Quadrilateral security dialogue (QUAD) - Resurrected!! News and Updates

Pugilist

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
138
Likes
1,019
Country flag
AUKUS alliance will strengthen QUAD. Just like 5 eyes alliance strengthened NATO.
Agree with this.

Wonderful and long overdue for Australia. Will be a massive leap in capabilities.

Taken together with F35s, new next generation destroyers, new missiles and drones (which India may play a part in), Australia will pack a mighty punch (like me in my prime - lol) in the next few decades for a middle power.

The liberal government in Australia has certainly ramped its defence focus many fold all with China firmly in mind. Australia/China relationship is done for good no matter who is in power here and most Aussies know and appreciate this. Yes there will be trade and China will have a large share of that, but that’s the nature of what Australia has to sell China.

That Morrison called Modi before the announcement and briefed him on it says a lot re India’s standing now. India has its own SSN and SSBN programmes it should be proud of and India (especially under Modi) is capable of much more.

Otherwise I have to say gosh what a bunch of cynical and insecure lot some here are. The fact is Australia/US/UK share an extremely close cultural and historical bond meaning Australians will always get preferential treatment from US and UK. Also don’t forget Australia has invoked the ANZUS alliance every time the US has gone to war for many decades now and faithfully jumped in with the US meaning the US love the Aussies even more.

SSN’s coming out of the East Indian Ocean is a good thing for India vis a vie China and the overall Indo-Pacific.
 

Jimih

Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2021
Messages
4,896
Likes
27,074
Country flag
Here jaishankar had made it clear that we ll never be part of any alliance system


I dnt think india prepared to be completely NATO level ally with any country as that ll require difficult steps .. Something like stoping trade with Iran like we did after which China promised to invest billions in Iran and we lost billion dollar Farzad B gas mine and our position in Afghanistan .. Also it ll mean Antagonising Russia upon which we are depended for defence equipment and future energy requirement ..

Indian mindset right now is we dnt want to annoy anyone unless forced to like china on LAC .. And take benifits from everyone ..

And future of USA is not certain as well .. the way SJW folks asserting themselves .. It wont be long before they ll be in serious decision making places .. BJP in india is here to stay untill a serious centrist leader emerge in opposition .. And that ll cause trouble ..
I wld love to see india something like France not something like UK which is lieutnant of USA as it reaches upper middle income level ..
Resurgence of QUAD was a Trump's brainchild, before that it was a dead entity.

Previous Australian govt under Chinese influence totally abandoned it.

Whats with QUAD anyways? if China give good trade deals to US and stop manipulating its currency, than US might abandon it. Only India and Japan has to worry about China because both share borders, one land border and other maritime border.

Reactivation of QUAD was done when Trump initiated the Trade Wars and was having a hard time with China during his presidency.
 

Tridev123

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
602
Likes
2,083
Country flag
Asia has had 3 main power center's throughout centuries.

Bharat china and japan. All 3 were taken out by the west post industrialization at different points of time as they fought alone.

Slowly but steadily all 3 nations have bounced back and are aiming for regional and global dominance with India and china taking the lead and japan following close after as they continue to fully create a indigenous war industry.

China had the once in a millennium opportunity to actually do good for once and secure alliances around Asia. A pan Asian block with two most populus consumer markets and high end technological nations would have secured the fate of asia for decades to come.

But no they have to be a bitch and fuck it up for everyone.

The west is doing everything in its power to take china and India out. If even one falls then the other's fall is guaranteed.
I understand your anxiety for the country. But cool down Bro.
It will not be so easy to take down India.
Maybe about 2 decades ago we would have been quite vulnerable.
But today's India can make the costs unaffordable for the opponent.

India cannot be taken down militarily by even the United States.
We have both quite advanced nuclear deterrent and formidable conventional weapons capability. The Brahmos missile alone can make the waters hot for any hostile naval force. We have hundreds of them.

I don't think we should assume that the US wants to take down India at this point of time in history. India is the only power in Asia with a population comparable to China and an economic potential equal to it.

