Putin has Defended the Nazi-Soviet Pact

[jouni]

Europe is a different place after the collapse of the USSR.

It is now a monolithic bloc breathing down the Russian border.

And it has the backing of the US and other powerful European nations, in all forms, to include economic and military.

Finland has jumped up on this bandwagon.

So, there is no need any more for Finland to kowtow to Russia.

It can now show its brave face and cock a snook.

This crisis will reveal the biggest mistake of Putin, he has not been able to renew Russian economy. The money from the high oil prices of recent years has not been invested to development and diversifying the economy, instead it has been channeled to military and other non-productive sections of Russian economy. Europe is busy building new LNG terminals and Russia has for decades lost its reputation as reliable partner. Putin has basically created this whole "expansion of NATO threat" to buy time to plunder the country before the collapse, just like in the nineties.

And Finland has been very low key so far. There is a genuine will in Finland to help Russia to become a "normal country", unfortunately Russia crossed a line with Crimea and East Ukraine and now also Finns feels that this is actually the Russias normal face. It is deeply flawed country and will remain so until the end of times.

 

[Ray]

I was not referring to you. You are relatively new to the forum. You were not yet around when outrageous articles about MH370 bodies switching and other ridiculous Russian-sourced articles were being posted here with the posters seriously entertaining them as true.

The jury is out on the issue, as also on the other Malaysian plane that went off the radar.

Everything is ridiculous till the mysteries are solved.

Since I lost family friends in the Malaysian flight to China, I find it stupid and asinine and explanation that the aircraft simply vanished into thin air.

It could not have, given the array of radars, satellites that have proliferated around the globe and outer space.

A huge aircraft just vanishes!

If that is not the most ridiculous thing that can be claimed, then what is?

 

[asianobserve]

The jury is out on the issue, as also on the other Malaysian plane that went off the radar.

Everything is ridiculous till the mysteries are solved.

Since I lost family friends in the Malaysian flight to China, I find it stupid and asinine and explanation that the aircraft simply vanished into thin air.

Have you tried looking for your lost family friends among the bodies recovered from MH17? Maybe you should inform the surviving relatives of your family friends to look for the bodies of their loved ones lost from MH370 from the Dutch...

 

[sgarg]

This crisis will reveal the biggest mistake of Putin, he has not been able to renew Russian economy. The money from the high oil prices of recent years has not been invested to development and diversifying the economy, instead it has been channeled to military and other non-productive sections of Russian economy. Europe is busy building new LNG terminals and Russia has for decades lost its reputation as reliable partner. Putin has basically created this whole "expansion of NATO threat" to buy time to plunder the country before the collapse, just like in the nineties.

And Finland has been very low key so far. There is a genuine will in Finland to help Russia to become a "normal country", unfortunately Russia crossed a line with Crimea and East Ukraine and now also Finns feels that this is actually the Russias normal face. It is deeply flawed country and will remain so until the end of times.

You are VERY OPINIONATED. You live in a society shielded from all sides. You meet very few people. Your country's interests coincide or collide with very few countries.

Your view of Russia is very narrow.

Russia has industries which Russians are good in. Russia CANNOT have all kinds of industries. Russia can never be competitive in consumer electronics for example. It makes no sense to start industries only to see them closed down in few years.

India is unsuccessful in comsumer electronics despite low wages.

Russia has invested money where it saw chances of success. It also wasted a lot of money. A lot of money has simply disappeared from Russia. However Russia has prospered and achieved a semblance of stability through all this. Putin has to take the population along - even those who are not economically productive.

 

[Ray]

This crisis will reveal the biggest mistake of Putin, he has not been able to renew Russian economy. The money from the high oil prices of recent years has not been invested to development and diversifying the economy, instead it has been channeled to military and other non-productive sections of Russian economy. Europe is busy building new LNG terminals and Russia has for decades lost its reputation as reliable partner. Putin has basically created this whole "expansion of NATO threat" to buy time to plunder the country before the collapse, just like in the nineties.

