Propaganda and Brainwashing of Sikhs

yuba

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I don't know much about Khalistan issue but I guess whenever I see things written on buses like 1984 - never forget, they sound provocative to Hindus. We share almost same heritage don't know where this bitterness comes from.
Try being a sikh in delhi in 1984 watching your wife get raped and your child killed im sure that hurt more then your feelings and maybe thats where the bitterness comes from. You have to get justice for a healing process to start not a few here and there. While congress thugs like tytler has a perma grin on his face .
 

cereal killer

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Try being a sikh in delhi in 1984 watching your wife get raped and your child killed im sure that hurt more then your feelings and maybe thats where the bitterness comes from
Since I said I don't know much about this issue & whatever happened was wrong. I have many Sikh friends as well & I being a dogra we get along pretty well. Uneccesary Blood was spilled on both sides & I think hatred has no place in both religions.
 

yuba

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Brother, I don't hate Hindus and I believe in the union of India with all its diversity. I think the comment don't know where the bitterness comes from I thought you were taking the piss i apologise
 

Pash

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What has happened in 1984 was utterly bad. Afterwards what happened in Punjab with Hindus was also not good. @yuba, I do not know your experience but I had seen with my eyes people leaving there homes, selling their ancestral things dirt-cheap. Those had somethings they moved to other states or countries, poor ones had bad life, same what has happened in Kashmir. People used to come to their home in evenings and nights and I do not think I have explain what they were doing or had done. Why the big names of that time whoso ever they were have not done anything in this matter. In end by the time of Beant Singh and KPS Gill, everyone was corrupt. Nevertheless, do we had learned anything—Answer is big fat No. For view from other side please read book, “Knights of Falsehood”.
I found it is quite interesting in most of people irrespective of their caste and religion, who is dominating they always find point to abuse minority. Ask your Brahmin friend do he was abused in his childhood about his caste? Why people remember only 1 bad name and not 100 of other good?
About your Jat Muslim people, they are Punjabi yes, what have you ever thought-how and why they become Muslim? Clue! How Christian’s are spreading in Punjab now? I do not think there is caste system in Muslims. Still if they carry caste and surname with them it means there is something in there conversation.
What these Muslim Jats had done with Sikh and Hindu Punjab's in 1947? Converted ones are more dangerous.
I strongly believe that Indian PM should go to Amritsar and tell everyone 1984 was mistake and we all have to take responsibility whatever has happened, happening and will happen.
Drugs are big problem but we have to think how and why they are coming?
 

