Project-75I class SSK Submarines

[VIP]

The public is against the nukes, just look when Abe got rid of article 9, the public backlash was huge. For a nuke program it will be massive

If they're still thinking about world war 2, they should actually build nukes. They have 1st hand experience of devastating effects of nukes and they must not want another attack on them from enemies like mad korea, to counter such madness they must have superior powers to put fear in enemies' minds.

 

[Bloom17]

He is asking for nuke bombs.

_____________________________________

They have the capacity and the capability to make a bomb at moments notice. It’s never assembled together until the need arises

 

[BON PLAN]

Japs should go nuke if they don't want to be the salami between the USA and chinland.
They have the tech and the industry to produce a viable and powerful military machinery which ain't just a mere US puppet.

The only reason for Japan to go for nuke is a nuclear able North Korea.

and unfortunatly I'm afraid all is going that way.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

A militarily powerful japan will make china piss its pants.Japan has the money, the technology and everything.

 

[TPFscopes]

A militarily powerful japan will make china piss its pants.Japan has the money, the technology and everything.

Rome can't be built in a day..

Right now china outclassed japan (without US as ally) in every military format. those days are gone..

 

[TPFscopes]

Lets back to the topic.

sharing some glossy media pamphlets

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Rome can't be built in a day..

Right now china outclassed japan (without US as ally) in every military format. those days are gone..

Japan have the industry for rapid militarisation and the money to acquire stuff on a urgent basis.

Even Japans move to militarise itself will give China nightmares. They will have too many powerful enemies in their region to hold them down.

 

[Sancho]

Some surprising (but yet unconfirmed) news were shared on Twitter today, that L&T has teamed up with Saab for the P75I tender. If true, Saab has put itself in a good position for another SPM tender of the government, with the prime Indian naval partner. The question however is, what is L&T's gain and why didn't they teamed up with more obvious choices from Russia or Germany?
DCNS most likely teaming up with Pipavav/Reliance, which other Indian privat partners are left for Russian Amur or German U214 subs?

 

[Willy2]

Some surprising (but yet unconfirmed) news were shared on Twitter today, that L&T has teamed up with Saab for the P75I tender. If true, Saab has put itself in a good position for another SPM tender of the government, with the prime Indian naval partner. The question however is, what is L&T's gain and why didn't they teamed up with more obvious choices from Russia or Germany?
DCNS most likely teaming up with Pipavav/Reliance, which other Indian privat partners are left for Russian Amur or German U214 subs?

This one name is enough to make the tweet "hoax".....If u check last few years , u would find countless company with which SAAB making partnership , yet they deliver nothing ...why ?
Most probably "propaganda queen" SAAB exaggerated any minor talks or they never exist from start ,spreading rumors is just a old school pressure creating tactic..
Thats why I have no respect towards SAAB....If it's invest 5% of it's money from propoganda/publicity campeign then it have it's own jet engine.

 

[Kalki_2018]

L&T build a nuke sub. They can make a SSK without teaming up with anyone. I hope P-75I is indigenous design with 8 Brahmos-M.

 

[Sancho]

This one name is enough to make the tweet "hoax".....If u check last few years , u would find countless company with which SAAB making partnership , yet they deliver nothing ...why ?
Most probably "propaganda queen" SAAB exaggerated any minor talks or they never exist from start ,spreading rumors is just a old school pressure creating tactic..
Thats why I have no respect towards SAAB....If it's invest 5% of it's money from propoganda/publicity campeign then it have it's own jet engine.

The interesting part here is not Saab, but L&T!

Just as Kalyani in the howitzer field, L&T is the only Indian privat player that would invest in own sub design and developments. So any decision they take wrt P75I, will be a crucial one for the future of Indian subs too.
Not to mention that they are production and integration partner of DRDOs AIP, which is meant to be part of the winning sub.

 

[cyclops]

Can someone tell me if this new secondary battery will improve the speed and range of the Varunastra?

