probably it will be inferior to QR in terms of detection.

But most probably SPYDER uses a very high digital signal processor which converts the low grade analogous input into high grade output. Then its all mathematics like discrete time Fourier transformations , remez algorithm and Tylor series.

edit: I just realized that INSAT used C band too which QR , battery surveillance would use.
 
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scatterStorm

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You would not want to blow is tactical n-tipped rocket over your head. 25 kms interception range(slant) means shooting down a target which is in visual range. Though it will definitely minimise damage if an attack is imminent.

Best counter for NASAR is intelligence plus Prahar.
Of course I didn't meant that it would take down incoming warhead just 500 meters from ground zero, I think if QRSAM can engage the warhead within a envelope of 20-25 Km than collateral damage could be reduced.

But fallout would be imminent, by the way latest news:

Pak Army chief targets India's 'Cold Start' doctrine at missile test:
http://www.defencenews.in/article/P...as-Cold-Start-doctrine-at-missile-test-263016

What do you think was this in response to QRSAM launch test?
 

airtel

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What makes you think they are slow in Track Range & lock ? Given India already makes counter battery radar, I think it is pretty much capable to have developed a radar system with quick computational and messaging capability. Why Army Rejected Akash for QRSAM, was the limitation of Akash itself.

Anyway here is the Radar for QRSAM, drdo:

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2017/02/aero-india-2017-highlights-2.html

Also for QRSAM SPYDER system we bought, for providing early warning cues - LRDE Ashwin radar is being employed:

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2017/03/spyder-sr-ll-qrmqr-sam-deliveries-have.html
these are GaN based radars or GaAs based radars ??
 

Kunal Biswas

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porky_kicker

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in areas with zero radar coverage manpads will be launched using visual cues

while QRSAM is meant to work along with its own set of radars , so complete RTP will always be there , so QRSAM will exploit the radar cues from its radar complements to destroy its targets more accurately and more quickly.

faster alert to threat means the missile system will have ample warm up and alignment time therefor allowing the QRSAM to engage the hostile within its NEZ (no escape zone).

QRSAM is primarily for protection of moving army column. with multiple secondary roles.

for taking out cruise missile , PGMs etc IIR based missiles r the best options ,that is why missile based CIWS r all IIR based missiles either standalone or dual with complementary RF based.


oh i am not a expert in all these

wrote it becz i cant get to sleep :crying:
 
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Rahul Singh

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Best don`t speculate on assumptions let that be 200% as facts ..

=======

You have man-pads for such incursions, QRSAM are basically for defending tactical bases against cruise missiles and fast jets at low altitude ..
off-topic

The best solution for thwarting such incursion in said areas is a massive deployment of ASLESHA 3D in an overlapping pattern with interceptor support from Igla. Though shooting is not still an option. Making RWR of intruding Chinese helicopters Bip Bip will give a strong message that we are neither ill-equipped as 62 nor have rotten eggs like JLN and KM.
 

kunal1123

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The Arms of Others
Monday, July 17, 2017 by Indiandefense News


DRDO latest Quick Reaction SAM is seen as an alternative to the AKAASH System which the army claims it neither has the requisite 360 degree coverage, nor the 3-4 second reaction time
by Bharat Karnad

