QUAD; The Concert of Democracies for Trade, Security & Diplomacy

Love Charger

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I have. Even want to read Mitrokhin archive, but don't have the time these days.
I too have done both , I agree we were infiltrated but it's good that we were infiltrated by kgb , again it was a honey trap .
A code book or some thing similar was given by a Indian embassy employee in Moscow to a female agent who honey trapped him ,that was in 50s when chacha was alive .
Indira Gandhi too was wooed , heck it Congress established a group called " friends of Soviet Union " to divert Soviet attention from the various commie parties .
But it was not all bad , kgb better anyday than cia
 

Love Charger

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Nehru had too much faith in IB , although KGB knew Indian men's weakness , or should I say tharak.
Honey trap was the solution to infiltrate the famed and dangerous IB.
 

Optimistic Nihilist

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I agree we were infiltrated but it's good that we were infiltrated by kgb
What?🤣🤣🤣

And the CIA is better than the ISI. Does that mean their infiltration should have been supported as well? Anyone who spied on us and tried to manipulate us for their benefits is someone who can never be trusted.
 

Love Charger

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What?🤣🤣🤣

And the CIA is better than the ISI. Does that mean their infiltration should have been supported as well? Anyone who spied on us and tried to manipulate us for their benefits is someone who can never be trusted.
We were lucky , it was kgb and not cia.
 

sorcerer

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Americans spied on all 5 eyes. This could become a gateway for them to spy more on us. This could help us in some areas, but screw us up in others. This gives me similar vibes to the time when KGB infiltrated us. Do we have any indication from our Government if they are interested in this marriage?
this job is always a give and take
 

Love Charger

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How exactly were we lucky?

If it was CIA, someone would say we were lucky it was CIA and not ISI. Nothing was "lucky" about that situation, it harmed us immensely.
Yes I agree to first part , still I can't wrap my head around trusting Americans .
This doesn't mean , we bow to the Chinese.
 

Optimistic Nihilist

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Yes I agree to first part , still I can't wrap my head around trusting Americans .
This doesn't mean , we bow to the Chinese.
We cannot trust anyone. The Soviets didn't "care" about us or particularly wanted to be our "friends". We were a means to an end, a convenient territory that they wanted to turn into a vassal state against America. All that matters to them is their Great Game. If we ought to despise them, both of them deserve equal amounts of contempt, I would say the Soviets even more, because they successfully managed to sabotage our country and hence we must be doubly guarded against the Communists this time around.
 

Hari Sud

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We cannot trust anyone. The Soviets didn't "care" about us or particularly wanted to be our "friends". We were a means to an end, a convenient territory that they wanted to turn into a vassal state against America. All that matters to them is their Great Game. If we ought to despise them, both of them deserve equal amounts of contempt, I would say the Soviets even more, because they successfully managed to sabotage our country and hence we must be doubly guarded against the Communists this time around.
‘Not true at all. …… India has moved away from Russia not otherwise.
 

HawkisRight

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India already shares intel wid murica from as early as 2008..Here is interesting read..

Some spicy info from above

"The founder members of the Pacific alliance were the spy agencies from the Five Eyes, as well as South Korea, Singapore, and Thailand. By 2013, France and India had joined the Pacific group. The NSA was particularly keen on having India on board as part of a broader U.S. government effort to improve relations with the country, and “felt strongly that India’s participation in multilateral intelligence sharing would help mature its Indian SIGINT agencies as well as provide regional [counterterrorism] expertise.” In March 2008, then-NSA Director Gen. Keith Alexander led a delegation of officials – including representatives from Singapore and New Zealand – to New Delhi, where he asked India’s spy agencies if they would like to join forces. Three months later, the Indians accepted."


"A downside of SIGINT Seniors is the risk that a partner will mishandle sensitive information. This happened on at least one occasion with India. By the time terrorists had struck Mumbai in a series of attacks in November 2008, the country had been admitted to the Pacific group. The NSA was passing the Indians selected top-secret material, such as interrogation reports and recordings of intercepted phone calls. In the weeks following the Mumbai incident, India began leaking some of the intelligence — “at times it seemed a daily occurrence,” the NSA’s country desk officer complained. The NSA limited the provisioning of top-secret information to India after repeated warnings and meetings left it dissatisfied. Still, the NSA, which had deployed analysts to India, remained hopeful Indian intelligence agencies would “mature … into the partners NSA needs in South Asia.”
 

ezsasa

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‘Not true at all. …… India has moved away from Russia not otherwise.
There was a poll conducted by brookings india in 2019 among senior retired bureaucrats and other senior people in Delhi circles, they felt china is our number one enemy not Pakistan. this is after Bhutan standoff before Galwan.

Indian Govt downplayed china as an adversary, but Indian bureaucratic establishment never trusted china, you will find this sentiment even in Sardar patel and Ambedkar’s writings on CCP. Congis tried to suppress this sentiment for decades, but it never went away. After the silly childish games Obama played with Putin in his second term, and pushed Russia from being a neutral player into completely into Chinese sphere, India reviewing it’s relationships was inevitable.

DFI’s biggest complaint against Indian establishment for years, is that they are reactive. in Russia’s case too we are reacting to a game that was played in Europe. but even today we don’t have negativity towards Russia.
 