China cannot be taken down militarily in an open military operation as the costs will be prohibitive.There has to be an internal breakdown of governance in China and chaos and disorder there before any external force can try to dismember it. So the US will try to avoid being the aggressor in the near future. It can only try to enlist the help of countries like India, Japan, Indonesia, S. Korea, Vietnam etc and counter China economically and politically.

I would think that India will play a crucial part in checkmating China and the US cannot afford to alienate India.
 

HitmanBlood

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
731
Likes
4,777
Country flag
Asia has had 3 main power center's throughout centuries.

Bharat china and japan. All 3 were taken out by the west post industrialization at different points of time as they fought alone.

Slowly but steadily all 3 nations have bounced back and are aiming for regional and global dominance with India and china taking the lead and japan following close after as they continue to fully create a indigenous war industry.

China had the once in a millennium opportunity to actually do good for once and secure alliances around Asia. A pan Asian block with two most populus consumer markets and high end technological nations would have secured the fate of asia for decades to come.

But no they have to be a bitch and fuck it up for everyone.

The west is doing everything in its power to take china and India out. If even one falls then the other's fall is guaranteed.
If it wasn't for petty territorial ambitions of China, had they understood value of its neighbours, a China India Japan alliance would've surpassed any western grouping add Taiwan and S. Korea in it and you have a force like no other. Heck China being major power in Asia should've taken lead in regional peace process, Not create powerful enemies in its own backyard.

Its sad that China doesn't want to see the bigger picture. They are still living in their middle kingdom fantasy BS. I give props to Modi that he atleast tried to build better relationship with China in his first term.

The biggest strength of USA isn't military or economy but its loyal allies all over the world.

I kind of agree with @Blank its decades of propaganda and isolation from rest of the world is having an effect on their minds.
 

Abtron3

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
94
Likes
512
Country flag
If it wasn't for petty territorial ambitions of China, had they understood value of its neighbours, a China India Japan alliance would've surpassed any western grouping add Taiwan and S. Korea in it and you have a force like no other. Heck China being major power in Asia should've taken lead in regional peace process, Not create powerful enemies in its own backyard.

Its sad that China doesn't want to see the bigger picture. They are still living in their middle kingdom fantasy BS. I give props to Modi that he atleast tried to build better relationship with China in his first term.

The biggest strength of USA isn't military or economy but its loyal allies all over the world.

I kind of agree with @Blank its decades of propaganda and isolation from rest of the world is having an effect on their minds.
Are yaar you have to understand China never going to make allies with Japan they still broadcast fictional programs about true Nanjing massacre on daily basis.
The century of shame is in school curriculum.
It's like saying India and Pakistan should be friends and uproot the terrorism together.
CCP is surviving on hardcore nationalism the moment they tried make allies like Japan or India the party will fall from within.
 

HawkisRight

Senior Member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
1,578
Likes
9,009
Country flag
If it wasn't for petty territorial ambitions of China, had they understood value of its neighbours, a China India Japan alliance would've surpassed any western grouping add Taiwan and S. Korea in it and you have a force like no other. Heck China being major power in Asia should've taken lead in regional peace process, Not create powerful enemies in its own backyard.

Its sad that China doesn't want to see the bigger picture. They are still living in their middle kingdom fantasy BS. I give props to Modi that he atleast tried to build better relationship with China in his first term.

The biggest strength of USA isn't military or economy but its loyal allies all over the world.

I kind of agree with @Blank its decades of propaganda and isolation from rest of the world is having an effect on their minds.
Nah brother.. India china cold war is going on for centuries...Read about chinese eunuch general Zheng He..In 14th century chinese promoted islam to undercut the Hinduism in today's Malaysia which was then a southern hindu empires vassal.. chinese tried in 14th century maritime silk route through srilanka to Africa in indian Ocean just like they r doing it today with string of pearls..chinks even meddled in kerala in 14th century guess what which kind of ideology runs in kerala today.. Singapore's name comes from Singh Pura now chinks rule dat place.. China has always seen India as enemy both countries didn't fight hot war just cause of tibet was buffer all these centuries..After tibet gone(thnx to chewtiya nehru) in 1950s u know what chinks did in 62...so come out this hindi chini bhai bhai
 

Indrajit

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
2,340
Likes
6,357
Country flag
Still you don't get the point , to obtain us tech we will have to ditch the Russians completely.
Has russia done any noise when we purchased apache instead of mi 28 or chinook instead of mi 26 ?
No, I get the point fairly well. As for Russia, remember the sudden approaches to Pakistan now and then plus what they are doing with China which is a much more serious threat to India.