As on some of his earlier foreign trips, Prime Minister Narendra Modi promised Israel, the host country, rich contracts for military hardware, in this case for joint development of medium range and long range surface-to-air missiles (MRSAMs and LRSAMs), and for off-the-shelf purchase of the Israeli Spyder Quick Reaction SAM (QRSAM) for the army.
Why do these deals stick in the throat? The Modi government approved them earlier this year even though it knew the indigenous QRSAM, for instance, was on track and would be tested soon. Both its first test firing on June 4 and the second, pointedly, on July 3, the day Modi left for Israel, went off without a hitch. A third successful test-firing and this locally made missile would be ready for series production and induction. Acting Defence Minister Arun Jaitley praised DRDO for the successful tests, but didn’t take the next, logical, step — scrapping the contract for the Spyder that would have saved the country in excess of $2-3 billion, and given a fillip to the local armaments design and development efforts at the heart of Modi’s flagship Make in India programme.
There was no need to go to Israel for 500 units each of MRSAMs and LRSAMs either. The Akash short range missile is already operational with the Indian Air Force. True, this missile’s performance is deficient owing to a sub-par Russian radar seeker, but there’s little else wrong with it. So, a sensible solution would have been for the indigenous Akash project to be tasked with developing scaled-up medium and long range versions of the missile within the timeline given to the Israelis. A more narrowly defined deal with Tel Aviv to co-develop a radar-seeker for the Akash missiles could then have been signed at a fraction of the $5-7 billion cost of MRSAM-LRSAM.
The Israeli contracts to win goodwill are like the PM’s announcement in April 2015 in Paris to buy 36 Rafale combat aircraft. These are too few in number to have any sustained impact in war and too costly not to divert scarce funds from the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which is technologically the same as the 4.5 generation Rafale. But because it is an Indian design, it can spawn a whole bunch of air force and naval variants in the future.
India’s purchase of the Rafale prevented the French company, Dassault Avions, from closing down its combat aircraft development complex, because until then no country had bought this inordinately expensive fighter plane. The Indian contract will fetch France Rs 1,750 crore per Rafale, for a minimum payout by India of Rs 63,000 crore.
Incidentally, this is about the cost of raising 17 Corps, the army’s first large offensive mountain warfare formation which Jaitley, wearing his finance minister’s hat, had earlier rejected as unaffordable. Now the Chinese are acting up in the Doklam area and India, as ever, is bereft of forces to take the fight to the PLA on the Tibetan Plateau.
And while in Washington, Modi promised US President Donald J. Trump consideration of the 1970s vintage F-16 fighter plane for assembly in India. Lockheed Martin will make billions of dollars from shifting the worn out F-16 production line to India. The F-16 has no realistic chance if the IAF has any say in the decision, but the Saab Gripen is likely to get in as the single engine aircraft choice of the IAF, again at the expense of the Tejas LCA.
Modi is not the first prime minister to be profligate with the country’s resources. In 1995-96, the Congress PM, P.V. Narasimha Rao, rescued the Sukhoi Bureau and manufacturing plant in Irkutsk from shuttering with a generous subvention of Rs 6,000 crore. In return, he did not contractually demand Intellectual Property Rights for the Su-30 technologies developed there, or that Sukhoi share the design work load with Indian aircraft designers in the Aeronautical Development Agency in Bangalore, who created the LCA, or that technology be fully transferred, including source codes, to Indian agencies, or anything else remotely to advance India’s defence industrial capability.
Between an imports-fixated Indian military and an Indian government that seems incapable of thinking straight, the country is fated to remain an arms dependency. Karnad is professor for National Security Studies at the Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi, and author most recently of ‘Why India is Not a Great Power (Yet)
 

rone

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@k
The Arms of Others
Monday, July 17, 2017 by Indiandefense News


DRDO latest Quick Reaction SAM is seen as an alternative to the AKAASH System which the army claims it neither has the requisite 360 degree coverage, nor the 3-4 second reaction time
by Bharat Karnad