Love Charger

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India already shares intel wid murica from as early as 2008..Here is interesting read..

Some spicy info from above

"The founder members of the Pacific alliance were the spy agencies from the Five Eyes, as well as South Korea, Singapore, and Thailand. By 2013, France and India had joined the Pacific group. The NSA was particularly keen on having India on board as part of a broader U.S. government effort to improve relations with the country, and “felt strongly that India’s participation in multilateral intelligence sharing would help mature its Indian SIGINT agencies as well as provide regional [counterterrorism] expertise.” In March 2008, then-NSA Director Gen. Keith Alexander led a delegation of officials – including representatives from Singapore and New Zealand – to New Delhi, where he asked India’s spy agencies if they would like to join forces. Three months later, the Indians accepted."


"A downside of SIGINT Seniors is the risk that a partner will mishandle sensitive information. This happened on at least one occasion with India. By the time terrorists had struck Mumbai in a series of attacks in November 2008, the country had been admitted to the Pacific group. The NSA was passing the Indians selected top-secret material, such as interrogation reports and recordings of intercepted phone calls. In the weeks following the Mumbai incident, India began leaking some of the intelligence — “at times it seemed a daily occurrence,” the NSA’s country desk officer complained. The NSA limited the provisioning of top-secret information to India after repeated warnings and meetings left it dissatisfied. Still, the NSA, which had deployed analysts to India, remained hopeful Indian intelligence agencies would “mature … into the partners NSA needs in South Asia.”
What they mean by mature here ?
 

not so dravidian

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What they mean by mature here ?
My best guess he refers to David Headley.

David Headley was an FBI informant and was sent to Pakistan several times for undercover info.

Its said that umreki had very thin some info on 26/11. David Headley also had also been involved in some other secret info gathering in Pakistan.

A Certain blogger had written extensively about this.

link is in my laptop with my brother. I'll try to get after sometime.
 

Hari Sud

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QUAD nearly died due to AUKUS.

Expectations were high for Asia (Japan & India) with QUAD negotiations making progress. But all hopes got dashed when a bolt from the blue struck that US and UK have struck a nuclear submarine deal behind everybody’s back to supply Australia 8 nuclear attack submarines. They believed that these will police the China Sea and Pacific Ocean and keep China under check.

It was not to be …….. During the negotiation of the QUAD agreement, the United States were working behind closed doors with Australia to provide these strong submarines. It was probably a good thing for Australia, even though it was not threatened in any way. It came as a surprise to India and Japan.

India had hoped that this agreement would make it possible to avoid two front wars with China and Pakistan. Again, it was not to be. China has greater influence over Pakistan than US. Hence the notion of QUAD has been pushed far down the American priority.

Japan has also been caught off guard. They depend 100% on American security. The rise of China threatens their security. The QUAD would have given them confidence in their safety.

Now what choices Japan and India have. Japan will abandon its pacifist constitution and build its armed forces against China's threat. It could take 20 years. For Indian choices are to escalate its defense budget, probably double it in the next 5-7 years and privatize making of a lot army, air force and navy hardware needs. Upgrading infrastructure in the Himalayas is a greater need today and must be accelerated within the next 3-5 years.

If Japan militarizes, and if India spends more money on defense, then the perception of the Chinese threat will probably be reversed. China will come under pressure from AUKUS, Japan and India. Pakistan would be in no position to join China and threaten India.
 

Tshering22

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QUAD nearly died due to AUKUS.

Expectations were high for Asia (Japan & India) with QUAD negotiations making progress. But all hopes got dashed when a bolt from the blue struck that US and UK have struck a nuclear submarine deal behind everybody’s back to supply Australia 8 nuclear attack submarines. They believed that these will police the China Sea and Pacific Ocean and keep China under check.

It was not to be …….. During the negotiation of the QUAD agreement, the United States were working behind closed doors with Australia to provide these strong submarines. It was probably a good thing for Australia, even though it was not threatened in any way. It came as a surprise to India and Japan.

India had hoped that this agreement would make it possible to avoid two front wars with China and Pakistan. Again, it was not to be. China has greater influence over Pakistan than US. Hence the notion of QUAD has been pushed far down the American priority.

Japan has also been caught off guard. They depend 100% on American security. The rise of China threatens their security. The QUAD would have given them confidence in their safety.

Now what choices Japan and India have. Japan will abandon its pacifist constitution and build its armed forces against China's threat. It could take 20 years. For Indian choices are to escalate its defense budget, probably double it in the next 5-7 years and privatize making of a lot army, air force and navy hardware needs. Upgrading infrastructure in the Himalayas is a greater need today and must be accelerated within the next 3-5 years.

If Japan militarizes, and if India spends more money on defense, then the perception of the Chinese threat will probably be reversed. China will come under pressure from AUKUS, Japan and India. Pakistan would be in no position to join China and threaten India.
I certainly hope we double our defence budget. Not only that, there are consecutive bans on import lists with regular updates as we proceed towards domestic platforms. But I don't see this happening until we see another war.

Wars are not good so please don't tell me that; I have 2 brothers who serve the motherland. But India woke up only after 1962 war. This is what we need now. To bring our IAS losers/mid-level politicians and national leadership to terms with the scale of the threat that the country is facing.

Cannot happen without a war.
 

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