Quadrilateral security dialogue (QUAD) - Resurrected!! News and Updates

Hariharan_kalarikkal

𝕱𝖔𝖔𝖑𝖘 𝖗𝖚𝖘𝖍 𝖆𝖓𝖉 𝖆𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑𝖘 𝖋𝖊𝖆𝖗
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2019
Messages
5,487
Likes
27,400
Country flag
After all the betrayal of China against India since the 1960's, and the fact that India's modern economic boom is in no small part facilitated by its trade with the US and the economic system championed and protected by the US, not to mention that India and the US are both English speakers, liberal democracies, and most of all, given the fact that most Indians would like to immigrate to the US, some Indians are still dreaming of China? This is not only scandalous.

This reminds me of the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me!"

If all major powers are snakes, then China is the worst of them all, the most treacherous and venomous. It must be contained if not defeated.
I have interacted with few Chinki tourists here, they spoke decent English,
Were lovely people, with deep respect for India and her culture, obviously I will not generalize my limited interaction with the whole of China
 

nWo 4 Life

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 16, 2021
Messages
2,225
Likes
11,269
Country flag
I have interacted with few Chinki tourists here, they spoke decent English,
Were lovely people, with deep respect for India and her culture, obviously I will not generalize my limited interaction with the whole of China
Which is why if it was the Han people governing China with nationalism as the dominant ideology, it would be extremely easy for China and India to be friends. But it's the Expansionist Chinese Communists controlling it right now, which is why all attempts at normalizing relations are futile.
 

Kumata

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
5,128
Likes
19,441
I have interacted with few Chinki tourists here, they spoke decent English,
Were lovely people, with deep respect for India and her culture, obviously I will not generalize my limited interaction with the whole of China
Nibba,

How do they bad things about india in india :) :)

I have met too many in neutral places and in their own land. rest, I don;t need to write down. In HKG, I got the canteen lady escalated me b,cause i asked her to cook a vegie rice for me while she was interested in serving me some random sea fish !!!!!!!!!!

U got to see them on flight where they will sit in ghettos and shout at each other from one aisle to other aisle for whole fucking 14 hours flight time jumping on seats like monkeys ... making undue demands to poor flight stewards ...

having worked with them... they always try to show u in bad light...racist to the core ..a chinese lady had a nervous breakdown b,cause i demanded her share of work from her... she conveniently got admitted in hospital... end result,, a project of 3 months took a year to complete....
 

Neeraj Mathur

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
729
Likes
1,283
Country flag
Gupta ji ass is burnt. Article says should he travel so much during active pandemic.

"Since the start of 2020, in 21 months, Jaishankar has visited 27 countries — only four of which were before India went into a strict lockdown in March 2020. Once that lockdown got over, in August last year, Jaishankar has been jet-setting across the globe again, even as newer variants of the coronavirus have continued to cause scares. "
 

maximus777

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2009
Messages
403
Likes
1,892
Country flag
Which is why if it was the Han people governing China with nationalism as the dominant ideology, it would be extremely easy for China and India to be friends. But it's the Expansionist Chinese Communists controlling it right now, which is why all attempts at normalizing relations are futile.
Bearing in mind that traditionally Hans are spiritualistic people, to me it appears like there is some deep seated civilizational inferiority complex among them v/s Bharat and it's culture. We have influenced and culturally dominated ancient China far longer than any other western power or imperial Japan. So much so that their so called "century of humiliation" does not talk about Bharat. This is what they are trying to get over with crockery like superior race theory, claims to lands/oceans based on some perceived sphere of influence, building grandiose things and so on. They don't give a flying fk about western culture which in their eyes is very materialistic/superficial and cannot compensate for their deep insecurities. I am referring to the senior minds in the CCP politburo who have a say and not the PLA "pride" brigade. Just my thoughts based on seemingly erratic/unpredictable CCP behavior against us.
 

asianobserve

Senior Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
11,381
Likes
6,586
Country flag
I have interacted with few Chinki tourists here, they spoke decent English,
Were lovely people, with deep respect for India and her culture, obviously I will not generalize my limited interaction with the whole of China

Chinkis here in the Philippines are mostly drug smugglers, smugglers of all other goods, law violators, fond of bribing government officials, tax evaders, you name it. I've never seen a greedier group of people.
 