yuba

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What has happened in 1984 was utterly bad. Afterwards what happened in Punjab with Hindus was also not good. @yuba, I do not know your experience but I had seen with my eyes people leaving there homes, selling their ancestral things dirt-cheap. Those had somethings they moved to other states or countries, poor ones had bad life, same what has happened in Kashmir. People used to come to their home in evenings and nights and I do not think I have explain what they were doing or had done. Why the big names of that time whoso ever they were have not done anything in this matter. In end by the time of Beant Singh and KPS Gill, everyone was corrupt. Nevertheless, do we had learned anything—Answer is big fat No. For view from other side please read book, “Knights of Falsehood”.
I found it is quite interesting in most of people irrespective of their caste and religion, who is dominating they always find point to abuse minority. Ask your Brahmin friend do he was abused in his childhood about his caste? Why people remember only 1 bad name and not 100 of other good?
About your Jat Muslim people, they are Punjabi yes, what have you ever thought-how and why they become Muslim? Clue! How Christian’s are spreading in Punjab now? I do not think there is caste system in Muslims. Still if they carry caste and surname with them it means there is something in there conversation.
What these Muslim Jats had done with Sikh and Hindu Punjab's in 1947? Converted ones are more dangerous.
I strongly believe that Indian PM should go to Amritsar and tell everyone 1984 was mistake and we all have to take responsibility whatever has happened, happening and will happen.
Drugs are big problem but we have to think how and why they are coming?
Thanks, brother I will look for that book on amazon. I am under no illusion that the militants did bad things to non-Sikhs they did bad things to Sikhs who not agree with their point of view. Like I said earlier fight the militants but why did the congress centre spread such terror among us loyal Sikhs. And yes a lot of Hindus did sell their belongings to leave the state all innocents lived in terror then. Two wrongs never make a right but the number of innocent men tortured to a point of near-death or death was staggering. On an accusation you and your male household members where tortured not a few slaps but brutal methods where used. You are right again that in the end, everyone was corrupt the militants started extorting Sikhs Hindus . I mentioned earlier the militancy was ended because of the militants becoming gangsters and the brutal crackdown people turned their backs on it. Do you know as a child what terror it was when the security forces where conducting anti-terror sweeps in your village or area. The way people had no value to watching people taken away no rights at all I would never wish that on any Indian. And yes my brahmin friend has probably faced the stereotypes that are there of them in some Sikhs of them be clever but can't fight worth shit but its the same as all of us Sikhs being big drinking bhangra dancing not to smart tough guys. I can only not stereotype people myself and teach my kids not too. Of course, I know what Punjabi Muslims did to my people in the partition but Sikh and Hindus did the same as well . In fact, one of my relatives did kill a lot of Muslims he was proud of it women and men he died wearing diapers not knowing his family and my dad would tell us God delivers justice in the end. Concerning my Punjabi Muslim friends I have a lot of love for them we grew up in not a big asian area in Uk . You had to stick together or get picked on. I know we, not a big vote bank anymore but if Modi would apologize and get us justice not token justice proper. It would go a big way he doesn't even have to go to Punjab do it anywhere. I cant understand why that so hard especially as it would expose the congress party for state sponsored massacre. The drug problem in the state due to Pakistan to weaken the youth helped by corrupt politicians. Not just the centre responsible what has captain or the fat badals done nothing. Having pakistani friends in the west does not make me pro Pakistani or anti india and a lot of sikhs hate muslims call them coward converts cousin lovers but i can not speak bad of my pals no matter what background that have shown me nothing but loyalty in the UK . Like i said you cant live in past and no state is innocent even in the west but is it so much trouble to get a sorry for the events of 84 when it was state sponsered terror inflicted or a minority .
 

Pash

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Thanks for understanding. I had spent my childhood and young days in Punjab. I understand how it feels when your whole village is cordon and you are the target. It is humiliating and shameful. As you had mentioned two wrongs does not make one right.

We need to do things in right direction as I had written earlier, first could be sorry for 1984, Delhi riots etc. Not just, lip sinking but real sorry. Second will be how to make Punjab back to stand what it was or we have in our dreams not just in songs and folk lore etc.

About Muslim Punjabi’s, change of religion does not change reality and I had many friends from Pakistan Punjab, but we have to careful. In end, I hope black days are over and we will be able to see better Punjab soon. I am not supporter of any special or specific stuff but we all have to work in direction and with positive energy. Please ask your near ones to believe on themselves, avoid drugs and dreaming about CANADA. Better, go for study and be something. Dr. Hargobind Khurana who has won Nobel Prize was Punjab, make him your role model and do good around you. Believe what our Gurus has said, written and what is Bani. Take refuge in Bani, not in drugs and false hope.
 

yuba

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Thanks for understanding. I had spent my childhood and young days in Punjab. I understand how it feels when your whole village is cordon and you are the target. It is humiliating and shameful. As you had mentioned two wrongs does not make one right.

We need to do things in right direction as I had written earlier, first could be sorry for 1984, Delhi riots etc. Not just, lip sinking but real sorry. Second will be how to make Punjab back to stand what it was or we have in our dreams not just in songs and folk lore etc.

About Muslim Punjabi’s, change of religion does not change reality and I had many friends from Pakistan Punjab, but we have to careful. In end, I hope black days are over and we will be able to see better Punjab soon. I am not supporter of any special or specific stuff but we all have to work in direction and with positive energy. Please ask your near ones to believe on themselves, avoid drugs and dreaming about CANADA. Better, go for study and be something. Dr. Hargobind Khurana who has won Nobel Prize was Punjab, make him your role model and do good around you. Believe what our Gurus has said, written and what is Bani. Take refuge in Bani, not in drugs and false hope.
Bani, in the end, was what saved me from my own drug use of nearly 28 years but the difference was I was a functioning addict. And I did not use smack but methamphetamine which was mentally addictive but no physical addiction so I could take breaks of months or years.I wonder what Punjab I will come back to when I move back I had moved my family back for 8 years to absorb the culture and my kids have benefited from it. Part of the problem is fathers are absent abroad so kids have no fear money in the pocket and a state and centre that ignored while the fire burnt and mothers that would hide kids use because of looking bad in the community . The youth need jobs Punjabis spend their time either selling land or getting in debt to get sons out or to educate them only to find the jobs not there in end. Many times I've tried to get a fund started to set up a drug rehab clinic a proper one not ones that just rob desperate parents or at the very least provide a proper free needle exchange program. What is a drug addict's parent's first point of call if found kids are using. Its to get him married why should a poor girl get Aids because of her partner's use.
 