Other Countries are realistic, we must be too. Our interest are ours, our business to safeguard them. We shouldn’t expect charity, we should be clear headed about our interests, no point in knee jerk reactions.
 

Knowitall

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Messages
5,354
Likes
21,400
Agree with this.

Wonderful and long overdue for Australia. Will be a massive leap in capabilities.

Taken together with F35s, new next generation destroyers, new missiles and drones (which India may play a part in), Australia will pack a mighty punch (like me in my prime - lol) in the next few decades for a middle power.

The liberal government in Australia has certainly ramped its defence focus many fold all with China firmly in mind. Australia/China relationship is done for good no matter who is in power here and most Aussies know and appreciate this. Yes there will be trade and China will have a large share of that, but that’s the nature of what Australia has to sell China.

That Morrison called Modi before the announcement and briefed him on it says a lot re India’s standing now. India has its own SSN and SSBN programmes it should be proud of and India (especially under Modi) is capable of much more.

Otherwise I have to say gosh what a bunch of cynical and insecure lot some here are. The fact is Australia/US/UK share an extremely close cultural and historical bond meaning Australians will always get preferential treatment from US and UK. Also don’t forget Australia has invoked the ANZUS alliance every time the US has gone to war for many decades now and faithfully jumped in with the US meaning the US love the Aussies even more.

SSN’s coming out of the East Indian Ocean is a good thing for India vis a vie China and the overall Indo-Pacific.
White people prospering is never a good thing for India or the world in general and there is centuries of oppression behind us to back what I say.

Nazis for Jews and whites for Indians is the same thing.
 
Last edited:

Knowitall

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Messages
5,354
Likes
21,400
India should try and form alliances with japan Philippines indonesia and other like minded asia countries.

Next we need to sort out our own neighbourhood and bring everyone under our grasp.


These two steps will be more than enough to keep china at bay while we deal with pakistan.
 

Indrajit

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
2,340
Likes
6,357
Country flag
India should try and form alliances with japan Philippines indonesia and other like minded asia countries.

Next we need to sort out our own neighbourhood and bring everyone under our grasp.


These two steps will be more than enough to keep china at bay while we deal with pakistan.
Pie in the sky idea. Why would any ASEAN country want to align with india? What can we offer them? Why would they risk antagonizing China when they know India wouldn't be able to do anything militarily. We need to be realistic, QUAD works because of the US, without it, the other three can't do much on their own. The sum of the parts works perfectly here.

As for sorting out our neighborhood, sure but how exactly would one go about that. If it was easy to do, it would have been done already.
 

Knowitall

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Messages
5,354
Likes
21,400
Pie in the sky idea. Why would any ASEAN country want to align with india? What can we offer them? Why would they risk antagonizing China when they know India wouldn't be able to do anything militarily. We need to be realistic, QUAD works because of the US, without it, the other three can't do much on their own. The sum of the parts works perfectly here.

As for sorting out our neighborhood, sure but how exactly would one go about that. If it was easy to do, it would have been done already.
First point I agree with you the second not so much.

India already showed china it's cards when we installed a favourable govt in nepal after oli's gand masti.

Now protesting against India and modi is banned there.

Similarly in Mauritius we successfully managed to bring a favourable govt and ousted a china friendly maniac.

In bangladesh we have hasina who is also pro India and at loggerheads with china.

That's 3 down.

Sri lanka is already going through a major crises and I expect us to play our cards soon.

So leaving aside myanmar and afghanistan our neighborhood is sorted as of now.
 

Covfefe

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2021
Messages
888
Likes
5,219
Country flag
A few points from this AUKUS development-

1) Australia-UK-US have declared a security partnership aimed at enhancing military capabilities and interoperability. Although all the 3 nations are already under a treaty of a military alliance, the move is being seen as an opportunity to upgrade the Australian defences to match the challenges posed by China in the Pacific.