DRDO Develops 250 KW high-power Silver Oxide-Zinc Torpedo Batteries
Published December 13, 2017 | By admin

SOURCE: Indrajit Majumdar / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

DRDO has developed 250 KWs Silver Oxide Zinc (AgOZn), both primary and secondary batteries for propulsion of heavy weight torpedo Varunastra

DRDO’s Varunastra, the first indigenous heavy weight ship launched anti-submarine electric torpedo.It is capable of targeting quiet and stealthy submarines, both in deep and littoral waters in intense counter measure environment . The battery, which is used for heavyweight torpedo propulsion, will enhance the propulsion characteristics of the weapon. This will help in increasing the speed of torpedoes due to increased power from the present 100 kW to 250 kW, almost within the same space.

The current density required for a high-powered battery is of the order of 200 mA/cm2. This demands usage of a large amount of silver per ampere hour, a major part of which remains unrealised. To achieve the high battery voltage, a large number of cells need to be connected in series. These complexities often result into generation of high heat during discharging of the battery.

By the end of the discharge, internal heat generated in the cells leads to the situation where the electrolyte starts boiling. This results in spillage of electrolyte and resistance drop in battery. High temperature generated internally affects battery’s life cycle and its separators also. This requires working out of cell design, active material characterisation, and optimal use of separator material.

DRDO has developed a 250 kW secondary battery consisting of zinc as anode, silver oxide as cathode, and potassium hydroxide as electrolyte. lt delivers 400 V on load at a discharge current of 625 A for a short duration of 5 min.

 

[Prashant12]

Mazagon Dock may bag $8-b P75I submarine project


Move will be a positive development for French shipbuilding major Naval Group with which the Indian shipyard has a partnership
NEW DELHI, APRIL 2

The $8-billion ‘Project-75 India’ programme by the Indian Navy that entails building six advanced submarines is likely to be grabbed by Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd (MDL) on a nomination basis even as private sector players are grappling with lack of orders.

The decision was taken last week at a meeting chaired by the Minister of Defence Nirmala Sitharaman where it was planned that the programme, also called as P75(I), will not be rolled out under Strategic Partnership (SP) Policy in the Defence Procurement Procedure 2016 as was initially decided, sources told BusinessLine.

“The Defence Ministry has now decided to withdraw the P75(I) Submarine Programme from the SP Policy that was originally mooted by former Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and award the contract on a nomination basis to MDL,” said an official, who refused to be identified.

Technically the decision comes as a positive development for French shipbuilding conglomerate Naval Group with which MDL already has partnership under transfer of technology (ToT) arrangement for the ongoing $3.75-billion ‘Project 75’ or P-75l, in which six Scorpene-class submarines are being built.

The decision is expected to sound a death knell for players like Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and Reliance whose shipyards at Kattupalli and Pipavav respectively are reeling under heavy losses on account of lack of orders from the Defence Ministry, sources said.

“The private shipyards have become loss-making units with a turnover of ₹1,000 crore or less. There were expectations that the P75(I) will come to the private players under the SP policy but it seems that the plan is now shelved,” said an industry representative, who refused to be identified.

The P75(I) programme was announced in October 2014. Thereafter, in 2016 the Navy issued a request for information (RFI) to six global submarine makers seeking to build six advanced submarines with air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology, which enables the submarines to stay under water for a longer period. Besides, the proposed submarines will have a vertical launch system with a brand new cruise missile that will be used as the main anti-ship missile.

The six players which received the RFI includes — ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (Germany), Naval Group (France), Navantia (Spain), SAAB (Sweden), Rubin Design Bureau-Amur Shipyard (Russia and Italy), Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries (Japan).

However, in October 2017 when the Ministry was being headed by Finance and Corporate Affairs Minister Arun Jaitley the government got responses to the RFI from France, Germany, Russia and Sweden.