Last edited:

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
4,512
Likes
1,289
Country flag
Bearing in mind that traditionally Hans are spiritualistic people, to me it appears like there is some deep seated civilizational inferiority complex among them v/s Bharat and it's culture.
Really? That is news for Chinese.

We have influenced and culturally dominated ancient China far longer than any other western power or imperial Japan.
Influenced? Yes! Not by Bharat but Buddhism.
Dominated? No...... Not even Buddhism.

So much so that their so called "century of humiliation" does not talk about Bharat.
Until 1990s, the number of Chinese people knowing "Bharat" was less than a few hundreds. You can't talk about something that you have never heard of.

This is what they are trying to get over with crockery like superior race theory, claims to lands/oceans based on some perceived sphere of influence, building grandiose things and so on. They don't give a flying fk about western culture which in their eyes is very materialistic/superficial and cannot compensate for their deep insecurities.
Well, basically their modernization is all about learning from west.
Until recently, US, UK, Japan and German are the top 5 countries that most of CCP officers head for training: from legal system to governance.

It is really hard to find a CCP leader without western training/education experience.
 

Tshering22

Sikkimese Saber
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
5,457
Likes
7,368
Country flag
Chinkis here in the Philippines are mostly drug smugglers, smugglers of all other goods, law violators, fond of bribing government officials, tax evaders, you name it. I've never seen a greedier group of people.
Indeed. Most of them have the same complex that several western countries had back in the post-War era; that they emerged economically better and equipped with more talent than others so somehow they are superior to others. Add to their materialism the fact that there is no spiritual sense of self-restrictions and you have the extremist consumerism that will leave American consumerism far behind.

I have heard of very negative reports about Chinese traders even in Indonesia and Malaysia, though the citizens are reasonably good people.

However, new arrivals from mainland in the southeast Asian countries are materialistic, opportunistic and downright ruthless.

Word has it that China still has Philippines' government in its pockets and that the Filipinos are mighty upset with their government for accepting so much loan that their sovereignty is at stake. Correct me if I am wrong.
 

Tshering22

Sikkimese Saber
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
5,457
Likes
7,368
Country flag
I have my reservations against the QUAD. Call me skeptical but there are just too many tell-tale signs of this group becoming another chai-pakora forum with lots of dialogs.

At best, it would be a good economic/commercial cooperation grouping which would be good for businesses from all the four countries. But expecting anything defence/foreign policy related from this group would be foolish.

You know, the QUAD would remain more like a dialog platform given the fickle American leadership and their disdain for the current format of governance in India. They are liberal elitists who resent the rise of any native civilizational force other than their own - they don't care even if that culture is friendly, they will still oppose it. Despite the best efforts of the US State Department and our MEA, their dislike for India's rising influence and willingness to participate as an independent player is evident.

While Australia and Japan are more than happy, the United States under Biden-Harris and the UK are not very happy. Look at how they try to give us short-end of the bargain in the area of vaccines. On one hand, the US wants us to manufacture American vaccines for the world, while on the other hand they ensured to destabilize their supply of vaccine raw materials, just to gain unfair advantage just before the second wave hit India a few months ago.

Similarly, the UK has put all vaccinated Indian travellers under the "RED" list i.e. classified all Indians travelling to the UK as 'unvaccinated' even through a majority of Indians have been jabbed with COVISHIELD which is the same formula that their company AstraZeneca uses. This is hypocrisy of the highest order.

China may be the adversary here, but they were smart to see this long back in the Anglophone world. France, despite being a loyal ally for years, got backstabbed and is angry at the Anglophones.

We need to understand that Japan and Australia are under written commitments the United States through treaties, and therefore will not raise their voices if something fizzles out between us and the latter. They will feel bad, but will quietly bow out while we will be left to deal with the mess.

___________________

IMHO, We should take this opportunity of the Anglophone's betrayal of France and and consolidate a strong, meaningful alliance with France as a second option. France has the most independent foreign policy as history has shown. Germany is Japan 2.0 and is just a US vassal state and given the likelihood of a Leftist government there (imagine to my surprise, Angela Merkel was considered a 'conservative' there!). Germany will go the Sweden way soon, leaving only France with a meaningful voice representing and leading the European Union.