2) US and UK will help Australia secure the nuclear submarine technology which will aid the Australian forces with a high endurance platform. The progression for the Australian submarine program only looks natural- it has an EEZ of 10.2 million sq km and a coastline of 60,000 km. SSNs should have been their go-to choice given the long deployments they may undergo.

3) The US already stationed a Patriot missile defense system in Australia sometime back, and now Australia is planning to purchase Tomahawk cruise missiles from them. With their extensive range, these weapon platforms make a lot of sense for the Aussies to have.

4) F35s, SSNs, FA18s, Tomahawks- in the Pacific and not owned by the US, is something that makes China uncomfortable.

5) It should be a welcome step for India that the Aussies are bringing their military game up to their threat perception from China. It will change the PLA's deployment equations across theatres (ref- the majority of their superior air assets Su 35s, J16s are stationed in their Eastern Theatre command).

6) This move also breaks a major mental blockade among military suppliers- they can "help" other countries with their SSN programs.

7) French are pissed off due to this loss of contract. If only the GoI is not stupid enough, they should just contact them and let a private firm like L&T partner with them to make some good goddamn submarines. P75i has been stuck around forever now, this is the time.

Also, to my desi biradars who think that India is being cut off from Quad- well, the hesitancy lies on both sides to declare it a military alliance. India has her own geopolitical realities which we cannot simply wish it away(America has way too many enemies in this region). We live next to the snake yard these guys want to put a barbed wire over. India cannot be cowed down by China and definitely not in the Himalayas, and the Chinese know that. As far as Indo-Pacific is concerned, if each of the member countries can hold their fort well, the numerical and qualitative superiority over the Chinese is here to stay for quite some time. Rather than looking for a super elusive endgame(attacking China, eliminating CCP, nuclear war, blah blah..), which is a tempting thought, we just need to dance as the music plays- make friends in the ASEAN, fix our infrastructure, work on innovation centred economy, give the West an alternative to China and keep making the "stick" bigger.

Also, chill the fuck out.
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
21,311
Likes
84,558
Country flag
If we apply my binary paradigm, the US & UK just punished France for being too vocal against china within EU and beyond.
So the answer is Valid .
#US-CCP PARADIGM

Let's test out a theory since it is early days in the new murican administration, we get to make observations afresh. lots of stuff will be happening around the world some relevant mostly irrelevant. since CCP is on our minds these days, we could test out probable causes of relevant/interesting events against a proposed theory or paradigm.

I propose a paradigm "Any country that has ongoing unresolved issue with CCP, will be at the receiving end of American administration directly or thru their various instruments of their foreign policy"

Answer will be either "Valid" or "Invalid" .

For example :
1) Current Australian govt has an issue with CCP, but google has threatened Australia. In this scenario paradigm gets "Valid", because google is an instrument of murican foreign policy.
2) Taiwan has a historical problem with CCP, but murican administration starts recognising Taiwan. In this scenario, paradigm is "Invalid".

No hurry, we can test it out for years to come. if anyone is interested in improving it further, you are welcome, but objective is to measure an event in simple binary.
 

HitmanBlood

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
731
Likes
4,777
Country flag
A few points from this AUKUS development-

1) Australia-UK-US have declared a security partnership aimed at enhancing military capabilities and interoperability. Although all the 3 nations are already under a treaty of a military alliance, the move is being seen as an opportunity to upgrade the Australian defences to match the challenges posed by China in the Pacific.

2) US and UK will help Australia secure the nuclear submarine technology which will aid the Australian forces with a high endurance platform. The progression for the Australian submarine program only looks natural- it has an EEZ of 10.2 million sq km and a coastline of 60,000 km. SSNs should have been their go-to choice given the long deployments they may undergo.

3) The US already stationed a Patriot missile defense system in Australia sometime back, and now Australia is planning to purchase Tomahawk cruise missiles from them. With their extensive range, these weapon platforms make a lot of sense for the Aussies to have.

4) F35s, SSNs, FA18s, Tomahawks- in the Pacific and not owned by the US, is something that makes China uncomfortable.