And Finland has been very low key so far. There is a genuine will in Finland to help Russia to become a "normal country", unfortunately Russia crossed a line with Crimea and East Ukraine and now also Finns feels that this is actually the Russias normal face. It is deeply flawed country and will remain so until the end of times.

There is a method in all madness around the world.

Indeed, money should be spent on the well being of the people and not for bolstering the military. But then, name any country that does not have a military and does not spend money on that.

It is good that Europe is building LNG terminals. I hope they have also identified the source for LNG for uninterrupted and endless supply. Greater demand, and the supplying nation with have a windfall to the detriment of the customer nations.

I wonder if Putin is the one who has created the 'NATO expansionist' threat.

I thought NATO originally was confined to 12 members of the Alliance: Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, the United Kingdom and the United States.

Now it is 28 countries.

If that is not expansion, then is it a shrinkage?

Threat to Russia?

If the NATO leans on to Russia and continues to scupper up the remaining few left, would it be taken in Russia to be a sign and handshake of eternal friendship to Russia?

Not that what happens in Europe affects my good sleep at night, but logic indicates that maybe the Russians have a good reason to feel worried and prickly.

I don't understand why apologist for the West find it odd that Russia has good reasons to be worried. The same apologists should remember how they went berserk with fear and went to war when Germany merely acted in 1939 to bring all Germanic people and areas under its wings. Hitler was merely implementing the Pan-Germanism that was highly influential in German politics in the 19th century during the unification of Germany when the German Empire was proclaimed in as a nation-state in 1871 without Austria (Kleindeutsche Lösung/Lesser Germany),and the first half of the 20th century in the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the German Empire. It is worth noting that late 19th century, many Pan-Germanist thinkers, since 1891 organized in the Pan-German League, had adopted openly ethnocentric ideologies, that ultimately gave rise to the foreign policy Heim ins Reich. and there was no Pact in those days to 'save' any nations by those who later coalesced as the Allies.

Russia, I think, can do well without a nation like Finland which is to them possibly a as large as a full stop (period in Amercanism) to 'help Russia become a 'normal country'.

Indeed, what is a normal country?

Where you and I seem to be at divergence is that while you look at issue in Europe from your standpoint i.e. Western interest protection view, I look at it from a bystander view, beyond the rivalry of the West and Russia.

You use emotion and partisanship and I use logic.

To be crystal clear, it does not matter if Russia, Europe and the US vanish into thin air for me. In fact, it would do the world a whole lot good.

 

[sgarg]

@jouni, my wish for Finland is to stay neutral, otherwise Finns will get hurt seriously.

The situation is getting out of control. Your military will not be able to save you if nuclear bombs start flying.

 

[asianobserve]

Russia is on a quest of a fantasy based on a long lost period. It's imperial days are over and is never going back. It can no longer dictate what its neighbors want or that they only associate with it. The sooner it realizes that the better for itself and its neighbors.

 

[jouni]

You all who talk about NATO expansionism, conveniently forget what happened to Baltic States, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and East Germany after Stalin "liberated" them. He killed the officer class and "intelligentsia", changed them from democracies of Monarchs to socialistic buffers states and kept them as a milk cow for Moscow for 45 years.

Can you honestly blame them for wanting security from old democratic European states for it ever happening again? Please name ONE thing that Russia can offer for Ukraine for example that is better than what Europe can offer? Did Brits kill upper class of India? Brits to India were like philanthropists compared to what Russian rule did to East Europe.

And EU is not a blunderer: this year only Poland will get from EU 60 Billion Euros for development! Also my tax Euros go to Poland etc and I could not be happier for that. We have European identity which means something so great that I guess it is pretty hard for Asians to understand.

 

[asianobserve]

You all who talk about NATO expansionism, conveniently forget what happened to Baltic States, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and East Germany after Stalin "liberated" them. He killed the officer class and "intelligentsia", changed them from democracies of Monarchs to socialistic buffers states and kept them as a milk cow for Moscow for 45 years.

Can you honestly blame them for wanting security from old democratic European states for it ever happening again? Please name ONE thing that Russia can offer for Ukraine for example that is better than what Europe can offer? Did Brits kill upper class of India? Brits to India were like philanthropists compared to what Russian rule did to East Europe.

