Project- 75(I). Next gen subs. RFP issued

MonaLazy

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You forget in your list the drawings of the M51 missile with its warheads, and maybe Miss France for a one year lease?
:pound::laugh::pound::laugh:
I think we are fully self-sufficient in SLBMs (K5 & upcoming K6). As for Miss France- I'm pretty certain that's going to be embargoed by French law since it represents the absolute epitome of their national reproductive tech over several millennia! :pound:

 

Lonewolf

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I think we are fully self-sufficient in SLBMs (K5 & upcoming K6). As for Miss France- I'm pretty certain that's going to be embargoed by French law since it represents the absolute epitome of their national reproductive tech over several millennia! :pound:

Lease ???? (Of miss France )

Btw we may see movement on p75i this year
 

MonaLazy

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Btw we may see movement on p75i this year
How so? Between an IN unrelenting on requirements, unwilling to take risks (look at how the Japs spent money experimenting- putting out real subs in the water with AIP before they realised it was not worth it), strapped for cash, foreign collaborators jittery about liability clauses or tech transfer to SP under a flawed SPM or simply not having the tech at all it will die a painful death. IN wants technically mature high tech with customisations, at low cost & 0 risk- while also spending 0 on R & D- that's an impossible equation.


Please read & weep:

 

Love Charger

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How so? Between an IN unrelenting on requirements, unwilling to take risks (look at how the Japs spent money experimenting- putting out real subs in the water with AIP before they realised it was not worth it), strapped for cash, foreign collaborators jittery about liability clauses or tech transfer to SP under a flawed SPM or simply not having the tech at all it will die a painful death. IN wants technically mature high tech with customisations, at low cost & 0 risk- while also spending 0 on R & D- that's an impossible equation.


Please read & weep:

Order more scorpenes
 

MonaLazy

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Order more scorpenes
Won't cut it simply because the aim of P75 & P75I was to be the last ever imports of Western and Russian subs respectively (Western subs were allowed into P75I later, once IN realised Russians don't have the tech) and to give us the total capability to locally make DE subs. How to get AIP, LIB & LACM VLS, pumpjet etc.? P75I is a bigger boat and DRDOs AIP even if proven by 2026 will have to be scaled up for a ~3000T boat and then years of testing it in simulated conditions on the ground.
 

Haldilal

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OK Nibbiars,
AMX40 was a nice tank indeed. Not too heavy, with stabilized gun... a better tank than Leopard 1.

Unfortunately at those time France was eyeing the Leclerc. heavier, deadlier, costlier....
Ya'll Nibbiars and also better range, armour, Sight, HP than the T 72's.
 

Lonewolf

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Won't cut it simply because the aim of P75 & P75I was to be the last ever imports of Western and Russian subs respectively (Western subs were allowed into P75I later, once IN realised Russians don't have the tech) and to give us the total capability to locally make DE subs. How to get AIP, LIB & LACM VLS, pumpjet etc.? P75I is a bigger boat and DRDOs AIP even if proven by 2026 will have to be scaled up for a ~3000T boat and then years of testing it in simulated conditions on the ground.
Shortfin barracuda is what I think we will get or from Korea we may get a good deal , soko is trying to bid more competitive as we have seen in Indonesian tender , they will surely try to build a reputation
 

BON PLAN

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No more scorpenes will come. It is as clear as daylight from the day data leaks surfaced
Absolutely false.
The leaks (organized by our German cousins... to prevent France to win in Australia) was only about marketing data.
It's not because you know that this kind of car has a 150HP motor, a 6 shifts gear and air conditionning that you can extrapolate the maximuim speed, average fuel consumption and interval between overhaul.
 

JBH22

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We should have gone with Amx tanks of yours , but we went with t 72 tanks in 80s
Again a purely political decision
During 80s we were still socialist economy and could not afford many things. Soviet used to provide us high tech equipment in exchange of agricultural produce. Our requirement are in thousand and unless you are US, one cannot afford western equipment in those numbers.
T 72 is a good investment, we had some advantage until Pakistan came with T 80.
 