5) It should be a welcome step for India that the Aussies are bringing their military game up to their threat perception from China. It will change the PLA's deployment equations across theatres (ref- the majority of their superior air assets Su 35s, J16s are stationed in their Eastern Theatre command).

6) This move also breaks a major mental blockade among military suppliers- they can "help" other countries with their SSN programs.

7) French are pissed off due to this loss of contract. If only the GoI is not stupid enough, they should just contact them and let a private firm like L&T partner with them to make some good goddamn submarines. P75i has been stuck around forever now, this is the time.

Also, to my desi biradars who think that India is being cut off from Quad- well, the hesitancy lies on both sides to declare it a military alliance. India has her own geopolitical realities which we cannot simply wish it away(America has way too many enemies in this region). We live next to the snake yard these guys want to put a barbed wire over. India cannot be cowed down by China and definitely not in the Himalayas, and the Chinese know that. As far as Indo-Pacific is concerned, if each of the member countries can hold their fort well, the numerical and qualitative superiority over the Chinese is here to stay for quite some time. Rather than looking for a super elusive endgame(attacking China, eliminating CCP, nuclear war, blah blah..), which is a tempting thought, we just need to dance as the music plays- make friends in the ASEAN, fix our infrastructure, work on innovation centred economy, give the West an alternative to China and keep making the "stick" bigger.

Also, chill the fuck out.
Really interesting read.

Point no 7) French are pissed but not just for sub contact but the way they where ignored in Asia by Americans. Before NATO and WW2 there was a rivalry between UK and France. This still continues to this day but in friendly manner. Because of this US always made sure to treat France and UK equally as possible. This is after a very long time France is feeling left out and that too in the most important region in the world.

Point no 6) I agree other countries too will demand similar tech. especially countries in EU and long time US allies like Japan will definitely demand similar tech. It will be difficult for US to say no. This could make many allies unhappy.

Australia has issues with China but it's not in any immediate danger from China. Australia would be last country in Asia Pacific region were China might think about military invasion.
The country that is at immediate risk is Taiwan. There is no military tech transfer or any alliance being made with them. Philippines, Japan and India are also at risk. Even S Korea is at risk from Chinese dog Kim Jong. America isn't doing any favours to them.

Australia represents a country of Anglo-Saxons in Asian hemisphere. They also represent a European civilization in Asia. With increasing growth of Asian countries like Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, China, Singapore, Vietnam and India estern influence is increasing and Australia the flag bearer of western civilization in Asia Pacific has become a second rate power. Infact recently Australia has become almost irrelevant in Asia Pacific region. Even in QUAD Australia is the weakest link.

Now other powerful Anglo-Saxon countries have come to help their cousin Australia. The goal is not just to contain China. They don't need Australian land for missile installation or submarine ports. They already have Diago Garcia, Guam and British Virgin Islands. They have permanent military bases in Japan, S Korea and Philippines.

So what kind of help they are providing?

There is word in Punjabi "Chodhary" a strong powerful guy in a village who everyone fears and respects. China thinks they are Chodhary of Asia, Japan thinks with QUAD initiative they will become Chodhary of Asia, In India we think by being friendly with USA we will become Chodhary in Asia.

The Chodhary has been crowned. Its Australia.

Now one may say some SSNs and CMs won't make them Choudhary but my argument is you also don't need an alliance to sell SSNs and CMs. This AUKUS is much more than that. Under this alliance they will help Australia in every technological sector. They will give most advanced weapons and its subsystems to Australia. Just like when US once gave away their top secret tech to UK they will do the same with Australia. Subs, Miniature reactors, CMs, BMs, semiconductor tech, space rockets, jet engines, stealth, all will come to Australia. So in few decades with outside help Australia will outpace not just China but every country in Asia.

What happens then?

Australia will not be as humble as they are today. Just like US and UK one day Aussies drunk on power will start directing their will on Asian countries. Slowly America and UK may handover some defence installation to powerful Australia so they can focus their energy elsewhere.

Why do this?