We should capitalize this and strengthen our defence partnership even further by awarding NAVAL GROUP for P76 and P77 projects. That will considerably add heft to our foreign policy.
 

asianobserve

Senior Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
11,381
Likes
6,586
Country flag
Indeed. Most of them have the same complex that several western countries had back in the post-War era; that they emerged economically better and equipped with more talent than others so somehow they are superior to others. Add to their materialism the fact that there is no spiritual sense of self-restrictions and you have the extremist consumerism that will leave American consumerism far behind.

I have heard of very negative reports about Chinese traders even in Indonesia and Malaysia, though the citizens are reasonably good people.

However, new arrivals from mainland in the southeast Asian countries are materialistic, opportunistic and downright ruthless.

Word has it that China still has Philippines' government in its pockets and that the Filipinos are mighty upset with their government for accepting so much loan that their sovereignty is at stake. Correct me if I am wrong.

You ask around from my grandfather's generation who experienced American rule in the Philippines you will only hear good words for the Americans. My father-in-law who worked for an American logging and plywood factory in the Philippines in the 1960s-80s yearn for the days when their comoany was run by the Americans. He complained bitterly after it was sold to local Filipino-Chinese businessman (my father-in-law is half Chinese) in the 1990s. He said their American benefits suddenly disappeared and the Filipino-Chinese owner was only focused on his profit. He resigned early instead.

Regarding CCP penetration in the Philippine Government, well it struck gold. Their Manchurian candidate Duterte won. But the funny thing is while Duterte is so vocal in praising Xi and the Chinese, none of his cabinet, including his Foreign Secretary, openly do so. Duterte from the beginning of his term has vocally called for the scrapping of the US basing agreement but came out empty-handed. And the funniest of course is that his supporters (Dutertards) are most heavily anti-Chinese.

This is most likely the Chinese handler of Duterte, Michael Yang (look it up):

images (20).jpeg

images (22).jpeg


The Philippine military has silently pushed back against Duterte's surrender in the SCS by carrying out sovereignty patrols despite Duterte's pro-China talk.

And recently, with the International Criminal Court (ICC) case filed by victims of Duterte's murderous drugs war now moving, Duterte has all of a sudden become more US friendly. Personally, there's nothing more I want right niw than an ICC arrest warrant against him so that no Filipino President would so againt calously abuse his power and murder so many if his own poorest citizens that he swore to serve and protect.

As to AUKUS, the vast majority of Filipinos welcome it.
 
Last edited:

asianobserve

Senior Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
11,381
Likes
6,586
Country flag
Australia's partnership with US, UK beneficial in the long term — Locsin (Foreign Secretary)

Philippines, Australia finalize key defense logistics pact
 
Last edited:

Tshering22

Sikkimese Saber
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
5,457
Likes
7,368
Country flag
You ask around from my grandfather's generation who experienced American rule in the Philippines you will only hear good words for the Americans. My father-in-law who worked for an American logging and plywood factory in the Philippines in the 1960s-80s yearn for the days when their comoany was run by the Americans. He complained bitterly after it was sold to local Filipino-Chinese businessman (my father-in-law is half Chinese) in the 1990s. He said their American benefits suddenly disappeared and the Filipino-Chinese owner was only focused on his profit. He resigned early instead.

Regarding CCP penetration in the Philippine Government, well it struck gold. Their Manchurian candidate Duterte won. But the funny thing is while Duterte is so vocal in praising Xi and the Chinese, none of his cabinet, including his Foreign Secretary, openly do so. Duterte from the beginning of his term has vocally called for the scrapping of the US basing agreement but came out empty-handed. And the funniest of course is that his supporters (Dutertards) are most heavily anti-Chinese.

This is most likely the Chinese handler of Duterte, Michael Yang (look it up):

View attachment 111158
View attachment 111159

The Philippine military has silently pushed back against Duterte's surrender in the SCS by carrying out sovereignty patrols despite Duterte's pro-China talk.

And recently, with the International Criminal Court (ICC) case filed by victims of Duterte's murderous drugs war now moving, Duterte has all of a sudden become more US friendly. Personally, there's nothing more I want right niw than an ICC arrest warrant against him so that no Filipino President would so againt calously abuse his power and murder so many if his own poorest citizens that he swore to serve and protect.