Pash

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@yuba

ਕੁਝ ਕਿਹਾ ਤਾਂ ਹਨੇਰਾ ਜਰੇਗਾ ਕਿਵੇਂ

ਜੋ ਵਿਦੇਸ਼ਾਂ 'ਚ ਰੁਲਦੇ ਨੇ ਰੋਜ਼ੀ ਲਈ
ਉਹ ਜਦੋਂ ਦੇਸ਼ ਪਰਤਣਗੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਕਦੀ
ਕੁਝ ਤਾਂ ਸੇਕਣਗੇ ਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਿਵੇ ਦੀ ਅਗਨ
ਬਾਕੀ ਕਬਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਰੁੱਖ ਹੇਠ ਜਾ ਬਹਿਣਗੇ ।

(ਡਾ. ਸੁਰਜੀਤ ਪਾਤਰ)

----

ਕੁਝ ਕਿਹਾ ਤਾਂ ਹਨੇਰਾ ਜਰੇਗਾ ਕਿਵੇਂ

ਕੁਝ ਕਿਹਾ ਤਾਂ ਹਨੇਰਾ ਜਰੇਗਾ ਕਿਵੇਂ
ਚੁੱਪ ਰਿਹਾ ਤਾਂ ਸ਼ਮਾਦਾਨ ਕੀ ਕਹਿਣਗੇ ।
ਗੀਤ ਦੀ ਮੌਤ ਇਸ ਰਾਤ ਜੇ ਹੋ ਗਈ
ਮੇਰਾ ਜੀਣਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਯਾਰ ਕਿੰਞ ਸਹਿਣਗੇ ।

ਇਸ ਅਦਾਲਤ 'ਚ ਬੰਦੇ ਬਿਰਖ ਹੋ ਗਏ
ਫੈਸਲੇ ਸੁਣਦਿਆਂ ਸੁਣਦਿਆਂ ਸੁਕ ਗਏ ।
ਆਖੋ ਏਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਉੱਜੜੇ ਘਰੀਂ ਜਾਣ ਹੁਣ
ਇਹ ਕਦੋਂ ਤੀਕ ਇਥੇ ਖੜ੍ਹੇ ਰਹਿਣਗੇ ।

ਯਾਰ ਮੇਰੇ ਜੁ ਇਸ ਆਸ 'ਤੇ ਮਰ ਗਏ
ਕਿ ਮੈਂ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਦੁੱਖ ਦਾ ਬਣਾਵਾਂਗਾ ਗੀਤ
ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਚੁੱਪ ਹੀ ਰਿਹਾ ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਕੁਝ ਨਾ ਕਿਹਾ
ਬਣਕੇ ਰੂਹਾਂ ਸਦਾ ਭਟਕਦੇ ਰਹਿਣਗੇ ।

ਜੋ ਵਿਦੇਸ਼ਾਂ 'ਚ ਰੁਲਦੇ ਨੇ ਰੋਜ਼ੀ ਲਈ
ਉਹ ਜਦੋਂ ਦੇਸ਼ ਪਰਤਣਗੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਕਦੀ
ਕੁਝ ਤਾਂ ਸੇਕਣਗੇ ਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਸਿਵੇ ਦੀ ਅਗਨ
ਬਾਕੀ ਕਬਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਰੁੱਖ ਹੇਠ ਜਾ ਬਹਿਣਗੇ ।