USA is no longer as powerful as they once were. They are slowly loosing their grip on the world especially in Asia. How long USA can do petrols in SCS. How long can they defend Asian waters with increasingly powerful China. They needed a Choudhary to do their bidding. So who can they trust? Japan? No they fought war with them and memories of Perl Harbour are still there on American minds. India? They don't trust us at all. Philippines, Vietnam none qualify. So who is left. Australia. A white western country ruled by British Queen right next to Asia. Ofcourse they chose Australia. It's the most logical choice for them.

This AUKUS alliance is really a 3d chess move in Asia.


Fun fact

American Nuclear Subs use highly enriched uranium. If Australia gets the same tech they maybe regularly enriching their uranium at very high levels. I am not saying they will go nuclear but with subs+missiles+highly enriched uranium, it won't be that far fetched either.
 
Last edited:

Jimih

Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2021
Messages
4,896
Likes
27,074
Country flag
If we apply my binary paradigm, the US & UK just punished France for being too vocal against china within EU and beyond.
So the answer is Valid .
#US-CCP PARADIGM
Who will be next?
 

ezsasa

Designated Cynic
Mod
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
21,311
Likes
84,558
Country flag
Really interesting read.

Point no 7) French are pissed but not just for sub contact but the way they where ignored in Asia by Americans. Before NATO and WW2 there was a rivalry between UK and France. This still continues to this day but in friendly manner. Because of this US always made sure to treat France and UK equally as possible. This is after a very long time France is feeling left out and that too in the most important region in the world.

Point no 6) I agree other countries too will demand similar tech. especially countries in EU and long time US allies like Japan will definitely demand similar tech. It will be difficult for US to say no. This could make many allies unhappy.

Australia has issues with China but it's not in any immediate danger from China. Australia would be last country in Asia Pacific region were China might think about military invasion.
The country that is at immediate risk is Taiwan. There is no military tech transfer or any alliance being made with them. Philippines, Japan and India are also at risk. Even S Korea is at risk from Chinese dog Kim Jong. America isn't doing any favours to them.

Australia represents a country of Anglo-Saxons in Asian hemisphere. They also represent a European civilization in Asia. With increasing growth of Asian countries like Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, China, Singapore, Vietnam and India estern influence is increasing and Australia the flag bearer of western civilization in Asia Pacific has become a second rate power. Infact recently Australia has become almost irrelevant in Asia Pacific region. Even in QUAD Australia is the weakest link.

Now other powerful Anglo-Saxon countries have come to help their cousin Australia. The goal is not just to contain China. They don't need Australian land for missile installation or submarine ports. They already have Diago Garcia, Guam and British Virgin Islands. They have permanent military bases in Japan, S Korea and Philippines.

So what kind of help they are providing?

There is word in Punjabi "Chodhary" a strong powerful guy in a village who everyone fears and respects. China thinks they are Chodhary of Asia, Japan thinks with QUAD initiative they will become Chodhary of Asia, In India we think by being friendly with USA we will become Chodhary in Asia.

The Chodhary has been crowned. Its Australia.

Now one may say some SSNs and CMs won't make them Choudhary but my argument is you also don't need an alliance to sell SSNs and CMs. This AUKUS is much more than that. Under this alliance they will help Australia in every technological sector. They will give most advanced weapons and its subsystems to Australia. Just like when US once gave away their top secret tech to UK they will do the same with Australia. Subs, Miniature reactors, CMs, BMs, semiconductor tech, space rockets, jet engines, stealth, all will come to Australia. So in few decades with outside help Australia will outpace not just China but every country in Asia.

What happens then?

Australia will not be as humble as they are today. Just like US and UK one day Aussies drunk on power will start directing their will on Asian countries. Slowly America and UK may handover some defence installation to powerful Australia so they can focus their energy elsewhere.

Why do this?

USA is no longer as powerful as they once were. They are slowly loosing their grip on the world especially in Asia. How long USA can do petrols in SCS. How long can they defend Asian waters with increasingly powerful China. They needed a Choudhary to do their bidding. So who can they trust? Japan? No they fought war with them and memories of Perl Harbour are still there on American minds. India? They don't trust us at all. Philippines, Vietnam none qualify. So who is left. Australia. A white western country ruled by British Queen right next to Asia. Ofcourse they chose Australia. It's the most logical choice for them.

This AUKUS alliance is really a 3d chess move in Asia.


