Project-75I class SSK Submarines

[nrj]

By seeing the RFP it seems that IN does not want SSk to have VLS launchers. It can be safely assumed now that this task will remain with nuclear subs only.

Is it possible to launch BrahMos with torpedo tubes (650 mm tubes)? Will option be there to integrate nirbhay at alter stages?

Yeah, VLS requirement is still not clear.

I think Brahmos's current dimension can not allow it to be fired from Torpedo tubes.

Brahmos availability in new SSKs in whatever form & VLS fitting is likely to become hot issue for IN in coming days it seems. Here is something very interesting on it -

BrahMos Aerospace, like other potential missile vendors, is lobbying hard for having BrahMos pre-selected for the follow-on six SSKs that the Indian Navy wants to procure. And it is here that unwanted and ill-informed controversies are being fanned.

To obtain clarity on this issue one has to find out what exactly will be the operational tasks of the follow-on six SSKs. Apart from waging submarine warfare, these six SSKs will also be required to undertake anti-ship missile strikes with cruise missiles that should be able to be launched from the SSK's torpedo tubes, AND NOT from vertical launch cells that, if installed, will unnecessarily increase the SSK's displacement with no clear operational advantages emerging.

Another reason why vertical launch cells for the BrahMos are not preferred by the Indian Navy for the to-be-ordered six SSKs is because the RFI very clearly states that these SSKs will be required to be armed with vertically-launched missiles designed to destroy hovering ASW helicopters or low-flying MR/ASW aircraft (such a system is already under development between the DRDO and RAFAEL since 2004 and its first installation will be on the ATV). Therefore, the Navy has rightfully determined that the anti-ship/land-attack cruise missiles should be launched from the torpedo tubes, and not from vertical launch cells.

Source

 

[nrj]

India to Select Foreign / Private Shipyard Collaborator for Project 75I

Alright it seems project has gained momentum -

Indian Navy has begun its exercise to identify a contemporary conventional submarine under its Project 75 (I) program. The information sheet called for construction of two submarines at collaborators shipyard and four submarines at two Indian shipyards.

Indian Navy has requested information from firms who have independently designed and constructed a complete modern conventional submarine which is currently in service or undergoing sea trials. The submarine should be capable of operating in open ocean and littoral and shallow waters in dense ASW and EW environment and able to undertake missions for anti surface and anti submarine warfare; supporting operations ashore; ISR Missions; and special force and mining ops.

Some of the key requirements include torpedo tubes with capability to launch long range heavy weight wire guided torpedoes, missiles and method for weapon discharge; externally launched torpedo decoy system; integrated combat system; contemporary low noise propulsion and power generation system; and AC system customized for operation in tropical waters characterised by high temperature and high humidity conditions.

Information is also being asked for radiated noise levels in frequency band 30 hz to 10000hz (db // ref μpa) at speed of 5 knots and 10 kn (b) noise and vibration data for major propulsion and auxiliary machinery and also maneuverability & stability characteristics

Manufacturer has to to submit the information with scope and depth for transfer of technology (ToT) for submarine design & construction and production of key systems and subsystems at Indian shipyard by Indian industry. The participating supplier has to adhere to offset commitments regarding "Defense procurement procedure – 2008"³ as well as the plan for training Indian navy personnel on all aspects of the submarine. The last date of the submission is 30th September 2010.

Indian Navy calls for information for 06 conventional submarines under Project 75(I)

 

[Rama]

Indian should go for Russian Submarines like Severodvinsk-class submarine.Think for the future and not the immediate or near present.

 

[sandeepdg]

50,000cr deal for 6 subs: Govt invites bids from firms

NEW DELHI: The ball has formally been set rolling for what will be India's biggest-ever defence project till now: the acquisition of six new-generation stealth submarines, with land-attack capabilities, for over Rs 50,000 crore.

The government has now issued a global request for information (RFI) to armament majors to submit their initial offers by the end of this month for the six submarines to be constructed under 'Project-75 India'. This comes after the Defence Acquisitions Council (DAC), chaired by defence minister A K Antony, cleared P-75I in June, as was first reported by TOI. The gigantic naval project will clearly overtake the Rs 42,000 crore project to procure 126 multi-role fighters for IAF, so far dubbed the "mother of all defence deals", which is in the final selection phase now.