ਕੀ ਇਹ ਇਨਸਾਫ਼ ਹਉਮੈਂ ਦੇ ਪੁੱਤ ਕਰਨਗੇ
ਕੀ ਇਹ ਖ਼ਾਮੋਸ਼ ਪੱਥਰ ਦੇ ਬੁੱਤ ਕਰਨਗੇ ।
ਜੋ ਸਲੀਬਾਂ ਤੇ ਟੰਗੇ ਨੇ ਲੱਥਣੇ ਨਹੀਂ
ਰਾਜ ਬਦਲਣਗੇ ਸੂਰਜ ਚੜ੍ਹਨ ਲਹਿਣਗੇ ।

ਇਹ ਜੁ ਰੰਗਾਂ 'ਚ ਚਿੱਤਰੇ ਨੇ ਖੁਰ ਜਾਣਗੇ
ਇਹ ਜੁ ਮਰਮਰ 'ਚ ਉੱਕਰੇ ਨੇ ਮਿਟ ਜਾਣਗੇ ।
ਬਲਦੇ ਹਥਾਂ ਨੇ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਹਵਾ ਵਿਚ ਲਿਖੇ
ਹਰਫ਼ ਉਹੀ ਹਮੇਸ਼ਾ ਲਿਖੇ ਜਾਣਗੇ ।

ਇਹ ਵੀ ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਮੇਰਾ ਆਪਣਾ ਵਹਿਮ ਹੈ
ਕੋਈ ਦੀਵਾ ਜਗੇਗਾ ਮੇਰੀ ਕਬਰ 'ਤੇ
ਜੇ ਹਵਾ ਇਹ ਰਹੀ ਕਬਰਾਂ ਉੱਤੇ ਤਾਂ ਕੀ
ਸਭ ਘਰਾਂ 'ਚ ਵੀ ਦੀਵੇ ਬੁਝੇ ਰਹਿਣਗੇ ।

(ਡਾ. ਸੁਰਜੀਤ ਪਾਤਰ)
 

yuba

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Brother the first verse has got me crying my mum passed away in punjab april 17th in punjab my parents had retired back there there i had no way of getting back . Im not the only one it happens to but i would give all the money i have to put my head on her lap while she talked to me
 

Pash

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I understand. I hope God will give you strength. Be brave we all are with you.
 

yuba

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I understand. I hope God will give you strength. Be brave we all are with you.
Thank you my brother for your kind words . For all the younger members out there who are lucky enough to have their mums . Show your mothers love make their lives happy because no one will love you like a mum a mothers love is special when she goes its like a pain in heart you know you will carry until your last breathe
 

utubekhiladi

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the bad guys keep fanning the hatred because good guys are not spreading love. India will be at peace once the porkistan is destroyed completely. I m not against Muslims. i have many true Muslim friends since childhood. i am against the country called Pakistan as a whole.
 

yuba

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Absolutely, as time goes by and I do more research on it, and interact with more Sikhs - I realize that there's a lot that wasn't told to the rest of us in other parts of India (or my Grandfather and Father's generation - in this case, I wasn't alive then).

Things did eventually get ugly in Punjab - but the whole journey of how things reached the precipice, what dirty political games were played to take it there, that got covered up. We can blame Pakistan for fishing in troubled waters, but that crisis didn't just occur out of thin air.

To make things worse, Indira/Congress were authoritarian and completely controlled News/Flow of Information, and there was neither internet, nor cell phones w/ cameras, nor social media back then for the truth to leak out and go viral.

So there's a lot which many people don't know. Insurgency was very tough to fight, and States do bend the rules when fighting them, but it's a fact that with all of the torture for information, or encounters/disappearances - clearly there were innocent people in there too, who weren't fighters or even Overground Workers. There have been some cases which came to light much later, of fake encounters of completely random people for medals and promotions (ie Pilbhit case), or of cases where police officers would encounter one party in a land/kabja dispute at the behest/bribery of the other party and just call them "militants."

Going to the time of Op. Blue Star. As KPS Gill showed in Black Thunder - they could've formed a tight perimeter w/ snipers, cut the water/electricity, and waited out the militants. They could've kept prominent Sikhs/Punjabis and some national + international media present to ensure accurate reporting/info instead of rumors. For that matter, why was the attack launched around the time when so many pilgrims would visit Harmandir Sahib for one of the Guru's (I think Guru Arjan Dev's) martyrdom anniversary? Why were religious literatures confiscated from the library (never returned to date) and why was the library burned afterward? These are things that there is still no clarity on.