Fun fact

American Nuclear Subs use highly enriched uranium. If Australia gets the same tech they maybe regularly enriching their uranium at very high levels. I am not saying they will go nuclear but with subs+missiles+highly enriched uranium, it won't be that far fetched either.
But aussies do not have the military manpower to enforce anything for entire indo pacific, their diplomatic fiefdom is limited south pacific.
 

HitmanBlood

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
731
Likes
4,777
Country flag
But aussies do not have the military manpower to enforce anything for entire indo pacific, their diplomatic fiefdom is limited south pacific.
Maybe it will change in future. My post wasn't really a prediction but rather a speculation of things to come. We are talking about top secret treaties and long term military planning anything can happen.
 

werewolf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
37
Likes
250
Country flag
Maybe it will change in future. My post wasn't really a prediction but rather a speculation of things to come. We are talking about top secret treaties and long term military planning anything can happen.
Very good analysis.
For me for the time being it will be a deal that was formalised into alliance. The yank MIC just couldn't stop salivating at 45B$ deal. But opinions are subject to change. The aussies were already using some us ssn tech like acoustic tiles , combat control system of virginia class in their collins class.
But it also is good for us in hindsight as it will stretch china's resources.
 

Wisemarko

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
718
Likes
1,177
Country flag
How AUKUS submarine deal sealed at the G7 summit
Source: Mailonline 11:29 EDT 16 Sep 2021

Australian PM Scott Morrison asked Biden for secret US nuclear tech to take on China at G7 after first getting Boris onboard - then ditched 'rip off' $90bn French contract

This is the moment that Australia, the UK and the US put pen to paper on their new military alliance as , and met on the sidelines of June's G7 summit in Cornwall.

It was the culmination of an 18-month plan devised by Mr Morrison to acquire his country's first nuclear-powered submarines, allowing Australia to push back against an increasingly aggressive .

The plot is thought to have been hatched in early 2020 when Mr Morrison asked a team of scientists, Navy top brass, engineers and other experts to look again at a deal Australia had signed with with France to buy 12 diesel-powered subs and to see whether better options existed.

Ultimately, the task force concluded that going nuclear - an option that Australia has long-resisted because it lacks a domestic nuclear industry and is committed to nuclear non-proliferation - would be a better option than paying France $90billion for its vessels, after the cost ballooned from the $50billion they first agreed on.

In late 2020, Mr Morrison instructed his defence chiefs to begin 'engaging the systems' by briefing the UK and the US on his plans, according to a source who spoke with the , leading to a conversation with Boris Johnson in May this year.

Mr Johnson agreed to set up talks with Joe Biden at the G7 a few weeks later, with the trio finally meeting on June 13 - the final day of the summit. It was during this meeting that Biden agreed for the first time in more than 50 years to share the secrets of America's nuclear submarines with a third country. Britain is the only other nation to have acquired such technology.

Australia is now set to get its hands on at least eight nuclear-powered submarines which will likely cost less than the $7.5billion-per vessel that France was offering. While the exact design and costs of Australia's subs have yet to be revealed, US Virginia-class nuclear subs cost around $4.5bn each and UK Astute-class $2.6bn each.

Scott Morrison meeting with Boris Johnson and Joe Biden at the G7 summit in Cornwall back in June, where the trio put pen to paper on a new military alliance that will give Australia its first nuclear-powered submarines

Scott Morrison meeting with Boris Johnson and Joe Biden at the G7 summit in Cornwall back in June, where the trio put pen to paper on a new military alliance that will give Australia its first nuclear-powered submarines
The meeting was the culmination of an 18-month plan to acquire the technology by Mr Morrison (left), who first pitched the idea to Boris Johnson (right, with wife Carrie Symonds) before arranging a three-way sit-down with Biden

The meeting was the culmination of an 18-month plan to acquire the technology by Mr Morrison (left), who first pitched the idea to Boris Johnson (right, with wife Carrie Symonds) before arranging a three-way sit-down with Biden
Australia is now set to acquire at least eight nuclear-powered submarines to present a counter-balance to Beijing's growing navy, and will also be sharing other advanced military technologies with Washington and London