As on some of his earlier foreign trips, Prime Minister Narendra Modi promised Israel, the host country, rich contracts for military hardware, in this case for joint development of medium range and long range surface-to-air missiles (MRSAMs and LRSAMs), and for off-the-shelf purchase of the Israeli Spyder Quick Reaction SAM (QRSAM) for the army.
Why do these deals stick in the throat? The Modi government approved them earlier this year even though it knew the indigenous QRSAM, for instance, was on track and would be tested soon. Both its first test firing on June 4 and the second, pointedly, on July 3, the day Modi left for Israel, went off without a hitch. A third successful test-firing and this locally made missile would be ready for series production and induction. Acting Defence Minister Arun Jaitley praised DRDO for the successful tests, but didn’t take the next, logical, step — scrapping the contract for the Spyder that would have saved the country in excess of $2-3 billion, and given a fillip to the local armaments design and development efforts at the heart of Modi’s flagship Make in India programme.
There was no need to go to Israel for 500 units each of MRSAMs and LRSAMs either. The Akash short range missile is already operational with the Indian Air Force. True, this missile’s performance is deficient owing to a sub-par Russian radar seeker, but there’s little else wrong with it. So, a sensible solution would have been for the indigenous Akash project to be tasked with developing scaled-up medium and long range versions of the missile within the timeline given to the Israelis. A more narrowly defined deal with Tel Aviv to co-develop a radar-seeker for the Akash missiles could then have been signed at a fraction of the $5-7 billion cost of MRSAM-LRSAM.
The Israeli contracts to win goodwill are like the PM’s announcement in April 2015 in Paris to buy 36 Rafale combat aircraft. These are too few in number to have any sustained impact in war and too costly not to divert scarce funds from the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which is technologically the same as the 4.5 generation Rafale. But because it is an Indian design, it can spawn a whole bunch of air force and naval variants in the future.
India’s purchase of the Rafale prevented the French company, Dassault Avions, from closing down its combat aircraft development complex, because until then no country had bought this inordinately expensive fighter plane. The Indian contract will fetch France Rs 1,750 crore per Rafale, for a minimum payout by India of Rs 63,000 crore.
Incidentally, this is about the cost of raising 17 Corps, the army’s first large offensive mountain warfare formation which Jaitley, wearing his finance minister’s hat, had earlier rejected as unaffordable. Now the Chinese are acting up in the Doklam area and India, as ever, is bereft of forces to take the fight to the PLA on the Tibetan Plateau.
And while in Washington, Modi promised US President Donald J. Trump consideration of the 1970s vintage F-16 fighter plane for assembly in India. Lockheed Martin will make billions of dollars from shifting the worn out F-16 production line to India. The F-16 has no realistic chance if the IAF has any say in the decision, but the Saab Gripen is likely to get in as the single engine aircraft choice of the IAF, again at the expense of the Tejas LCA.
Modi is not the first prime minister to be profligate with the country’s resources. In 1995-96, the Congress PM, P.V. Narasimha Rao, rescued the Sukhoi Bureau and manufacturing plant in Irkutsk from shuttering with a generous subvention of Rs 6,000 crore. In return, he did not contractually demand Intellectual Property Rights for the Su-30 technologies developed there, or that Sukhoi share the design work load with Indian aircraft designers in the Aeronautical Development Agency in Bangalore, who created the LCA, or that technology be fully transferred, including source codes, to Indian agencies, or anything else remotely to advance India’s defence industrial capability.
Between an imports-fixated Indian military and an Indian government that seems incapable of thinking straight, the country is fated to remain an arms dependency. Karnad is professor for National Security Studies at the Centre for Policy Research, New Delhi, and author most recently of ‘Why India is Not a Great Power (Yet)
for your knowledge the akaash was used as point defense system , its neither under powered also it was designed in a way to protect stationary and high value infrastructure , for ur info qr-sam is for protection of mobile group like army column or surveillance systems etc ,

and other things about su30 mki deal during the time of deal irutsk not in shutdown phase it was in track to deliver su30 mkk to china and others , about su30mki tot they given full tot just like they given for china in case su 27 ,but they didnt give some lru tot becoz they made by other private consortium , the in ability of Indian private sector at that time causes more than 458 type of them get imported , recently i searched about this issue found that Indian private sector found capable of 458 LRUs and they cost way more than Russians §(becoz of starting ,development and infrastructure costs) even though IAF su30 mki fleet is the most reliable feet of any other su30 fleet in world ( i know becoz i contracted as service engineer for hal i use to vist hal plants frequently) more over making a 100% su30 mki cost more than imported one from Russia becoz of hal in ablitys and other issue ( after manmohan parrikar became dm he solved about 65% issue by spare parts plant)

then about rafale , rafale is not a save buzz for French by the time India buy rafale they where filled with rafale orders from Qatar so dont say blunders , rafale deal is a diplomatic deal ,, the rafale will replace the nuclear delivery versions of m-2000-5 in iaf service and it also comes with electronic war fare variant / special mission variant ( if u have doubt check on official rafale deal documents)

for the single engine deal it wont affect LCA becoz LCA is a second layer air defense ( even iaf insist on multi role they never going to use LCA for that ) the use of medium category f16 or gripe en is for supportive mission with su30 mki in offensive node ( su30mki alone in offensive mode is not a gud idea iaf realize this during last two read flag excises )
 

gekko

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explain it to armed forces who will reject buying it.
..........................................................
Abhi vo din gaye, babu.

People either fall in line or get thrown out unceremoniously. The present NDA government does not have blind faith in anyone. They started with throwing Avinash Chander, then indicted a IAF chief, then 2 Army Chiefs. They do whatever is in national interest.

IAF, which was the biggest lobby against Tejas was finally made to buy the plane. Once they get the whip, they fall in line. The only organization which had singularly lead the morcha to stall the development of Tejas had its chief inaugurate its maiden flight. Quite symbolic.


People must be reminded that they are there to further the interests of the nation. They are not pampered Ferrari racers who will be given fancy new stuff to satisfy their personal quests.
 

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