WolfPack86

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Russia to not bid for India’s Project 75I submarine proposal: Reports
“The Russian side has previously confirmed its interest in participation in this programme and suggested a platform based on the design of Project 677E submarine Amur-1650. However, after receiving and studying the RFP finalising terms and conditions of the tender, the Russian side has decided not to participate in the tender for technical reasons,” the ET report quoted a Rosoboronexport spokesperson as saying.

Russia has confirmed that it will not participate in the tender for India’s Project 75I due to technical reasons. They have confirmed that the Indian government has been communicated their decision, as per a report by the Economic Times (ET).

“The Russian side has previously confirmed its interest in participation in this programme and suggested a platform based on the design of Project 677E submarine Amur-1650. However, after receiving and studying the RFP finalising terms and conditions of the tender, the Russian side has decided not to participate in the tender for technical reasons,” the ET report quoted a Rosoboronexport spokesperson as saying.

The Russian side has, however, offered to export its Kilo-class conventional submarines. “To reinforce the Indian submarine fleet, the Russian side has offered both supply of new diesel-electric submarines of time-tested Project 636, and supply of Project 877 submarines after their withdrawal from service with the Russian Navy and upgrade,” the spokesperson told ET.

Project 75I is a planned class of 6 diesel-electric submarines at the cost of ₹43,000 crore. In July 2021, a Request for Proposal (RFP) was issued by the government of India for the manufacturing of the submarines under a “strategic partnership” model. Larsen & Tourbo (L&T) and Mazagon Dock Limited (MDL) were two Indian finalists shortlisted by the government for the project. For the selection for the foreign vendor, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) (Germany), Navantia of Spain, Naval Group of France, and Daewoo Shipping & Marine Engineering (DSME) (South Korea) and Russia’s Rubin Design Bureau were originally listed as contenders. However, the project has been hit by delays, including Indian and foreign companies asking for extended time to finalise their proposals.

Contenders from Germany and South Korea have raised technical concerns related to liability clauses, transfer of technology (over Air Independent Propulsion system) and budgetary allocations with the government, the ET report further says. TKMS reportedly withdrew from the race last year. .
 

WolfPack86

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India’s ₹43,000 crore submarine project P-75I faces multiple delays.
The Indian Navy’s wait for six conventional diesel-electric submarines under the project name P-75(I), is likely get extended, pushing the acquisition plans forward by almost a year. The ₹43,000 project is part of the 30-year submarine building plan of the government that began in 1999.

The latest delay in Project-75(India) (P-75(I)) is due to the stringent deadline put forth in the request for proposal (RPF) issued by the Ministry of Defence in July 2021. The government had shortlisted five foreign submarine makers who were to partner with either one of the two Indian submarine makers to produce the vessels locally.

The government had to push back the bid submission date from November 2021 to June 2022 after the majority of foreign participating companies found it difficult to meet the first deadline, a top official of India’s largest submarine builder said.

Field evaluation trials of the submarines were expected to begin in mid-April 2022 if the bids come in November itself. Further delay is expected to happen as the government is yet to issue approvals to participating foreign companies.

Vice Admiral Narayan Prasad, Chairman and Managing Director, Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders said, “Now the revised schedule for bid submission is at the end of June 2022. And whilst everyone is trying their level best, the government approvals for the respective countries have still not been fully processed and my assumption would be these are still susceptible to some more delays by a couple of months.”

Naval Group, France, TKMS, Germany, JSC ROE, Russia, Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering, South Korea and Navantia, Spain were the shortlisted foreign original equipment manufacturers (OEM). These had to choose between Mazagon Dock Shipbuilder and Larsen and Toubro. The order for all the six submarines will go to the lowest bidder (L1) and will not be split between the two Indian companies.

If the bid submission takes place in June, it will take another two years for the government to consider it before orders are placed by the end of 2024.

“The RFP was issued in July 2021 and the timelines given for bid submission was mid November 21. RFP had very, very stringent timelines. Looking at the response from the majority of these foreign OEMs they did not find it easy going based on the timeline and the complexity of the entire program. So, they had to revise these timelines multiple times,” Prasad added.

“Who is going to be our collaborator that has not been fructified, but certainly there is a sound potential with both DSME Korea and TKMS Germany, they are the only collaborators compliant in terms of timelines as per RFP. They are yet to come up with their bid submission and we are waiting for that,” Prasad added.

Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders has the capacity to simultaneously construct 11 submarines at its Mumbai facility. The company is presently building INS Vagsheer, which is the sixth and the last of the Kalavari-class Scorpene submarines under Project 75 (P75).

Four submarines of this class - INS Kalavari, INS Karanj, INS Khanderi, INS Vela - have been commissioned into the Indian Navy while a fifth, INS Vagir, began its sea trials earlier this month.

“Four submarines have already been delivered and the trials of the fifth submarine is going on. By the end of this year the fifth submarine will also be delivered. With regards to the sixth submarine, we are planning its launch in March or April and this vessel would be planned for commissioning somewhere in the end of 2023,” Prasad added.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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India’s ₹43,000 crore submarine project P-75I faces multiple delays.
The Indian Navy’s wait for six conventional diesel-electric submarines under the project name P-75(I), is likely get extended, pushing the acquisition plans forward by almost a year. The ₹43,000 project is part of the 30-year submarine building plan of the government that began in 1999.

The latest delay in Project-75(India) (P-75(I)) is due to the stringent deadline put forth in the request for proposal (RPF) issued by the Ministry of Defence in July 2021. The government had shortlisted five foreign submarine makers who were to partner with either one of the two Indian submarine makers to produce the vessels locally.

The government had to push back the bid submission date from November 2021 to June 2022 after the majority of foreign participating companies found it difficult to meet the first deadline, a top official of India’s largest submarine builder said.

Field evaluation trials of the submarines were expected to begin in mid-April 2022 if the bids come in November itself. Further delay is expected to happen as the government is yet to issue approvals to participating foreign companies.

Vice Admiral Narayan Prasad, Chairman and Managing Director, Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders said, “Now the revised schedule for bid submission is at the end of June 2022. And whilst everyone is trying their level best, the government approvals for the respective countries have still not been fully processed and my assumption would be these are still susceptible to some more delays by a couple of months.”

Naval Group, France, TKMS, Germany, JSC ROE, Russia, Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering, South Korea and Navantia, Spain were the shortlisted foreign original equipment manufacturers (OEM). These had to choose between Mazagon Dock Shipbuilder and Larsen and Toubro. The order for all the six submarines will go to the lowest bidder (L1) and will not be split between the two Indian companies.

If the bid submission takes place in June, it will take another two years for the government to consider it before orders are placed by the end of 2024.

“The RFP was issued in July 2021 and the timelines given for bid submission was mid November 21. RFP had very, very stringent timelines. Looking at the response from the majority of these foreign OEMs they did not find it easy going based on the timeline and the complexity of the entire program. So, they had to revise these timelines multiple times,” Prasad added.

“Who is going to be our collaborator that has not been fructified, but certainly there is a sound potential with both DSME Korea and TKMS Germany, they are the only collaborators compliant in terms of timelines as per RFP. They are yet to come up with their bid submission and we are waiting for that,” Prasad added.

Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders has the capacity to simultaneously construct 11 submarines at its Mumbai facility. The company is presently building INS Vagsheer, which is the sixth and the last of the Kalavari-class Scorpene submarines under Project 75 (P75).

Four submarines of this class - INS Kalavari, INS Karanj, INS Khanderi, INS Vela - have been commissioned into the Indian Navy while a fifth, INS Vagir, began its sea trials earlier this month.

“Four submarines have already been delivered and the trials of the fifth submarine is going on. By the end of this year the fifth submarine will also be delivered. With regards to the sixth submarine, we are planning its launch in March or April and this vessel would be planned for commissioning somewhere in the end of 2023,” Prasad added.
Just cancel it and place a repeat order of 6 Scorpenes.
 

Arjun Mk1A

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Regarding this P75I. It is officially going back to re-release of RFI. Since single vendor is not strict no-go for us.

1. Maybe we can dust out the HDW sub ToT documents and try to upgrade it. ( Something like how our OFB take the Bofors Blueprint suddenly)
2. May be give some additional orders for Kalvari class to sustain the decline of Subs for some years.

Questions
1. Japan uses Li batteries for their subs. What is the difference between the Li battery used in Subs and in a EV ?
2. Does we have ToT for Kilo class or we just bought it from Russia?
 

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