And EU is not a blunderer: this year only Poland will get from EU 60 Billion Euros for development! Also my tax Euros go to Poland etc and I could not be happier for that. We have European identity which means something so great that I guess it is pretty hard for Asians to understand.

Crimean residents I think may know now what you;re saying:

Ten months after Russia invaded this Black Sea peninsula and seized it from Ukraine, the financial fallout is still being felt. Thousands of ordinary citizens have little or no access to their funds. Losses for Ukrainian banks continue to mount as billions of dollars worth of loans they issued in Crimea go unpaid. Lawyers for the banks are preparing legal actions against Russia, which confiscated many of the banks' buildings, equipment and cash.

Meanwhile, Crimea has been thrust into a kind of technological time warp: Most ATMs no longer accept non-Russian bank cards; foreign credit cards can't be used to buy things. Most non-local mobile phones can't receive a signal. And even if they could, calling other Crimeans is complicated: Most of the peninsula's residents recently had to get new mobile phone numbers because Ukrainian services were cut off.

xxx

In Crimea, which has been part of Ukraine for 60 years, Russia has basically blown up the existing banking system, forcing Ukrainian banks to close, banning the Ukrainian currency and replacing the region's retail banking network almost overnight. The resulting economic turmoil has shuttered some businesses and complicated life for thousands, forcing people to deal with a Kafkaesque bureaucracy to try to get their money returned.

Special Report: Crimean savers ask: Where's our money? | Reuters

Or they may be too high on irrational emotion to feel their growing misery under Russia.

 

[sgarg]

You all who talk about NATO expansionism, conveniently forget what happened to Baltic States, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and East Germany after Stalin "liberated" them. He killed the officer class and "intelligentsia", changed them from democracies of Monarchs to socialistic buffers states and kept them as a milk cow for Moscow for 45 years.

Brits killed plenty of upper caste in India directly, and through engineered famine and through engineered riots.

Stalin may have been worse than Brits, and there may be a genuine bad feeling in countries that suffered through Stalin years.

We are not blaming anybody.

All I am saying is those times are past. This is time to look ahead. Globalization and EU/NATO are incompatible. Sure build an army through UN and give that army the task of suppressing violence.

 

[sgarg]

Crimean residents I think may know now what you;re saying:
Or they may be too high on irrational emotion to feel their growing misery under Russia.

The article you linked also says that savers have been compensated. Some amounts may be hanging due to lack of records.
It was obvious that the Ukraine banking system cannot operate in Crimea under the circumstances. Look at what happened in Iraq after the US invasion. US sent planeloads of US dollars to Iraq.

 

[asianobserve]

The article you linked also says that savers have been compensated. Some amounts may be hanging due to lack of records.
It was obvious that the Ukraine banking system cannot operate in Crimea under the circumstances. Look at what happened in Iraq after the US invasion. US sent planeloads of US dollars to Iraq.

You did not read the article well. The Russian compensation offer was sourced from Russian insurance deposit fund. There is a fixed maximum amount that can be paid to depositors from insurance deposits.

 

[sgarg]

You did not read the article well. The Russian compensation offer was sourced from Russian insurance deposit fund. There is a fixed maximum amount that can be paid to depositors from insurance deposits.

This is standard practice. Deposit insurance always has limits.
The depositor can still get money from the Ukrainian bank. Russia is not stopping that.

I suggest you look at Iraq for similar circumstances. You study that and then comment.

 

[asianobserve]

This is standard practice. Deposit insurance always has limits.
The depositor can still get money from the Ukrainian bank. Russia is not stopping that.

I suggest you look at Iraq for similar circumstances. You study that and then comment.

But as the article reports, Ukrainian banks are having a hard time since Crimean borrowers are not paying them (thanks to Putin's cynical advice) and that the Russian authorities confiscated their records and assets in Crimean branches.