As to AUKUS, the vast majority of Filipinos welcome it.
Well, the USA of the past and the USA of the present are completely different. I would understand that your grandfather's time would have been much more peaceful as things were more hunky-dory in the United States. That place had a semblance of being a country with more government control. Today, it is different.

American corporations at least do not hold back on the reward for hard work though. They pay decent wages and are not like China-based companies that are only there to leech your resources. But Philippines will have to choose one day and for itself. ASEAN today is dependent on 4 countries; Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore and Malaysia. Philippines needs to be the 5th power in that grouping. That can only happen if the people there do something about it.

Dueterte is not the problem; the structure of politics in your country is. I would go so far as to say that Philippines should not be anyone's pet project - USA, China or even India in the future. That is not a good thing. We as a country don't do pets, but you get the idea. You are a country of 110 million people; you are prominent enough to assert yourself and lookout for your interests. Take that stand and compete against China. The rest will automatically back you.

This coming election there's a 99.9% chance that Dueterte will go away. But then whatever you choose to do with the replacement will define your way forward.
 

asianobserve

Senior Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
11,381
Likes
6,586
Country flag
Well, the USA of the past and the USA of the present are completely different. I would understand that your grandfather's time would have been much more peaceful as things were more hunky-dory in the United States. That place had a semblance of being a country with more government control. Today, it is different.

American corporations at least do not hold back on the reward for hard work though. They pay decent wages and are not like China-based companies that are only there to leech your resources. But Philippines will have to choose one day and for itself. ASEAN today is dependent on 4 countries; Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore and Malaysia. Philippines needs to be the 5th power in that grouping. That can only happen if the people there do something about it.

Dueterte is not the problem; the structure of politics in your country is. I would go so far as to say that Philippines should not be anyone's pet project - USA, China or even India in the future. That is not a good thing. We as a country don't do pets, but you get the idea. You are a country of 110 million people; you are prominent enough to assert yourself and lookout for your interests. Take that stand and compete against China. The rest will automatically back you.

This coming election there's a 99.9% chance that Dueterte will go away. But then whatever you choose to do with the replacement will define your way forward.

The Philippines is ASEAN's 3rd biggest economy. The Philippines together with Thailand and Malaysia were the originators of ASEAN under ASA (which later in evolved into ASEAN plus Indonesia and Singapore in 1967). So we are a force of Asia. It's just sad to see that the present China lapdog Duterte has squandered our central role in the ASEAN.

As to neutrality, that is not possible for the Philippines due to our location. We are in the middle of the Pacific in between China and the US. We are the most strategic location and a major strategic military asset by either China or the US. We are like Belgium in WW1 and WW2. We would like to be neutral but our neutrality will only be violated because of our location. So the best thing for us is to choose aside and prepare for the worst (ironically, to prevent the worst from happening).

If we want to be neutral then we have to have a powerful enough military that should be able to withstand China, which is close to impossibility. So we need to lean on a wall against China's typhoon. Between the US and China, the US is the better power by a long margin. China is only good for autocrats.
 

Cheran

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
4,259
Likes
32,636
Country flag
Intresting development. If true, who could be behind this? Russians? Chinese? And what could be the purpose?

Intresting stuff.
Never ending game of intel. warfare.

Could be payback for something the CIA did elsewhere.

It is said that there is no consensus on Havana syndrome. Symptoms are wide ranging. Some MRIs show brain damage. Others say it is psychogenic. Some people say microwave/sonic weapons are behind this.
 

nWo 4 Life

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 16, 2021
Messages
2,225
Likes
11,269
Country flag
The US and China have been engaged in a pissing contest since the start of Obama's presidency. There's some provocation from one side, then the other side responds and the cycle continues. Vice President Harris and US diplomats have fanned out over Asia trying to seduce countries into a new Cold War block against China while for its part, Taiwan has become the stage for diplomatic and, occasionally, military provocations of China.

But helping Australia acquire nuclear-powered submarines is probably the biggest provocation thus far by the US because of two reasons.

Firstly, for the purpose of defending your maritime property against invading navies, a modern conventional submarine is adequate. Keep in mind that Australia canceled a $66 billion contract with France for twelve conventional submarines and switched to American nuclear submarines. The explanation provided by the Australian Prime Minister is that there were “very real issues about whether a conventional submarine capability” would address the "changes in the regional situation."