Subsequently, the Defence Ministry started drafting the expressions of interest (EoI) to be issued to the Indian private sector shipyards for selection of the strategic partner with the appointment of SBI Caps as advisor. The final award for these contracts were aimed at creating submarine-building capabilities in the private sector to augment the pace of production that ails the government shipyards.

However, it seems now that Minister Sitharaman has decided to undo all that. Interestingly, the decision comes within less than a month of the French President Emmanuel Macron’s visit to India. The French, according to sources, pushed for the project aggressively during the bilateral meeting between
Macron and Prime Minister Narendra Modi.


https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...-b-p75i-submarine-project/article23416551.ece

 

[Kalki_2018]

Is that going to be based on scorpene with DRDO AIP and VLS? L&T should be give the 6 SSN deal and Reliance the 8 P-28A

 

[Kalki_2018]

Come to think of it 8 billion for 6 subs is a complete waste of money. Scrap it and make it all SSN's. 12 in all instead of these useless SSK's.

 

[binayak95]

Come to think of it 8 billion for 6 subs is a complete waste of money. Scrap it and make it all SSN's. 12 in all instead of these useless SSK's.

No. Our SSN tech has not matured enough to become efficient sub hunters. Better to have AIP equipped SSKs (which have, for all practical purposes, the same endurance as SSNs). SSKs are inherently more stealthy than SSNs, AIP equipped SSKs, even more so.

 

[aditya10r]

No. Our SSN tech has not matured enough to become efficient sub hunters. Better to have AIP equipped SSKs (which have for all practical purposes, the same endurance as SSNs). SSKs are inherently more stealthy than SSNs, AIP equipped SSKs, even more so.

A single SSN will cost in north of 1 billion usd,I think at max only 5-6 ssncan be managed in 8 billion USD.

 

[binayak95]

Mazagon Dock may bag $8-b P75I submarine project


Move will be a positive development for French shipbuilding major Naval Group with which the Indian shipyard has a partnership
NEW DELHI, APRIL 2

The $8-billion ‘Project-75 India’ programme by the Indian Navy that entails building six advanced submarines is likely to be grabbed by Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd (MDL) on a nomination basis even as private sector players are grappling with lack of orders.

The decision was taken last week at a meeting chaired by the Minister of Defence Nirmala Sitharaman where it was planned that the programme, also called as P75(I), will not be rolled out under Strategic Partnership (SP) Policy in the Defence Procurement Procedure 2016 as was initially decided, sources told BusinessLine.

“The Defence Ministry has now decided to withdraw the P75(I) Submarine Programme from the SP Policy that was originally mooted by former Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar and award the contract on a nomination basis to MDL,” said an official, who refused to be identified.

Technically the decision comes as a positive development for French shipbuilding conglomerate Naval Group with which MDL already has partnership under transfer of technology (ToT) arrangement for the ongoing $3.75-billion ‘Project 75’ or P-75l, in which six Scorpene-class submarines are being built.

The decision is expected to sound a death knell for players like Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and Reliance whose shipyards at Kattupalli and Pipavav respectively are reeling under heavy losses on account of lack of orders from the Defence Ministry, sources said.

“The private shipyards have become loss-making units with a turnover of ₹1,000 crore or less. There were expectations that the P75(I) will come to the private players under the SP policy but it seems that the plan is now shelved,” said an industry representative, who refused to be identified.

The P75(I) programme was announced in October 2014. Thereafter, in 2016 the Navy issued a request for information (RFI) to six global submarine makers seeking to build six advanced submarines with air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology, which enables the submarines to stay under water for a longer period. Besides, the proposed submarines will have a vertical launch system with a brand new cruise missile that will be used as the main anti-ship missile.

The six players which received the RFI includes — ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (Germany), Naval Group (France), Navantia (Spain), SAAB (Sweden), Rubin Design Bureau-Amur Shipyard (Russia and Italy), Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries (Japan).