Australia is now set to acquire at least eight nuclear-powered submarines to present a counter-balance to Beijing's growing navy, and will also be sharing other advanced military technologies with Washington and London
The pact does not make the design of Australia's new submarines clear, but they will be based on previous US and UK designs. Pictured above is a cross-section of Britain's Astute-class nuclear attack subs, which is likely to mirror the new vessels

The pact does not make the design of Australia's new submarines clear, but they will be based on previous US and UK designs. Pictured above is a cross-section of Britain's Astute-class nuclear attack subs, which is likely to mirror the new vessels
Scott Morrison and Boris Johnson look chummy at the G7 in Cornwall


The alliance will also be sharing technologies on cyber defence, artificial intelligence, quantum computing, long-rage missiles and 'additional undersea capabilities' such as sensors and drones.

Mr Morrison has said he will spend the next 18 months developing the capacity to safely handle nuclear technology, though has not given a timetable for constructing the subs or when he first one will come online.

He did say that the subs will be built in Adelaide - at least partly - resolving a row that broke out with France about where some of the construction jobs would be located.

The deal could also avoid the politically-difficult issue of Australia having to develop a domestic nuclear industry to support the subs by relying instead on the UK and US - both of whom have such industries.

However, Mr Morrison did not give explicit guarantees on domestic nuclear production - only saying that Australia will not be acquiring nuclear weapons.

France has reacted angrily to the news, which will mean its own deal is now defunct with only $2billion received. Foreign minister Yves Le-Drian called it a 'stab in the back', likening Biden's behaviour to Trump.

Beijing also condemned the news, with foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian denouncing 'Cold War zero-sum thinking' which he said 'seriously undermines regional peace and stability and intensifies the arms race.'

'The export of highly sensitive nuclear submarine technology by the United States and Britain to Australia once again proves that they use nuclear exports as a tool of geopolitical games and adopt double standards, which is extremely irresponsible,' Zhao added.

But Taiwan and Japan reacted joyfully, saying it is necessary to provide 'security' for the South China Sea region.

Taiwan - which considers itself to be an independent nation but is viewed by Beijing as a self-governing Chinese province - fears invasion from the mainland after Xi Jinping committed himself to 'reunifying' the island in a 2019 speech, saying he reserves the right to use force if necessary.

The UK and US have already been conducting increased freedom of navigation patrols through the Strait of Taiwan and around the Spratly and Paracel Islands - which contain Chinese military bases - and the addition of at least eight nuclear submarines to Australia's fleet will bolster these efforts.

The pact also side-lines New Zealand, led by left-wing Jacninda Arden, who was left out after adopting a set of increasingly soft China stances in recent years. She has now vowed to ban the new Australian submarines from its waters under her country's long-standing anti-nuclear policies.

China has inflamed tensions in the South China Sea in recent years by expanding its claimed territory, to the objection of its neighbors in the Asia-Pacific

China has inflamed tensions in the South China Sea in recent years by expanding its claimed territory, to the objection of its neighbors in the Asia-Pacific
Britain and America are to help Australia build a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines as part of an unprecedented alliance known as AUKUS to combat China (pictured, a British Astute-class nuclear sub which is likely to mirror the Australian design)

Britain and America are to help Australia build a fleet of nuclear-powered submarines as part of an unprecedented alliance known as AUKUS to combat China (pictured, a British Astute-class nuclear sub which is likely to mirror the Australian design) Jacinda Ardern will to BAN Australia's new nuclear-powered submarines from New Zealand waters
Australia's new nuclear submarine fleet won't be welcome in New Zealand, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has warned.

The new submarines are the centrepiece of a new security deal - known as AUKUS - agreed to by Australia, the United States and the United Kingdom and announced on Thursday morning.

New Zealand has been left out of the alliance, despite being a member of the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing network, along with AUKUS members and Canada.

The Kiwi leader said the formation of AUKUS 'in no way changes our security and intelligence ties with these three countries'.

'We welcome the increased engagement of the UK and US in the region and reiterate our collective objective needs to be the delivery of peace and stability and the preservation of the international rules based system,' she said.

Ms Ardern was briefed on the alliance by Scott Morrison on Wednesday night.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top