These are all things that I believe we should simply have an open/transparent discussion on. If I ran the Gvt; along with re-litigating major '84 Pogroms Cases, I would also institute a Truth and Reconciliation Committee on that time period and all the things that happened. That's the only way we will conclusively heal these wounds.
I must have missed this post but brother you speak what most Sikhs feel thank you
 

Lancer

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General note; but this thread needs to be handled and modded with extra care. Or it will spin out of control very easily - even more so if the handful of Sikh members we have here who want to start a bigger discussion on this issue instantly get shouted down as "Muhhh Khalistanis" because they deviate from 80s Congressi Propaganda.
 

Assassin 2.0

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Nobody wants Khalistan: Punjab CM Amarinder Singh
Asserting that nobody wants a separate state for Sikhs, Punjab Chief Minister Amarinder Singh on Monday dismissed a recent statement of Akal Takht Jathedar that the Sikh community will accept Khalistan if the government offers it.
Press Trust Of India
Updated On: June 29, 2020 23:18 IST

image
Asserting that nobody wants a separate state for Sikhs, Punjab Chief Minister Amarinder Singh on Monday dismissed a recent statement of Akal Takht Jathedar that the Sikh community will accept Khalistan if the government offers it.


'Sikhs living in the country are leading prosperous lives. Why would they want a Khalistan' Nobody wants it and I do not want it,' said Singh while replying to a question on Khalistan during a press conference here.

Singh said every Sikh always stood for the unity and integrity of the country.

'Do you know how many Sikh soldiers we have' They sacrifice their lives for the country. We fight for our country and this is our country,' said Singh.

On June 6, Akal Takht Jathedar Giani Harpreet Singh had said, 'The Sikh community will accept Khalistan, a separate state for Sikhs, if the government offers it.'


The Jathedar (head priest) of Akal Takht (the highest temporal seat of Sikhs) had raked up the Khalistan issue on the 36th anniversary of Operation Bluestar, which was carried out in 1984 to flush out heavily-armed terrorists holed up in the Golden Temple.

Even the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee president Gobind Singh Longowal had also endorsed the Akal Takht jathedar's views on Khalistan.


(Photo Credit: PTI)

Published: June 29, 2020 23:18 IST
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yuba

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General note; but this thread needs to be handled and modded with extra care. Or it will spin out of control very easily - even more so if the handful of Sikh members we have here who want to start a bigger discussion on this issue instantly get shouted down as "Muhhh Khalistanis" because they deviate from 80s Congressi Propaganda.
I'm sorry, I lost it there a bit. But my brother did you see even by questioning the congress goons I became a khalistani.
 

yuba

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It is just frustrating us Sikhs and other minority groups having to prove our patriotism. That kid that was here from Delhi we are not sitting on his father's land this is our land. Sikhs and other minorities have shown their feelings for India time and again. I find that the younger generation that are more against anyone thats not Hindu what has happened. I just got called a khalistani by someone that does not know my views my background anything. He came here with an agenda the least he could have done is gone through the thread. I'm being serious now is this the majority view of Hindus towards Sikhs outside of Punjab. Because if that is the case we a future Pakistan where minorities are treated with suspicion. That will turn the most patriotic minorities against the union . Two boys from punjab and 18 from bihar lost their lives for their country that is the beauty of the union . On the other hand you have some kid who called me a khalistani for dare saying congess goons killed innocents. Not hindus but congress supporting hindus because two sikhs killed a women who apart from 71 rulled like a dictator . You sikhs killed our mother indira we go on a rape and killing spree against the innocent. He showed his true colours when he said the RSS saved khalistanis to him all sikhs are khalistanis. No the RSS and other hindus saved innocent sikhs
 

Pash

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I'm sorry, I lost it there a bit. But my brother did you see even by questioning the congress goons I became a khalistani.
No my dear brother. Search for truth is pious one and we all are looking for it. What he meant to say that, we have be careful not to hurt anyone's feelings and sentiments.
 

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