Quadrilateral security dialogue (QUAD) - Resurrected!! News and Updates

hit&run

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It’s a good thing these opinions are being put on record. Decades later, we will get to say “I told you so”.
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Glad India led by PM has withheld recognition to Taliban regime. Here's why it poses a threat to the Indic civilisation.

I brought in civilisational perspective into the debate soon Taliban started to surround Kabul and Pakistanis started to celebrate.

There is no karma. Karma is a hoax. As far as the region is concern then it is good that it remain unsettled. This will help us in the long run to establish superiority of our civilisation after juxtaposing it against foreign cults.
 

nWo 4 Life

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In terms of containing China how many of you guys think US with everyone else will be able to do or how much of they will be able to achieve or will they fail in doing so, considering China have got US compromised at highest levels seeing all our old discussions or some instances we have seen in thier dealings with China recent one is their Armed forces calling and saying we will not attack you but if we do we will inform you about that beforehand.

And we should not forget about increasing power of China and declining of US due to woke culture.
Here's some information that presents a clearer picture:

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hit&run

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I think I missed some points made here on Australia becoming regional power comparable to India and China. The motion was against this possibility. Sorry, Australia is on a very strong trajectory to become a regional military power.
 

hit&run

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Seems that Australia could straightaway lease US and UK subs till they build their own. Makes sense, the delivery dates of the build were too far away.

Protecting sea lanes is a very costly assignment. With increased PLAN activity Australia was forced to start protecting its trade routes, littoral waters and beyond. Out classed and thinned out badly they wanted to improve their profile and got stuck with French submarine deal.

Since USA has been protecting these routes in Indo-Pacific regions and has a very big foot-print compare to France it was quite obvious for Australia to start working with USA. USA happily accepted their role which would reduce their own cost and offered subsurface platform for better interoperability.

With Trump at helm Australia and NZ were always on guard and sceptical of him. Reluctant and unsure Australia did not made any military or strategic overtures back and forth given Trump withdrew from TPP which was a brainchild of Obama.

It is ironic that the popular belief of Biden being a Chinese tool has got Australian trust against China but not Trump.
 

The Shrike

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<snip>
It is not that the Modi government is sitting tight and watching the unfolding security situation in maritime dimension. With new aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, INS Arighat SSBN, six new Kalvari class diesel attack submarines and Vishakhapatnam class of destroyers, the Indian Navy is going to be very potent force in the Indo-Pacific by 2025.
3 out of the 4 programs mentioned were not initiated by baba ji but legacy of previous UPA (or you could even argue NDA 1.0), What he should really be judged by is follow on SSK program, indigenous SSN program, LHD ship, follow on aircraft carrier programme. Counting major naval programs IIRC only 4 Destroyers (ok turns out this was also from UPA time) , 7 (+ 4 Russian) Frigates and some P8 + 24 Romeo helicopters can be credited to current government.
 

The Shrike

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Absolutely. I don't think this was done solely for containing China. It's about Australia, and by extension America, gaining control of the South China Sea, and to some extent, the Indian Ocean.

It's to restrict whichever country that might be on the rise to pose a challenge to the US. If today it's China, tomorrow it's going to be us.

Of course the Aussies and USA are claiming it's for "defense from China". But that in itself explains the hidden message.

What is made for defense can also be used for attack.
Good that people are finally realising that not only will will this affect China, but it will also result in erosion of our own relative military power. But there is still some cringe worthy reactions amongst interwebs defence chatterati:
1) US, UK and Australia have shown they are not trustworthy so we should kiss French arse instead.
2) We should protest this development diplomatically :facepalm: .
 

The Shrike

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Anyways, couple of predictions from my side on the next few years is:
  • UK will permanently station one of its 2 carriers (which they are currently finding unaffordable to fully man and deploy) to Australia, possibly under AU command and jointly manned by AU, UK and USN/Marines.
  • Australia will get an export version of the NGAD, possibly even Japan if they play their cards right. B21 bomber, as some have suggested, may b a bit too much for the Australians but we may see a permanent stationing of those of those bombers in Australia.
 