Under P-75I, while two submarines will be imported from the foreign collaborator's shipyard, the other four will be built indigenously under transfer of technology. Three of these will be constructed at Mazagon Docks (MDL) in Mumbai, and the fourth at Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Visakhapatnam.

MDL is already engaged in building six French Scorpene submarines under Project-75, currently valued at Rs 23,562 crore, which incidentally is running three years behind the 2012-2017 schedule set for it earlier. "Giving one submarine to HSL under P-75I is clearly aimed at establishing a robust second submarine line there, in addition to MDL, for future projects like P-76," said a senior official.

Interestingly, the RFI says the foreign collaborator has to specify the air-independent propulsion (AIP) being offered for the project. Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to surface every few days to get oxygen to recharge their batteries. But with AIP systems, they can stay submerged for much longer periods, narrowing the gap with nuclear-powered submarines which can operate underwater for virtually unlimited periods.

50,000cr deal for 6 subs: Govt invites bids from firms - The Times of India

 

[sandeepdg]

Indian should go for Russian Submarines like Severodvinsk-class submarine.Think for the future and not the immediate or near present.

The Yasen class subs are nuclear attacks submarines. We are buying conventional subs for now. Maybe in the future.

 

[Agantrope]

Alright it seems project has gained momentum -




Indian Navy calls for information for 06 conventional submarines under Project 75(I)

Finally some proactive approach, thank god they awake.... :emot112:

 

[nrj]

Finally some proactive approach, thank god they awake.... :emot112:

Yeah 2 of these new subs to be constructed at collaborator's shipyard & rest 4 at two different Indian shipyards. Last date for submission is 30th September.

All to be equipped with AIP. This makes total number of 8 Next-Gen AIP subs serving IN. S-80 & Amur will be good competitors. Although Russians will have to assure on AIP's functionality.

 

[Patriot]

India Releases $11B RFI For Submarines

Sep 8, 2010

By Neelam Mathews [email protected]
NEW DELHI

The Indian navy has issued a request for information (RFI) for procurement of six conventional submarines under its Project 75 (1). The estimated value of the contract is $11 billion.

Submissions are due by Sept 30. Companies expected to respond include Rosoboronexport (Amur shipyard), France's DCNS, Germany's HDW and Spain's Navantia.

The Indian navy says it is in the process of identifying a contemporary conventional submarine with two diesel-electric engines to be built at the vendor's shipyard and four more at Indian shipyards. The RFI states it will look at companies that have independently designed and constructed modern subs currently in service or undergoing sea trials. "The submarine should be capable of operating in open and littoral/shallow waters in dense antisurface and antisubmarine warfare and [electronic warfare] environments."

The Scorpene—six of which India has ordered and are under construction—is 1,700 tons and carries 18 torpedoes and/or missiles. The submarines India is looking at will be 7,000-8,000 tons, says a navy official.

"The Western world doesn't have this [size] of conventional boat and it is likely the Russians will qualify," says an aerospace and defense analyst. "However, having suffered in the past, India is wary of doing business with the Russians," he adds.

India's fleet includes 10 Russian Kilo-class, four German HDW and two aging Foxtrot diesel-engine submarines. It does not have any submarine design experience for a 7,000-ton boat. By 2012, five of India's 16 submarines will be retired.

The RFI asks for the scope and depth of the technology transfer the original equipment manufacturers can offer for design and construction at Indian shipyards, as well as equipment to be sourced from Indian industry for offsets and plans for training of Indian personnel in submarine design.

(Photo: Indian Navy)



http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?topicName=india&id=news/awx/2010/09/08/awx_09_08_2010_p0-252813.xml&headline=India Releases $11B RFI For Submarines

 

[keshtopatel]

The Yasen class subs are nuclear attacks submarines. We are buying conventional subs for now. Maybe in the future.

Are nuke subs available for sale to India?

 

[Daredevil]

No, nuke subs are not sold as it will raise eyebrows from all the concerned as it can carry strategic weapons like nukes. But nuclear subs can be leased as Russia leased Nerpa to India.

 

[keshtopatel]

By seeing the RFP it seems that IN does not want SSk to have VLS launchers. It can be safely assumed now that this task will remain with nuclear subs only.

Is it possible to launch BrahMos with torpedo tubes (650 mm tubes)? Will option be there to integrate nirbhay at alter stages?

BrahMos is too thick to fit into a standard 21-inch torpedo tube......