But the only change in the regional situation that would justify the change from conventional to nuclear submarines is the change from a defensive strategy to an attack strategy. Less than five years ago, Australia rejected nuclear submarines in favor of conventionally powered ones. This therefore is very provocative.

Also to bear in mind, US submarines are powered by very highly enriched 93.5% weapons grade uranium; Chinese submarines are powered by low enriched uranium. The enriched uranium used to power nuclear submarines is the second reason the US announcement is so provocative. It is provocative because of the US willingness to push the borders of the nuclear non-proliferation agreement (NPT), which it violates anyway by catering slavishly to Israel.

This agreement skirts around the borders of Article 4.1, which guarantees non-nuclear weapons states like Australia the use of "nuclear energy for peaceful purposes" and Article 4.2, which permits exchange of nuclear equipment "for the peaceful use of nuclear energy." As we saw earlier, nuclear-powered submarines are not defensive, but for attacking, which is not a "peaceful purpose."

This deal is especially concerning because US and UK submarines are fueled with weapon-grade uranium rather than the low-enriched uranium used by France and China.

The US announcement further shits on the NPT because the treaty discourages other countries from providing enriched uranium for non-peaceful activities. The US, however, supplies the UK with highly enriched uranium. Most likely the US would also supply the enriched uranium to Australia.

Both because the US-UK-Australia agreement transforms Australia’s submarine fleet from one that can defend against Chinese vessels to one that can attack Chinese vessels and because of the extraordinary US willingness to undermine the nuclear nonproliferation treaty, this new agreement brings American provocation of China to a threatening new level, one that might probably escalate to an islands war.
 
Last edited:

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
22,067
Likes
88,602
Country flag
The US and China have been engaged in a pissing contest since the start of Obama's presidency. There's some provocation from one side, then the other side responds and the cycle continues. Vice President Harris and US diplomats have fanned out over Asia trying to seduce countries into a new Cold War block against China while for its part, Taiwan has become the stage for diplomatic and, occasionally, military provocations of China.

But helping Australia acquire nuclear-powered submarines is probably the biggest provocation thus far by the US because of two reasons.

Firstly, for the purpose of defending your maritime property against invading navies, a modern conventional submarine is adequate. Keep in mind that Australia canceled a $66 billion contract with France for twelve conventional submarines and switched to American nuclear submarines. The explanation provided by the Australian Prime Minister is that there were “very real issues about whether a conventional submarine capability” would address the "changes in the regional situation."

But the only change in the regional situation that would justify the change from conventional to nuclear submarines is the change from a defensive strategy to an attack strategy. Less than five years ago, Australia rejected nuclear submarines in favor of conventionally powered ones. This therefore is very provocative.

Also to bear in mind, US submarines are powered by very highly enriched 93.5% weapons grade uranium; Chinese submarines are powered by low enriched uranium. The enriched uranium used to power nuclear submarines is the second reason the US announcement is so provocative. It is provocative because of the US willingness to push the borders of the nuclear non-proliferation agreement (NPT), which it violates anyway by catering slavishly to Israel.

This agreement skirts around the borders of Article 4.1, which guarantees non-nuclear weapons states like Australia the use of "nuclear energy for peaceful purposes" and Article 4.2, which permits exchange of nuclear equipment "for the peaceful use of nuclear energy." As we saw earlier, nuclear-powered submarines are not defensive, but for attacking, which is not a "peaceful purpose."

This deal is especially concerning because US and UK submarines are fueled with weapon-grade uranium rather than the low-enriched uranium used by France and China.

The US announcement further shits on the NPT because the treaty discourages other countries from providing enriched uranium for non-peaceful activities. The US, however, supplies the UK with highly enriched uranium. Most likely the US would also supply the enriched uranium to Australia.

Both because the US-UK-Australia agreement transforms Australia’s submarine fleet from one that can defend against Chinese vessels to one that can attack Chinese vessels and because of the extraordinary US willingness to undermine the nuclear nonproliferation treaty, this new agreement brings American provocation of China to a threatening new level, one that might probably escalate to an islands war.
Are nuclear subs without nuclear weapons an attack strategy?

Without primary or secondary strike capability, aren’t they just a long range naval reconnaissance platform.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top