THESIS THORON

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Anyways, couple of predictions from my side on the next few years is:
  • UK will permanently station one of its 2 carriers (which they are currently finding unaffordable to fully man and deploy) to Australia, possibly under AU command and jointly manned by AU, UK and USN/Marines.
  • Australia will get an export version of the NGAD, possibly even Japan if they play their cards right. B21 bomber, as some have suggested, may b a bit too much for the Australians but we may see a permanent stationing of those of those bombers in Australia.
in simple terms austrailia will become a colony of us in defence sect
 

The Shrike

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in simple terms austrailia will become a colony of us in defence sect
They ARE a colony of UK (and more recently US) by design. The British monarch is the head of the state (they have QE's image in their currency) and post world war 2 they have taken part of every major US mil intervention, become part of five eyes etc. IMO this event mainly signifies the elevation of Australia from a side kick role to getting a seat in the ("West's") big boys table.
 

Jimih

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I think I missed some points made here on Australia becoming regional power comparable to India and China. The motion was against this possibility. Sorry, Australia is on a very strong trajectory to become a regional military power.
Australia has almost no domestic nuclear industry to speak of, presently there is one single research reactor operational in the country at Lucas Heights near Sydney. It is mainly used to produce medical isotopes and isn't involved in power generation.

This means that all the associated technology and potentially the actual submarine reactors themselves, will almost certainly need to be imported. This does present some major challenges, establishing a native nuclear reactor manufacturing capability could take a decade or two. They won't be producing their own reactors that's obvious.

The first fully Australian SSN won't be ready until 2040.
 

hit&run

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Australia has almost no domestic nuclear industry to speak of, presently there is one single research reactor operational in the country at Lucas Heights near Sydney. It is mainly used to produce medical isotopes and isn't involved in power generation.

This means that all the associated technology and potentially the actual submarine reactors themselves, will almost certainly need to be imported. This does present some major challenges, establishing a native nuclear reactor manufacturing capability could take a decade or two.

They won't be producing their own reactor that's obvious. So will might have an American backend or one from the UK.

The first fully Australian SSN won't be ready until 2040.
They have all the ingredients to start an advance MIC to cater their needs. It is just a matter of time and priorities they deem fit. More Chinese threat will become perceptible more they will start moving towards JV’s and start absorbing technologies. Highly skilled population already using a lot of modern age machines in every aspect of industry and trade. Highly organised institutions, top ranking universities, work culture guided by individual boards and auditors ensuring quality, safety and rights they can catch up fast.

Furthermore they are rich and have blessing of USA who has been using their ports, stationing special forces units and has been allowed to use their airspace for long range surveillance drones over Pacific.
 

hit&run

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Nuclear or non nuclear notwithstanding the doctrine of having subsurface strike capabilities is all about carrying the strike package safely and deliver it.

Furthermore the doctrine is shaped by the kind of adversary you have or the ‘overwhelming’ factor of his capabilities.

If your adversary is USA then you are already overwhelmed by their capabilities. But just for theory sake you will need long endurance minimum required capabilities like Russia has to make them think before any conventional misadventure. If you are Australia and your adversary is China then you do not need that kind of long endurance but good tactical response, clever strategies, better management of resources to find a window of attack.

The overwhelming factor is absent and Chinese know it.

India has nothing to worry because our long term vision is still not showing any indication of gaining pre or post confrontation relevance but to avoid it and remain a poly-aligned regional power.
 

Jimih

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Nuclear or non nuclear notwithstanding the doctrine of having subsurface strike capabilities is all about carrying the strike package safely and deliver it.

Furthermore the doctrine is shaped by the kind of adversary you have or the ‘overwhelming’ factor of his capabilities.

If your adversary is USA then you are already overwhelmed by their capabilities. But just for theory sake you will need long endurance minimum required capabilities like Russia has to make them think before any conventional misadventure. If you are Australia and your adversary is China then you do not need that kind of long endurance but good tactical response, clever strategies, better management of resources to find a window to attack.

The overwhelming factor is absent and Chinese know it.

India has nothing to worry because our long term vision is still not showing any indication of gaining pre or post confrontation relevance but to avoid it and remain a poly-aligned regional power.
"US is building a NATO like alliance in the Indo-Pacific region, with AUKUS at the core, and the US-Japan and US-South Korea alliances surrounding it, and the QUAD at the outermost level, because India, not an US treaty ally, can't be trusted by the US."
-Chinese scholar Li Haidong
 

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