 

[sgarg]

But as the article reports, Ukrainian banks are having a hard time since Crimean borrowers are not paying them (thanks to Putin's cynical advice) and that the Russian authorities confiscated their records and assets in Crimean branches.

Ukrainians banks don't have to take Putin's advice. They can still pay the depositors.

The dispute between Ukraine and Russia does not have to involve depositors.

When you involve depositors, you lose any goodwill with those people.

 

[ramakrishna]

Ukrainians banks don't have to take Putin's advice. They can still pay the depositors.

The dispute between Ukraine and Russia does not have to involve depositors.

When you involve depositors, you lose any goodwill with those people.

Not the ukrainian banks ,... its the Crimean borrowers took the advice from Putin and paying the Ukrainian banks ....

 

[sgarg]

Not the ukrainian banks ,... its the Crimean borrowers took the advice from Putin and paying the Ukrainian banks ....

I meant Ukrainian banks must pay their liabilities despite their dispute with Russia. What Putin says is not an issue to be settled with the depositors.

 

[Razor]

Was not Lenin a Russian? I mean I do know about Stalin,etc but I thought Lenin was born in Russia??

Yeah, he was born in Russia. But to understand why I made that post you quoted, kindly go through below (originally posted post #41 here )

Yes. I'm not even sure if you can label them as jews. But it is true as you said: "A majority of this gang" seem to have some jewish elements.

Also I do not believe jews faced any extraordinary discrimination in Europe and Russia until the mid to late 1930s.

That was some interesting information.
In return: I recently compiled some info on Lenin from various sources, which I have tried my best to verify for authenticity. Interesting stuff.

Lenin's real name: Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov.
Chose the name Lenin during his exile in Siberia, probably referring to the Lena river.

List of ancestors/relatives:

Lenin's wife Nadezhda Konstantinovna "Nadya" Krupskaya. (from wiki)
Nadya's father, Konstantin Ignat'evich Krupski was educated and given a commission as an infantry officer in the Russian Army. Just before leaving for his assignment in Poland he married Nadya's Jewish mother. After six years of service, Krupski lost favor with his supervisors and was charged with "un-Russian activities." He may have been suspected of being involved with revolutionaries.

Lenin's elder brother Alexander Ilyich Ulyanov, was arrested in March 1887 for participating in a bombing plot against the throne (by attempting to assassinate tzar Alexander III), and hanged in May.
Later Lenin would accomplish the task during the October revolution by ordering the Red army to execute the Romanov's.

F= Ilya Nikolayevich Ulyanov (was awarded the Order of St. Vladimir and therefore a heriditary nobleman.)
M= Maria Alexandrovna Blank (daugther of Alexander Dmitrievich Blank whose real name is Srul Blanc)

FF=Nikolay Vasilyevich Ulyanov <- Ulyanin (was from Astrakhan; was a tailor earned money and married late in life, a bride 20 years junior; original last name Ulyanin modified to Ulyanov.) (possibly Half Chuvash- Half Russian; Chuvash is a Turko-Mongol group)
FM=Anna Alexeyevna Smirnova (was a baptized Kalmyk= a Turkic-Mogol ethnic group)

FFF=Vasily Nikitich Ulyanin (was a serf; some sources say had Chuvash (Turkic) ethnicity= unverified)
FFM=Anna Semyonovna NN
FMF=Aleksey Lukyanovich Smirnov
FMM=Alexandra Ulyanova NN

MF=Srul Moishevich Blank (was a Ukrainian jew from Zhitomir, Ukraine. Srul is the Yiddish form of the name "Israel". Later he changed his name to Alexander Dmitrievich Blank and is said to have converted to Orthodoxy; note Blanc family)
MM=Anna Ivanovna Grosschopff (was of German (father)- Swedish(mother) descent)

MFF= Moshko Itskovich Blank
MFM=Mariam Froimovich
MMF=Johann Gottlieb Grosschopff
MMM= Anna Beata Östedt

Note: FF= Father's father and so on.