However, in October 2017 when the Ministry was being headed by Finance and Corporate Affairs Minister Arun Jaitley the government got responses to the RFI from France, Germany, Russia and Sweden.

Subsequently, the Defence Ministry started drafting the expressions of interest (EoI) to be issued to the Indian private sector shipyards for selection of the strategic partner with the appointment of SBI Caps as advisor. The final award for these contracts were aimed at creating submarine-building capabilities in the private sector to augment the pace of production that ails the government shipyards.

However, it seems now that Minister Sitharaman has decided to undo all that. Interestingly, the decision comes within less than a month of the French President Emmanuel Macron’s visit to India. The French, according to sources, pushed for the project aggressively during the bilateral meeting between
Macron and Prime Minister Narendra Modi.


https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...-b-p75i-submarine-project/article23416551.ece

BS paid hit job of an article.
You don't expect the 75I order to be given to novice shipyards with no experience of building anything approaching the level of complexity of a SSK, do you?

And what is this nonsense about lack of orders? Both Pipavav and L&T's shipyards are busy with Navy and Coast Guard orders for OPVs and Patrol Vessels. The IN is handholding the shipyards, giving them successively more complicated orders - starting with FACs, to PVs to OPVs and in the near future, the Krivak IV FFGs and the LHDs.

The industry cannot ask for a more cooperative customer than the IN (and the ICG). The secret to economic viability lies in export. They already know how to build OPVs, that market is a booming one, export opportunities are plenty. If GSL and GRSE can export ships, these shipyards certainly can as well.

 

[binayak95]

A single SSN will cost in north of 1 billion usd,I think at max only 5-6 ssncan be managed in 8 billion USD.

Including spares, refits and maintenance contract, lifetime cost of SSNs will escalate to beyond 2 billion USD - which is why they will be built only to serve as escorts to our SSBNs and as a first strike option (LACM)

 

[Kshithij]

Come to think of it 8 billion for 6 subs is a complete waste of money. Scrap it and make it all SSN's. 12 in all instead of these useless SSK's.

8 billion dollars is indeed a bit excessive considering it is a small submarine of 1.5-2 ton. Also, even France which sells scorpene to others, does not use diesel submarnes itself. It operates nuclear submarines only. So, you have a point in stating that nuclear SSN should be used instead of diesel SSK. However, for Indian usage, the area is mainly Arabian Sea, Bay of Bengal which are not big areas. So, the requirement of endurance does not arise. Stealth matters more here. This is where diesel submarines trump.

BS paid hit job of an article.
You don't expect the 75I order to be given to novice shipyards with no experience of building anything approaching the level of complexity of a SSK, do you?

And what is this nonsense about lack of orders? Both Pipavav and L&T's shipyards are busy with Navy and Coast Guard orders for OPVs and Patrol Vessels. The IN is handholding the shipyards, giving them successively more complicated orders - starting with FACs, to PVs to OPVs and in the near future, the Krivak IV FFGs and the LHDs.

The industry cannot ask for a more cooperative customer than the IN (and the ICG). The secret to economic viability lies in export. They already know how to build OPVs, that market is a booming one, export opportunities are plenty. If GSL and GRSE can export ships, these shipyards certainly can as well.

If P75I is also an imported project like P75, whereby France sells most of the parts, I don't see the problem in privatising the project. If MDL is doing it, I expect it to be fully indigenous. Otherwise, there is no point in calling MDL as experienced. If the manufacturing and construction is not indigenous, there is no point for calling something as indigenous.

Including spares, refits and maintenance contract, lifetime cost of SSNs will escalate to beyond 2 billion USD - which is why they will be built only to serve as escorts to our SSBNs and as a first strike option (LACM)

This is just false news. If the entire submarine manufacturing is done in India, the cost will not be counted in dollars. Also, the cost will depend on the scale of manufacturing.

Also, I don't seem to unerstand how a diesel submarine that is just 1.5-2 tonnes in weight cost similar to a nuclear submarine that weighs 6tonnes.