 

[keshtopatel]

No, nuke subs are not sold as it will raise eyebrows from all the concerned as it can carry strategic weapons like nukes. But nuclear subs can be leased as Russia leased Nerpa to India.

I know that, I was just quizzing him........I am aware of the MTCR guidelines, lease thingy is a loophole, the fruit of which both India and Russia are enjoying in the form of Nerpa lease......

I wanted him to respond first - but you spoiled the fun.......

 

[nrj]

I believe that given the current paucity of submarines we can ill afford to have delays in any deliveries of the new submarine, hence i would back the Rubin/Navantia S-1000 , true the normal S-1000 does not have the capability to launch SLCM's but given some time and money three is no reason we cannot MKIse the boat! buying the S-1000 would bring a unique advantage we can have three boats in construction at the same time one in Spain one in Russia and the third in India hence we will be able to add three submarines to the fleet in the same time that for any other option would be only one submarine!

Sir, correct me if wrong but S-1000 was bidding even in P-75A. The S-1000 solutions seems to be indeed good & can do wonders in speed of induction. Also, is the AIP solution in these subs will be nascent Russian one or from the Rubin Design Bureau? Thanks.

 

[keshtopatel]

Originally Posted by bengalraider
I believe that given the current paucity of submarines we can ill afford to have delays in any deliveries of the new submarine, hence i would back the Rubin/Navantia S-1000 , true the normal S-1000 does not have the capability to launch SLCM's but given some time and money three is no reason we cannot MKIse the boat! buying the S-1000 would bring a unique advantage we can have three boats in construction at the same time one in Spain one in Russia and the third in India hence we will be able to add three submarines to the fleet in the same time that for any other option would be only one submarine!

If it is Navantia-Spain, they make S-80!

The Joint development is between Rubin Design Bureau of Russia and Fincantieri of Italy..........

 

[nitesh]

BrahMos is too thick to fit into a standard 21-inch torpedo tube......

If you read my post, I am asking about 650 mm tubes not the 533mm ones.

 

[keshtopatel]

If you read my post, I am asking about 650 mm tubes not the 533mm ones.

Even 26 inch (rare) tube cant accomodate Brahmos......

 

[nitesh]

Even 26 inch (rare) tube cant accomodate Brahmos......

So what is the size needed? Can you please elaborate

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The Kilos from Russia are being refitted for the Brahmos,this is why there has been a delay in their delivery.

 

[sandeepdg]

Are nuke subs available for sale to India?

No, they aren't, dude. I said "maybe" in the future, nobody knows what's gonna happen in the future ! Anyway, we don't really need to buy a nuke sub, what we need to do is gain expertise from the Nerpa, and improve upon our Arihant design.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Is it possible to launch BrahMos with torpedo tubes (650 mm tubes)? Will option be there to integrate nirbhay at alter stages?

PIC is of PJ-10 vertical launch from Project -75 and BrahMos missiles on Lada class non-nuclear submarine Marquette. MAKS-2009.

New Delhi: India is almost ready with its undersea launch version of the supersonic BrahMos cruise missile and wants the Navy to help in preliminary test trials by the end of the year.

The Navy's help is being sought as the DRDO lacks a platform to undertake tests of the submarine launch BrahMos missile, which will put India among the few countries which have the capability to launch underwater supersonic missiles.

The Navy's present fleet of just upgraded Kilo class submarines do not have the capability to test fire such missiles, BrahMos Aerospace CEO A. Sivathanu Pillai said.

"We are in talks with the Navy to loan one of their expanded Kilo-class or some other submarine to undertake the tests," he said.

Tests in Russia

Alternately, New Delhi has also proposed that initial tests could be undertaken in Russian waters on a Russian naval platform.

"We are ready with the designs and looking for a platform to launch the missile from under the sea," Mr. Pillai said. — PTI

The Hindu : National : India gearing up for BrahMos submarine tests

A test of the vertically launched submarine version of the missile is planned off the coast of Orissa possibly sometime in May or June this year BrahMos CEO Dr A Sivathanu Pillai told the press during day 2 of DefExpo 2010

Brahmos Missile - a knol by Vijainder K Thakur



IT is very possible that Brahmos can be lunched by 533/650mm tubes, If so, than think what type of havoc a single Akula can do to a unsuspecting enemy fleet..