During the beginning of the Bolshevik revolution there was a popular idea among the masses that the Bolshevik revolution was jewish in nature.
This isn't surprising because many prominent Bolsheviks were jews.
Examples: Grigory Zinoviev, Moisei Uritsky, Lev Kamenev, Yakov Sverdlov, Grigory Sokolnikov, Leon Trotsky; and also because even at the infancy of the revolution, there were rumors that Lenin had personally ordered the execution of the entire family of the Tsar (which was seen as a symbol of orthodoxy.)

If the masses knew Lenin, the designer of the revolution was also jewish, it would cause major problems.
The Bolsheviks and Lenin denied Lenin's jewish ancestry and also that he had ordered the execution.
If these facts were let out in the open, it would have caused major problems, as the people, who were mostly Orthodox would see it as a jewish overtake of an orthodox people.

But much later it was revealed that not only was Lenin part Jewish but he also admired the Jews.
1. Quote by lenin
"An intelligent Russian," he once remarked, "is almost always a Jew or someone with Jewish blood in his veins." Richard Pipes, The Russian Revolution (New York: Knopf, 1990), p. 352.
2. Letter from Lenin's sister to Stalin.
In a letter to Stalin in 1932 Lenin's older sister, Anna Ulyanova, wrote that their maternal grandfather "came from a poor Jewish family and was, according to his baptismal certificate, the son of Moses Blank." Ulyanova said her brother "had always thought highly of Jews." (link)
In this letter Anna is urging Stalin to let the people know about Lenin's jewsih ancestry. Stalin who was busy purging jews from the Higher ranks of the Politburo and elsewhere replied, "Not one word about it."

I guess there was a general notion in those days and before that jews sticked with each other and worked in gangs.
For example: Here an officer of the London Police says that the witness was jewish and refused to testify against a fellow jew. This pertains to the investigations of the "Jack the Ripper' murders. link

Aaron Kosminski (born Aron Mordke Kozminski; 11 September 1865 – 24 March 1919) was a Polish Jew who was admitted to Colney Hatch Lunatic Asylum in 1891.[19] "Kosminski" (without a forename) was named as a suspect by Sir Melville Macnaghten in his 1894 memorandum[20] and by former Chief Inspector Donald Swanson in handwritten comments in the margin of his copy of Assistant Commissioner Sir Robert Anderson's memoirs.[21] Anderson wrote that a Polish Jew had been identified as the Ripper but that no prosecution was possible because the witness was also Jewish and refused to testify against a fellow Jew.

From the emboldened part in the quote: Lenin is (1/8) th Russian and at best (1/4) th Russian, (1/4) th Ukrainian jew, (1/4) th Kalmyk, and (1/4) th Germanic (German+Swedish).
From the Italicized part it is clear Lenin viewed Russian culture with contempt, and I'd assume used that "russian" card only when it suited him, like say to gain popularity.
So I find it hard to swallow that he considered himself "russian", in spite what mainstream media wants to propel.

He probably gave more importance to his Jewish lineage than to his Russian lineage.

I consider him to be a Russian, but he might not have considered himself so.

Okay.

 

[pmaitra]

@Razor,

The official biography of Lenin was obviously the "official" biography, and most likely to make him more acceptable to the Russians, his non-Russian heritage was suppressed.

Coming to Chuvash and Kalmyk ancestry, although not Slavic, I consider them Russian. Russian does not necessarily have to be Slavic. Russians are predominantly Slavic, not exclusively Slavic.

 

[Razor]

@Razor,

The official biography of Lenin was obviously the "official" biography, and most likely to make him more acceptable to the Russians, his non-Russian heritage was suppressed.

Yes, of course. That is understandable.
It wouldn't seem nice if the leader of the revolution was only (1/8) th Russian.

Coming to Chuvash and Kalmyk ancestry, although not Slavic, I consider them Russian.

Well, yes. They are Russified Turko-Mongols. But to an extent they do maintain their traditions.

Russian does not necessarily have to be Slavic. Russians are predominantly Slavic, not exclusively Slavic.

There is a difference between Ruskie (rrooskee) as in ethnic Russian and Rossiyane, as in a demonym for inhabitants of Russian federation. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you refer to the latter.